Which Engine Should be Used?

[Fox McCloud]

 

First off, this is only gathering information; just because the results are one way, or another, doesn't mean we are going to act on it (doesn't mean we aren't, either).

 

Hypothetically speaking though, should we rely on a single engine, which should we utilize? The Singularity Engine or the Supermatter Engine?

 

 

Please, also, feel free to share why you think one should be used over the other.

 

[Fj45]

 

Mapping wise, the space where the SM currently is would be a great spot for the mechanics workshop (its current position is a nightmare) and maybe even the engineering outpost shuttle. (would give it faaar more use)

 

Plus the SM is just broken. It needs a large code overhaul (and from what I have heard the code is a mess) and maybe some major mapping changes. Atmos also needs some changes to allow from proper SM gas cooling as currently you cannot really setup the waste loop AND mess with gas mixtures and temperatures.

 

Space also needs to be cold again (I do not care about "realsim," gameplay massively trumps it here) so the damn space loop is useful and venting the SM has some chance of cooling it down enough.

 

[Fj45]

Oh, and I should add that if the code was changed, I am all for keeping both engines. Currently though, ditch the SM.

[mrbits]

 

Coding aside, I see it like this...

 

Supermatter Engine!

Pros:

1. A little more technical in its execution (so, y'know, engineers can play the game)

2. When it explodes it only ("only") makes people sick and maybe die a bit from radiation

3. If tossed away, a new supermatter crystal can be ordered

4. If destroyed, the supermatter room can be rebuilt reliably (I think)

5. Has a "Warning! Reactor meltdown imminent!" thing on the go when exploding, which is super-cool (not a real point, I just like it a lot)

 

Cons:

1. Complexity of system (compared to the singularity) causes regular accidents among new engineers

 

Singularity!

Pros:

1. A little more straightforward in its setup and execution (ideal for low-pop rounds or new/understaffed engineers)

 

Cons:

1. When the singularity escapes and runs into the station, the round is OVER as the damage is simply too great to repair

2. When the singularity escapes, the whole server begins to lag

3. When the singularity is let loose, the players responsible are BANNED

 

Admitedly I haven't played engineering as much as others so some of my info regarding supermatter's safety or complexity may be inaccurate. That being said, I HAVE done a lot of work with the singularity as well as having witnessed numerous instances of players getting into shit for misbehaving around the thing - accidentally or otherwise.

 

IN CONCLUSION: I like the supermatter because it's cool and only kills characters when it malfunctions, as opposed to the singularity which swallows up whole BYOND accounts.

 

[Fj45]

 

The singo gets out maaybe every ten rounds or so. Even that may be far to often. SM has its warning go off just about 7/10 shifts. And then in nearly all cases, the SM does go up.

 

And when the SM does go up?

Getting sudden toxin damage and seeing shitty hallucinations and then just falling dead is not much fun. You cannot run from radiation. The explosion is tiny and boring. (Entire engine room should erupt into flames, and then there should be the main explosion plus several other scattered explosions (So most of engineering would be very damaged)

 

And it doesn't matter how possible it is to repair the damage from the SM going up, in practice it would take an hour. I am not joking. That number of pipes and walls is not easy to place.

 

[Kluys]

 

I feel like we are leaving one important power source out of here which are the solars

Pros:

- safe

- can be directly wired into the grid withouth much trouble providing enough power for the station + a bit of a buffer which you can use to slowly charge all the smes units

- not easily abused by antags

-needs alot more wires to be cut before you can cut the entire station out of the solar power (engineering has two outgoing wires that you can cut to cut the entire station out of the engineering grid)

Cons:

-not THAT much energy

-take longer to set up

 

[Bone White]

If the singularity warned the station when it reached 7x7 stage, and this message could be disabled somehow by the CE / a traitor, then I'd choose the singularity. However because of the lack of warning of the singularity, I choose the supermatter every time

[Flipping Out]

Off the top of my head, Singularity, as it doesn't have the stupid messages when its gets borked, and it gives traitors a spectacular way to call the shuttle. As well as the fact that it doesn't ALWAYS go to the station, sometimes it goes down, SM always affects the station.

[mrbits]

 

... and it gives traitors a spectacular way to call the shuttle.

Spectacular, sure, but will also get you banned.

 

[BadApple797]

 

A nice as it would be to use the supermatter, with all the cool modifications you can make, it would get ejected at least every third round.

 

 

and really at this point it doesn't matter, because the station never loses power unless an engi traitor uses a power sink (in which case they sabotage the power supply anyway)

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

There is only one valid answer to this question. Supermatter!

 

The singularity is a 100% save engine. It runs on it's own without any supervision. There is zero chance for it to fail on it's own, traitors are not allowed to use it and if they would be it would end the round because of lag and unrepairable destruction (certain things just cannot be repaired or replaced).

 

It's boring, stop trying to make the station super save. It's the same problem i talked about in my atmos tech post, this is space station 13 for skreeks sake! Shit happens, people fuck up, the station deals with it. Random stuff happening makes RP richer!

 

The supermatter going up is slow, useable by traitors and it does not force a round to end! It leave the station in working condition and the solar arrays can be used as backup. It's not like the solar Array couldn't handle the station power requirements with ease, people are just to lazy to set them up whene there are two other engines. And with a little work from engineers and atmos techs, the supermatter could be made super secure, this provides engineers and atmos techs with some new work. Also i think the supermatter should be a joint venture between atmos techs and engineers (Access for both!)

 

I tolerate the existance of the singularity while there is also supermatter, but singularity alone, fuck that!

 

[PJB3005]

 

TeG, because it's the engine that allows for the most tinkering, AND it allows atmos to help out aswell

 

else, SM, for tinkering, and actually being able to be used as a traitor tool

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

A nice as it would be to use the supermatter, with all the cool modifications you can make, it would get ejected at least every third round.

 

 

and really at this point it doesn't matter, because the station never loses power unless an engi traitor uses a power sink (in which case they sabotage the power supply anyway)

 

I'll have to double-check, but I strongly suspect that two things happened to cause this:

 

(1) SMES charge was increased (can't confirm).

(2) The "crap cell" charge was increased (this I know happened).

 

End result is that it takes 30-50 minutes before you start noticing power going out when before it was ~12-16.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

I'll have to double-check, but I strongly suspect that two things happened to cause this:(1) SMES charge was increased (can't confirm).(2) The "crap cell" charge was increased (this I know happened).End result is that it takes 30-50 minutes before you start noticing power going out when before it was ~12-16.

 

Are you talking about the charge rate or the max engery stored?

 

I think it's the simple fact that we have a huge amount energy storage on the station. 3 SMES at singulairty, 3 at supermatter, 1 in Engineering, 1 for the AI, 4 at the solars. If they are all filled up there is loads of engery stored, and the station requires only like 60kW to run. Just think about how long the small APCs batteries hold out at a power shortage (except for very power hungry areas) and then put that into relation of how much energy a SMES stores.

 

The default charge of the SMES at round begin can hold the station for a good while, fully charged SMES + fully charged APCs can hold out a very long time. Considering how much energy the singularity blasts out, the SMES are full in no time.

 

If the max energy stored per APCs batteries has gone up, that should also make a noticable difference considering the amout of APCs.

 

[Bone White]

I'd be in favour of dropping the initial charge in the SMES / APCs to allow power sinks to be more effective, and make Engineering a more required position to be filled.

[Fj45]

 

There is only one valid answer to this question. Supermatter!

 

The singularity is a 100% save engine. It runs on it's own without any supervision. There is zero chance for it to fail on it's own, traitors are not allowed to use it and if they would be it would end the round because of lag and unrepairable destruction (certain things just cannot be repaired or replaced).

 

 

The entire point of the singo is that it rarely gets out (power failure, sabotage, space cows, incompetence) but when it does, IT IS THE WORST POSSIBLE thing to happen!

 

[BadApple797]

 

 

End result is that it takes 30-50 minutes before you start noticing power going out when before it was ~12-16.

Well one round a scientist and NT req stole a shield genrator. My response was to cut off power, hoping their APC would simply lose charge in a matter of moments, but it seemed to just sit pretty on 97% despite the fact that it had load of like, 600 000 watts

 

[Allfd]

 

I like the idea of something that needs to be contently monitored perhaps with the trade off of not being unrecoverable with a lapse of supervision. The set it and forget it nature of the singularity is boring, you never have an emergency with the singularity that an engineer can fix or in many cases could have prevented after it is setup and working properly. Once things go wrong they just sort of have gone wrong.

 

I like the idea of a complex engine with a bunch of interaction and the shiny control room that would go with it, with bright flashing lights and radiation hazard signs everywhere. In a low population round without a dedicated engineering team perhaps falling back to solars could be an acceptable solution. As an engineer I want to feel like I exist to do more than replace broken windows, I need buttons, I need dials, and I need levers. Also those first buttons must have other buttons inside them.

 

I can dream can’t I?

 

[Nomzy]

 

singulo because it's fast to set up, easy to watch and pretty cool

and i'm not a filthy damn heretic

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

The entire point of the singo is that it rarely gets out (power failure, sabotage, space cows, incompetence) but when it does, IT IS THE WORST POSSIBLE thing to happen!

 

That's excatly my point, the Singularity does not provide anything in terms of gameplay except for the initial setup. If you set power to 0 and turn it on it will never starve and never grow. Again, boring, why have it at all?

 

 

So much for the normal operation, how does it break out?

 

There are basicly two reasons:

 

- A engineer fucks up the initial setup, e.g. missed a part in the containment or put the power too high for too long.

Result: Round ends before it started, no gameplay, no fun and a waste of time.

 

- A traitor is actually allowed to release it (i would assume without admin permission he is not allowed to release it)

Result: Also forced a round to end due to the fact that the singulairty almost allways flat out deletes critical (non replaceable) parts of the station (e.g. Atmospherics gas storage tanks) and usually comes with loads of lag. I would argue there are much more "fun" ways to end a round.

 

 

The supermatter is also set up fairly quick, does require care and can if you are willing to put the work in, you can make it also self sustaining. Especially if it would be placed where the singulairty is now, near atmospherics. Several people improving the engine allows for RP and can create friendships or hate relationships, which if not taken to a grief level, does improve gameplay and makes the round more interessing.

 

If the supermatter goes boom, it has this nice warnings and does not force rounds to end. If people are somewhat clever, then they should gravitate towards the medbay and the chemistry should produce anti toxin pills. But if the round is already on the edge, then the supermatter melt event could tip it over and would also force a round to end. But it's allways in the hands of the crew and not some random roll as to where the singularity goes to.

 

Also the main reason as to why the supermatter goes critical, is that most engineers simply shoot it to often with the emitters and put it on a very hard to control level. It's not that it is to complicated to control, but players are to lazy to read even the easiest instructions. Just create a little note with the basics of setting up supermatter:

 

- Fill the system with one or two nitrogen tanks

- Wait a little (like one minute) to let the gas cool down

- Turn emitter on

- Shoot the supermatter 3 or 4 times with one emitter

- Turn emitter off

- Profit

 

If that's to difficult or you want a engine that you don't need to care about (e.g. only one engineer online) then you can simply set up the good old solar arrays.

 

singulo because it's fast to set up, easy to watch and pretty cool

and i'm not a filthy damn heretic

Is that the player Nomzy or admin Nomzy speaking?

 

[SK4.0e004]

 

That oversized piece of faintly glimmering rubble can not even dream of comparing itself to the might of the Immortal Lord Singuloth. That stone is made of pure hate and destroys everything it touches, just a glance at it is enough to make your mind squirm in pain, and to make insanity crawl and grow in your head. Overfeed it slightly and it will immediately use that additional power to angrily and violently attempt to kill every single liveform aboard the station, it is the enemy of life, and you are foolishly trying to contain and harness it's ruinous power.

 

The Immortal Lord Singuloth in His benignancy and wisdom has gifted to mankind the gravitational singularity, a holy symbol of His sacrifice for men. It's power is pure, clean, it even feeds it's own containment, peacefully spinning in a calm whirl of energy, obediently serving humanity without the need of being constantly watched or corrected. When it escapes it's containment is only due to a human error or sabotage, of someone who ignored the activation protocols taught by the Lord, blatantly disobeying His wise will.

But the single most important function of the gravitational singularity, is to be a vessel for the Lord Himself in the dire event when the Dark Nemesis rises. The Endless Hate, The Nefarious Lord, The Enemy of All, The Great Unholy One, The Destroyer, The False Singuloth, Nar-Sie. When he manages to subjugate enough minds to it's twisted will, and enters our realm to destroy everything and devour the souls of the living, then Lord Singuloth awakens to protect His people. He takes control of the singularity, possessing it to enter our reality, breaks the containment and rises to His full power to banish The First Heretic back into it's own Hell.

 

Could you say the same of that "Supermatter"?

 

All Hail Lord Singuloth.

 

[Spacemanspark]

ALL HAIL LORD SINGULOTH.

[belarion]

 

I honestly prefer the SM, I think its cooler and less of a hassle, and its not even that complicated to set up (just read the damn manual Jesus).

Sure its a bit bland feature wise but that's just a minor let down.

 

[Eldrin-Kanthos]

ALL HAIL LORD SINGULOTH.

[Nomzy]

 

singulo because it's fast to set up, easy to watch and pretty cool

and i'm not a filthy damn heretic

 

Is that the player Nomzy or admin Nomzy speaking?

 

i hope i kept my personality as a player, so i'd say both.