Which Engine Should be Used?

[Mark9013100]

Polls are terrible because you're only going to get a very small fraction of the community to vote.

[mrbits]

 

Polls are terrible because you're only going to get a very small fraction of the community to vote.

So long as the fraction who vote are a representative sample of the player base aboard the NCS Cyberiad then the poll can still be informative - unless we have some reason to believe that people who post on forums are more likely to favour one engine type over the other?

 

[Taaketa]

I vote for Green Energy! None of this filty radiation stuff. Solar power all the way!

[belarion]

 

I vote for Green Energy! None of this filty radiation stuff. Solar power all the way!

The best thing about the SM is that you can power it by throwing people into it...

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

So long as the fraction who vote are a representative sample of the player base aboard the NCS Cyberiad then the poll can still be informative - unless we have some reason to believe that people who post on forums are more likely to favour one engine type over the other?

 

Let's be real here, the people that make the effort to go into the Forum are usually more involved and care more about the game. I would assume most people would just go with singulairty, because they know how to work it, or they never play engineering and just want a super stable engine.

 

At first you might think: why is that bad? Issn't it what the majority wants? Well, think about what happens if there is so mechanic in question that involves science. I personally almost never play science, i am not the person that should have a say in what happens with science because i am tempted to just pick the one that i would like best while playing Engineering or Security. Like science not having access to anything dangerous, so i have a easier job in security.

 

At least in the forum people are more reasonable, so you see a good amount of people actually arguing as for why a certain engine should stay.

 

So i am generally against polls because recent gaming history showed that blindly listening to the playerbase does not necessarily result in a better game, but in a casual game. That's not why i personally play SS13, i play it because it's deep and has a lot of very great mechanics most games today miss and it hurts to see machanics beeing dumbed down. I don't mind involving the community into a discussion and listening to arguements but a simple click to vote button does not seem useful to me.

 

[mrbits]

 

Let's be real here, the people that make the effort to go into the Forum are usually more involved and care more about the game. I would assume most people would just go with singulairty, because they know how to work it, or they never play engineering and just want a super stable engine.

 

At first you might think: why is that bad? Issn't it what the majority wants? Well, think about what happens if there is so mechanic in question that involves science. I personally almost never play science, i am not the person that should have a say in what happens with science because i am tempted to just pick the one that i would like best while playing Engineering or Security. Like science not having access to anything dangerous, so i have a easier job in security.

 

At least in the forum people are more reasonable, so you see a good amount of people actually arguing as for why a certain engine should stay.

 

So i am generally against polls because recent gaming history showed that blindly listening to the playerbase does not necessarily result in a better game, but in a casual game. That's not why i personally play SS13, i play it because it's deep and has a lot of very great mechanics most games today miss and it hurts to see machanics beeing dumbed down. I don't mind involving the community into a discussion and listening to arguements but a simple click to vote button does not seem useful to me.

That's a legit concern. We are all someone else's minority: It just takes a little rewording of the situation to suddenly find yourself marginalized.

 

On the topic itself: I also don't want to see the NCS Cyberiad become more of an easy-mode station than it already is, but I'm super skeptical of situations where you can be banned for goofing up or being incompetent. A hard game where mistakes happen is fun, but when your first mistake can be your last on the server then how are you supposed to improve? (And don't say "read the wiki" because we all know practically every SS13 wiki is an outdated mess in constant flux, struggling to keep up with changes made to the game's code in real time.)

 

[Bone White]

 

A hard game where mistakes happen is fun, but when your first mistake can be your last on the server then how are you supposed to improve?

 

The only reason why it'd be your last on the server is:

 

1. You learned your lesson and don't make any more mistakes (unlikely)

2. You get a warning and an explanation as to what your actions caused, and never return by your own decision (most common case)

You get a jobban and an explanation as to what your actions caused, and never return by your own decision (slightly less common)

You get a perma jobbaned because you didn't heed previous multiple warnings, and never return by your own decision (very rare)

You get tempbanned because it was probable grief, and you sulk and never return by your own decision (less common again)

You get permabanned because it was obvious and intentional grief, and you don't appeal or if fails (much more common during public listing)

You get permabanned because it was yet another probable grief, and you either don't appeal or it fails (less common and gives players the opportunity to alter their actions before they get permanently banned)

 

 

I hope this explains why the content of your quote does not apply to Paradise.

 

[monkeysfist101]

 

Rust Engine:

Pros:

Fuel efficient

Safe

Affordable

High energy output

 

Cons:

Everything in the pros section was a lie.

 

[mrbits]

 

The only reason why it'd be your last on the server is:

 

1. You learned your lesson and don't make any more mistakes (unlikely)

2. You get a warning and an explanation as to what your actions caused, and never return by your own decision (most common case)

You get a jobban and an explanation as to what your actions caused, and never return by your own decision (slightly less common)

You get a perma jobbaned because you didn't heed previous multiple warnings, and never return by your own decision (very rare)

You get tempbanned because it was probable grief, and you sulk and never return by your own decision (less common again)

You get permabanned because it was obvious and intentional grief, and you don't appeal or if fails (much more common during public listing)

You get permabanned because it was yet another probable grief, and you either don't appeal or it fails (less common and gives players the opportunity to alter their actions before they get permanently banned)

 

 

I hope this explains why the content of your quote does not apply to Paradise.

That's fair. I cede that on Paradise the odds of you getting banned without recourse for an honest mistake are practically non-existant. Despite the malicious verbal OOC thrashing a player can expect for screwing up anything aboard the NCS Cyberiad, that outlash of negativity rarely (if ever) guides the banning hand of the admins. I suppose I Iost perspective there.

 

[Bone White]

 

That's fair. I cede that on Paradise the odds of you getting banned without recourse for an honest mistake are practically non-existant. Despite the malicious verbal OOC thrashing a player can expect for screwing up anything aboard the NCS Cyberiad, that outlash of negativity rarely (if ever) guides the banning hand of the admins. I suppose I Iost perspective there.

 

I appreciate the mature reply. People who bash other's playstyles/mistakes in ooc also get warnings, which are usually of an equal value as the warning given to the person who made the mistake. I've been clamping down on this recently as it really ruins how new players feel about the server, and that's why the rule about keeping the server friendly and welcoming for all exists.

 

[PJB3005]

 

Just gonna this image from a recent /VG/ round here, to "help" the debate a little:

 

 

what I'm saying is: TINKERING FOR FUCKS SAKE, CAN'T DO THIS, STUPID PUNY "SINGULOTH",more like, smallolothI'm bad at puns, CAN YOU?

 

[Fj45]

Yes you can. More rad collectors. Larger field. Duel singos.

[Czardoc]

 

I've been engineering for a while and I really did learn how complex the SM is. It usually ends up either getting ejected or causing a massive radiation storm with a bunch of death hallucinations. I still haven't fully set it up before because I'm afraid of it.

 

The Singularity does give me a mini anxiety attack when the engineers make it a little large, but that's about it. It's a little too straight forward, giving me less time to do stuff. There's not much to mess up in a Singularity.

 

SM usually ends up with being ejected or exploding, much more than the Singularity is released.

I prefer the SM for safety but I also set up the Singularity.

 

[PJB3005]

 

Yes you can. More rad collectors. Larger field. Duel singos.

 

 

"larger field": completely useless, unless the fields have % failiure rate with bigger singulos, and it makes the singularity unreliable, because it'd be able to dodge PA shots(if it's stage 2)

 

"more collectors": also for SM, can't use it as an argument this much, also the SM is way easier to add collectors to

 

"dual singularitys": last time i tried, on a test server, when just messing around, they just went boom, gone, though that might've not even been paracode

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Just gonna this image from a recent /VG/ round here, to "help" the debate a little:

 

 

what I'm saying is: TINKERING FOR FUCKS SAKE, CAN'T DO THIS, STUPID PUNY "SINGULOTH",more like, smallolothI'm bad at puns, CAN YOU?

 

You can tinker with it, though. You just have to know what you're doing and the patience to do it.

 

It's how I pushed the Singulo to over 68,000,000 watts of power.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

You can tinker with it, though. You just have to know what you're doing and the patience to do it.

 

It's how I pushed the Singulo to over 68,000,000 watts of power.

Problem with the singularity is if you tinker and it goes bad, well it goes really bad. You would need to know what you do in the first place, what kind of defeats the purpose of tinkering.

 

[Czardoc]

 

Lord Singuloth.

 

Yesturday we tried to set up SM.

Everyone died trying to eject it.

Lord singuloth was released.

It blew up.

 

Every time I experience an SM we eject it or it blows up.

 

[Mark9013100]

Then learn to set it up properly, it's not the SM's fault if people refuse to look up a guide on it.

[Bone White]

 

Then learn to set it up properly, it's not the SM's fault if people refuse to look up a guide on it.

 

How to fix the SM overheating in three easy steps.

 

1) vent all the atmosphere out of the core room (and pipes, if they are closed and hot)

2) close the shutters and pump in pre-chilled N2 (You _did_ get atmos/ce to chill a canister of N2 for emergencies... right?)

3) watch the % instability slow down and eventually show "returning to stable levels" or something.

 

Venting the supermatter core room does _not_ chill the supermatter core by much at all. Yes, space is cold, but because it's a vacuum it has a very low rate of temperature transference. Keep chilled N2 on standby, and you'll be in a much better position to stop this.

 

[Fj45]

 

2) close the shutters and pump in pre-chilled N2 (You _did_ get atmos/ce to chill a canister of N2 for emergencies... right?)

 

See, the problem there is, the space loop is useless apart from making gas slightly frosty and the coolers should always be running for the waste loop. Even then, the engies rush the damn SM and by the time I have atmos setup so I can start cooling gas, the dammned SM has gone and exploded.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

See, the problem there is, the space loop is useless apart from making gas slightly frosty and the coolers should always be running for the waste loop. Even then, the engies rush the damn SM and by the time I have atmos setup so I can start cooling gas, the dammned SM has gone and exploded.

Well, but the SM blowing up this early could only be due to a Engineer fucking up. The "we need to rescue the SM" part should only come up when someone forgot to check up on the engine. By this point you most likely got everything running in atmos.

 

We would have the same problem with the singularity released every round if people wouldn't know how to set it up. But by now everyone fucked up and got yelled at by the admins so often that almost everyone knows how to work the singulairty. But by this logic we could never use a different engine ever again. People just need to take the time and read the instructions, or go and set up the solar arrays if they refuse to learn the SM.

 

 

 

Edit:

There should be a system in place (at round start) where you could vent the hot air of the supermatter pipes in space. Most people cannot rescue the supermatter, because at a certain point the SM "waste air" is so hot that it cannot be efficiently cooled down by the coolers anymore and they keep pumping the hot air back into the supermatter. If they are smart enough stop the hot air from reaching the supermatter inject port, then the waste loop just clogs and you can't cycle the air anymore.

 

This can currently only be reverted by atmos tech adding additional pipes and vent into space, for which you most likely will have not enough time.

 

[Bone White]

I don't understand what you mean by space loop.

[Fox McCloud]

 

I don't understand what you mean by space loop.

 

This is what people mean by a space loop:

 

 

Notice how there's a part that goes out into space to cool the gas?

 

[Bone White]

 

... but there's no space loop in the supermatter system unless you have the vetilary blast doors open. That's why I was confused. I now realised Fj was talking about the atmos room for chilling N2, and not the supermatter room.

 

See, the problem there is, the space loop is useless apart from making gas slightly frosty and the coolers should always be running for the waste loop. Even then, the engies rush the damn SM and by the time I have atmos setup so I can start cooling gas, the dammned SM has gone and exploded.

 

I've never seen waste gas temperature causing any problem with the to vent supply mix, so why is everyone such a great fan of connecting the coolers to the waste section?

 

[Fj45]

You are correct Bone.