Admin Complaint against Englishformula

[Victory143]

Admin(s) Key: Englishformula
Your ckey (Byond username): Victory143
Your Discord name (if applicable): Victory143

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 01:30~ 11/02/2025

ROUND ID: 43666

Nature of complaint: clarification required, feedback

Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint: N/A

Brief description: I was accused of antag fishing in admin PMs without any subsequent reasonable explanation of how I was antag fishing, to which the admin slowly walked back their accusation, then tell me that they've seen me do this at a previous date in the past and did not PM me or note me for it. I would like some clarification regarding how I was antag fishing, as well as generally giving feedback on how this came across to me.

Full description of events: Before beginning, I have attached to this complaint the relevant Admin PM in a txt file, as well as the subsequent conversation when I reached out for clarification over discord as a composite PNG, which you can read for yourself.

I was an assistant on Cyberiad station on green alert, walking through maints, when I heard another assistant, Eric Rickson, call me to a part of maints, to look at something. Naturally, I go to that part of maints to look, I have no reason not to given green alert and no evident threats. I find him in medmaints roughly, he drags me to south-east sci-maint to outside a little room with a boozemat. Eric begins to hit the walls, trying to open I assume a false wall, which no longer existed, and he has to cut the wall down. When the wall is cut open, I see Mike Drizzle, another assistant, inside the room. Eric Rickson makes the false wall again and takes me inside. I sort of stand around for a moment not really sure what he wanted to show me, and at this point, a security officer, Jiggy, makes a cult callout. I am then stunned using the cult magic hand, and stabbed, runes are revealed by Mike Drizzle, the other assistant in the room, and I am culted unceremoniously. At no point were cult items on display in or outside the room, and the runes were hidden from view with the cult spell that hides runes.

Once I am culted, I go for the cult target, royally mess up and get beaten and vendored by said target, get captured and deconverted. I spend some time in medbay trying get treated, nearly get abducted again but manage to crawl back in to medbay with some severe injuries. I hang around medbay for a while, eventually we are forced out, I make my way to cargo, I then go around the north side of the bridge to try and secure some bottles from the bar, I then get chased by two cultists who stun me, and put me in crit, and re-cult me.

Once re-culted, shortly after, I am admin messaged by English Formula, asking me to explain the situation around how I was first culted. Naturally I say what I saw, I couldn't see anything that would give me a reason to suspect cult on green alert. Englishformula proceeded to ignore me, and stated that as a player with a high playtime, I should have known better than to stand outside a "Cult room". I protested and asked how I was supposed to know the gamemode was cult and that the assistant beckoning me to see something, was infact a blood cultist. I stated what I felt was quite reasonable at the time, that I couldn't see runes inside the room, to which Englishformula stated he did not care if the runes were invisible, and that he was holding me accountable for standing outside the room regardless.

I'm extremely confused still how I was supposed to know that I was walking in to a "cult room", given that there were no signs of a blood cult anywhere in the vicinity, on the assistant leading me to a room which is always there, the assistant in the room itself, and on the station in general, given I was an assistant myself and it was green alert. Englishformula did not provide any reasoning as to why I was being held accountable for something I couldn't possibly know IC or OOC. They then went on to state it was not an accusation, because they had watched the entire chain of events unfold. Again, I'm left quite confused how this is not a direct accusation of antag fishing. Their insistence that I knew that the room was a "Cult Room" leaves me frankly baffled.

Englishformula then moved on from this unresolved point, to accusing me of antag fishing for a second time for being in medbay when injured. As an assistant, I don't have a department to defend, and I had a good reason to be in medical (I was really injured, then injured even more by a cultist who tried abducting me from medical). I was not placing myself unduly in a situation to be re-converted to cult. At this point in the Admin PM, Englishformula seems to be accusing me of antag fishing for being in medical, and validhunting for defending myself while being in medical. I am unsure if I am simply mis-reading it, but I would like clarification.

Englishformula moves on to state they have witnessed this behavior in the past from me, and has chosen not to PM me or note me for it. Bringing this up feels somewhat like hanging a damocles sword over me in the conversation, as this is from completely left field and I had no idea that this was a problem the admin team had noticed from me. I then ask which admins feel this way, as I'm suprised this would not have been brought up sooner given it had been noticed as a problem, but I was not answered. 

At this point, I have basically been unable to play the game and the round has nearly ended. The round end is extended for a short while while Englishformula states that the admin team (we) would like me to be mindful of the situations I am putting myself in. After the round has ended, I give it a short while to try and parse this conversation, and then failing that I ask in Discord DMs for some clarification (attached as a composite PNG). I am left even more confused by the subsequent conversation, as it appears I am supposed to know and act on the possiblilty of cultists in maints on green alert with no prior evidence, and to not place myself in any potential dangerous situations, like being in maints on green alert. During this conversation they also accuse me of asking them to "look the other way" in regards to me, which I am left even more perplexed as to how believe that. They also say that they were not accusing me, but were stating an observation, which is very much not how the entire admin PM came across. At this point that ask for me to open an admin complaint instead, so I acquiesce.

TLDR: I am still very much confused as to this entire conversation, and while it didn't result in any actions being taken against me, I feel that the accusation was somewhat baseless and poorly thought out. There was an absolute insistence that I was supposed to know things I couldn't know IC or OOC, and that I should be held accountable for such. When this was pointed out, Englishformula moved on to other points which I felt were also quite unfair and then said this was a pattern of behavior, which I could not have possibly known about, and came across as something they wanted to use to bludgeon me in to admitting wrongdoing. I would like some other admins to look at this, and provide some clarification as to what I did wrong.

Admin PM.txt

[SaltDog76]

Your ckey : SaltDog76
Your Discord name : Dog

Involvement in incident: Was the one of the cultists that was present for Victorys initial conversion which ended up causing the PM, as well as being the cultist that abducted Victory from medical and left him severely inured after the incident, forcing him to go to medical.

Agreement/disagreement with described events: I can fully confirm that the events that occurred at Victorys conversion in science maintenance as he depicts them as true as I was one of the cultists present for said conversion. The claim that Victory could've seen the runes within the hidden room which runes were in are entirely false, when Victory was led into the room by Eric Rickson, the once revealed runes that it seems the admin was concerned about Victory having seemingly somehow seen had already been hidden before he could even make visual contact on what is inside the room its self. He had absolutely no way of knowing there were Runes inside the room, its not like when Eric welded open the wall the runes were still present or I had hidden them like a second after he welded open the wall, the runes were entirely hidden well before that wall was ever welded open. By the time Victory was brought inside the room, he was screwed. Cult had only been called out a few seconds after he had entered the room, by which point he was stunned and completely helpless to escape the situation, after which he converted to a cultist.

Now I would also like to back up Victorys claim of him being in Medical after being severely injured by a Cultist who attempted to abduct him from medical. The cultist who tried to abduct him from Medical and severely injured him in the process was in fact, me. I ran into medical and stun spelled Victory and then began stabbing him as I dragged him into Medical Maints. I was luckily wearing a Zealots Blindfold at the time (which grants you a Med Hud) so I was able to see and am able to confirm that Victory was severely injured from this encounter and had no choice but to go to medical or else he would've succumbed to his injuries.

In both instances, I can confirm Victory was not Antag Fishing, in the Sci Maint event he had no way of knowing there was a Cult on station, nor even a reason to suspect a cult on station as the runes he was in the closest proximity to were hidden, and by the time the call out was made he was being actively converted, and I can confirm that he did not place himself in Medical for no reason, as I had directly caused him severe injuries that would have forced him to go to medical as confirmed by my Zealots Blindfold.

[Crazyhair]

6 hours ago, SaltDog76 said:

Your ckey : SaltDog76
Your Discord name : Dog

Involvement in incident: Was the one of the cultists that was present for Victorys initial conversion which ended up causing the PM, as well as being the cultist that abducted Victory from medical and left him severely inured after the incident, forcing him to go to medical.

Agreement/disagreement with described events: I can fully confirm that the events that occurred at Victorys conversion in science maintenance as he depicts them as true as I was one of the cultists present for said conversion. The claim that Victory could've seen the runes within the hidden room which runes were in are entirely false, when Victory was led into the room by Eric Rickson, the once revealed runes that it seems the admin was concerned about Victory having seemingly somehow seen had already been hidden before he could even make visual contact on what is inside the room its self. He had absolutely no way of knowing there were Runes inside the room, its not like when Eric welded open the wall the runes were still present or I had hidden them like a second after he welded open the wall, the runes were entirely hidden well before that wall was ever welded open. By the time Victory was brought inside the room, he was screwed. Cult had only been called out a few seconds after he had entered the room, by which point he was stunned and completely helpless to escape the situation, after which he converted to a cultist.

Now I would also like to back up Victorys claim of him being in Medical after being severely injured by a Cultist who attempted to abduct him from medical. The cultist who tried to abduct him from Medical and severely injured him in the process was in fact, me. I ran into medical and stun spelled Victory and then began stabbing him as I dragged him into Medical Maints. I was luckily wearing a Zealots Blindfold at the time (which grants you a Med Hud) so I was able to see and am able to confirm that Victory was severely injured from this encounter and had no choice but to go to medical or else he would've succumbed to his injuries.

In both instances, I can confirm Victory was not Antag Fishing, in the Sci Maint event he had no way of knowing there was a Cult on station, nor even a reason to suspect a cult on station as the runes he was in the closest proximity to were hidden, and by the time the call out was made he was being actively converted, and I can confirm that he did not place himself in Medical for no reason, as I had directly caused him severe injuries that would have forced him to go to medical as confirmed by my Zealots Blindfold.

Remember to keep your post objective as you only share your situation. Not adding your opinion on whether or not a rule break took place or if an admin applied the rules incorrectly.

[SaltDog76]

Ah, my bad on that part. First time doing one of these so I wasn't super sure on what to include and what not to, thanks for letting me know!

[DoctorDrugs]

This Admin Complaint took a bit longer than normal for me to filter through the round logs and required me to ask Englishformula a few questions regarding what they saw as well as what they believe happened. Unfortunately this delayed my response by a little bit as I attempted to fill in holes with hard evidence that I just couldn't nail down to a certainty, I have your side of events, the admin's side of events and the logs from the round itself but I am missing some specifics for timing so I will apologize if something sounds a little off to you in regards to the timeline of what transpired. Specifically about the exact time and place of conversions and when cultists hid or unhid runes as I do not have a timestamp associated with these events, a side note this has sparked my requests to add extra logging for those situations and to double check on other similar types of events to make sure there's an accurate log in game and out of game to make dealing with these much easier in the future.

Now I will get started here by breaking down a very rough timeline of events, I can add timestamps for everything if needed later but I feel the important parts with a timestamp is pretty sufficient for handling this AC.
 

Quote

Prior to going into maints you made some comments general banter types of things, including a comments about rejecting society essentually.
[2025-02-11T01:04:16] SAY: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (128,120,2):  'I'VE HAD IT'
[2025-02-11T01:04:32] SAY: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (129,121,2):  'I'm going in to maints'
[2025-02-11T01:04:40] SAY: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (128,120,2):  'I'm going to become a primitivist'

Unfortunately I can't tell exactly if you were drunk before or after you entered maints in game but you were during the time of being near another player who you had no idea was a cultist at that time.
[2025-02-11T01:09:37] SAY: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (211,91,2):  'I can't see shit'
[2025-02-11T01:09:38] SAY: x/(Eric Rickson) (211,90,2):  'ILL SHOW YOU THE WAY!!'
[2025-02-11T01:09:42] SAY: x/(Eric Rickson) (211,87,2):  'come'
[2025-02-11T01:09:51] SAY: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (207,78,2):  'I don't want to rejoin society'
[2025-02-11T01:09:55] SAY: x/(Eric Rickson) (208,78,2):  'we aint society'
There's some more banter in roughly the same spot in maints

[2025-02-11T01:11:09] SAY: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (210,78,2):  'I'm rejecting society. It's full of slimes'
[2025-02-11T01:11:15] SAY: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (210,78,2):  'They take my job'
[2025-02-11T01:11:17] SAY: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (210,78,2):  'My vulps'
[2025-02-11T01:11:22] ATTACK: x/(Eric Rickson) (210,74,2) against Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk)(210,73,2): used a cult spell (Stunning Aura) on
[2025-02-11T01:11:22] SAY: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (210,73,2):  'I'm sick of it'
[2025-02-11T01:11:24] ATTACK: x/(Eric Rickson) (210,74,2) against Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk)(209,73,2): Attacked with ritual dagger (HARM) (BRUTE)
[2025-02-11T01:11:25] EMOTE: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (209,73,2): makes a very loud noise.
[2025-02-11T01:11:26] ATTACK: x/(Eric Rickson) (210,74,2) against Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk)(209,73,2): used a cult spell (Shackling Aura) on
 [2025-02-11T01:11:29] ATTACK: x/(Eric Rickson) (210,74,2) against Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk)(209,73,2): shackled
And then we have the initial attempt from the cultist after a bit of waiting happened to succeed at catching you unaware and whilst drunk.
[2025-02-11T01:17:29] ATTACK: Victory143/(Victor Ibramsk) (201,84,2) against : Fallen unconscious (way after the converting to a cultist but shows you passing out drunk)

After this point you attack an Officer or Blueshield, end up arrested, stripped and deconverted in security.
A few minutes after you end up in medical to get fixed up from your earlier arrest, which funnily enough during which some cultists attack medbay to which you help out medical a bit by attacking the cultists that were attacking others.
Soon enough you end up dead from a cultist dragging and smacking you with a cult blade, eventually being revived in medical.
Eventually after revival you found your way to the bar after some more booze to which cultists rushed into the bar attacking you and others, which lead to your eventual capture and second conversion to cult.

Now the rest here is extra information that helps paint a picture and helps gives a clearer understanding with logs compared to what an Admin sees during the round:
[2025-02-11T01:11:44] SAY: Y/(Jiggy) (200,88,2): (Security) 'binary bot cultist' (This is the earliest time a cultist is called out over comms)
[2025-02-11T01:11:53] GAME: Z/(Bloopy Fizz) triggered and Devan Strife/(Striffian) confirmed event Red Alert (This is the moment that Red Alert is set)

The above image is the section of sci maints the first set of longs and first part of the timeline I have posted as a quote block, now the red area highlights where you were when you were first starting to talk to the cultist and the blue area is where you were hanging out with the cultist before you were captured. Below the cyan area is where the cultists were at marked in orange and what I believe from logs to be a false wall marked in green(false wall location is difficult to be sure and should be taken with a massive grain of salt as there's a log of talking standing on that exact tile position). 

Now to get into the complaint itself with what information we have established from the logs and the image above. So starting off from what I can tell you were pretty drunk IC as you mention it multiple times, the empty bottles in your bag you used as makeshift weapons during various points makes me believe you indeed did drink a decent bit if not an entire bottle prior to meeting the cultist. The earliest point where cultists were called out to everyone on the station was when the red alert was triggered roughly half a minute after you were already attacked, stunned and captured. I don't think you had any intention on hanging around in maints if you knew it was a cultist base but due to being drunk even if you had the ability to see the runes from your position it would've been very difficult to do so like that from being a few tiles to the left of the false wall. Sadly I cannot tell if the runes were hidden or revealed after or before you were captured as there's no logging of that spell (this will be addressed soon to make it much easier to tell from the logs in the near future) but even discounting them existing there already I believe you were completely blindsided by the attack and did not see it coming.

Antagfishing can be quite difficult to prove and be 100% certain of and sometimes admins notice something that doesn't seem right at the time, in this case English saw the incident go down with the 1st conversion to cultist and didn't PM straight away discussing it first before deciding later on to message you about it. The beauty of hindsight is that we have much more time to sit down and analyze what, when and why much easier than during a round as well as being able to more easily get a general idea of everything that was going on at the time. This means that some things will slip through the cracks during the round whilst an admin is trying to deal with a lot or trying to keep eyes on a hectic round, one of the things English didn't notice during the round that I saw in logs was the very high chance you were drunk. I have already discussed this AC with him regarding a few things and not my decision on this complaint, we discussed the timeline with him directly to make sure I wasn't missing anything or he might have had anything to add that was missed. He has admitted that he missed that fact you were drunk in the logs as it's something hard to be completely sure of at the time as it would've taken a lot of digging through multiple sets of logs. He also has told me directly that he believes he was "a bit too stubborn" in his own words regarding how he approached the PMs with you in game. He promised to rethink his method for how he approaches PMs and how he will word them going forward.

Now closing up this complaint; the Admin PMs from Englishforumla, I believe he was a bit too harsh in tone personally for my liking at certain parts, coming on heavy and hard more than he needed. I will talk to him regarding my issues with the tone of how things were approached and handled to follow up on his promise to handle these better in the future. As for the nature of this complaint I do find it with Merit as I give you the benefit of doubt that you truly had no idea what was gonna happen and were just going with the flow of running into people randomly as it does happen from time to time even in maints. As for the note from the whole situation I will be having that note removed from your ckey as it doesn't reflect what happened. If you have any additional questions or comments that need to be addressed regarding this situation or the round feel free to ask them.

[Victory143]

Hi, thanks for looking at this. You pretty much covered all the points I raised so I'm happy for this to be closed.

[DoctorDrugs]

alright seeing as this is resolved now with no further questions or comments I'll be filling this as such.