Vox security inventory tetris

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

God, i feel like the vox ambassador for this forum

 

I recently played vox in security and noticed how much of an impact the recent security gear changes have on Vox security officers.

 

The lack of the webbing and the smaller security belt results in 7 slots less (i think).

 

Before the change i would usually gear up like this:

Security belt:

Security tape

2 handcuffs

Flashbang

pepperspray

taser

baton

 

Webbing:

2 evidence bags

2 donuts

one free storage slot

 

Pockets:

1 flash

one free storage slot

 

Leaving me with reduced but decent security gear and two free storage slots. One for longer term storage in the webbing and one for immediate access in my pocket. If i really needed the space i could just nom the two donuts and have two more.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With the changes i have to gear up something like this:

 

Security belt:

Security tape Nope

2 handcuffs Nope

Flashbang

pepperspray

taser

baton

+Seclite

 

Webbing: Nope

2 evidence bags Nope

2 donuts Nope

one free storage slot Nope

 

Pockets:

1 flash

one free storage slot Nope

+ 1 handcuff

 

This is absolutely bare bones security gear and i still don't have any free storage slots.

HELP ME!

 

Edited December 10, 2014 by Guest

[PJB3005]

 

I can only imagine fox's response to this being: "vox were never made for normal play"

When vox raiders are adminbus only

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

Well this is kind of a moot point, they have been put in the game a long time ago and when changes are made, they should be resonable for all.

[Spacemanspark]

Again, we need to revert to what we had before Fox started nerfing/ porting things over.

[SK4.0e004]

 

Well, lorewise speaking, the vox kind is a race of cowards who avoid combat at all cost, and hide when endangered, hiding in lockers being their favourite strategy.

 

Quotes from the wiki:

 

Vox will never willingly surrender unless the only other alternative is death. However, they will happily fake surrender if it puts them in a better position to escape. They lie as easily as they breathe and appear fearless despite their propensity for running like the clappers at the first sign of trouble.

 

A Vox will never willingly stand and fight if running is a viable alternative, except if it's a challenge from another Vox in front of their crew. Vox are found of darkness and hiding in lockers.

 

 

 

Link to the wiki page: http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Vox

 

This behaviour does not fit very well for member of the security staff, who need to risk their live for the wellbeing of the station. However, from what i could observe, most vox players don't bother applying this lore, and pretend to be bold and 'badass' space birds.

 

TL;DR: Vox are cowards and shouldnt work in security at all.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

Well, lorewise speaking, the vox kind is a race of cowards who avoid combat at all cost, and hide when endangered, hiding in lockers being their favourite strategy.

 

Quotes from the wiki:

 

Vox will never willingly surrender unless the only other alternative is death. However, they will happily fake surrender if it puts them in a better position to escape. They lie as easily as they breathe and appear fearless despite their propensity for running like the clappers at the first sign of trouble.

 

A Vox will never willingly stand and fight if running is a viable alternative, except if it's a challenge from another Vox in front of their crew. Vox are found of darkness and hiding in lockers.

 

 

 

Link to the wiki page: http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Vox

 

This behaviour does not fit very well for member of the security staff, who need to risk their live for the wellbeing of the station. However, from what i could observe, most vox players don't bother applying this lore, and pretend to be bold and 'badass' space birds.

 

TL;DR: Vox are cowards and shouldnt work in security at all.

And this means they can't and should be hindered from doing so?

I like the lore, but this should /not/ mean that it should hinder gameplay. If they do it well, then I say go with it.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

I hear this annoying counter arguement about the lore every time i discuss anything about vox.

 

1. The vox lore is about 5 or 6 printed pages long

2. Many of it contains fluff or talks about a other vox species and don't aplly to the vox you encounter on the station.

3. It was obviously written cynically about the "bad" Vox Raiders

4. How can you take something so serious that contains sentences like: "Vox are found of darkness and hiding in lockers."

 

Obviously Vox on an NT Station behave differently as a usual Vox, or they wouldn't be "alone" on the station anyways. It really is not that difficult to immagine that they would stand up for themselfs and do their job in security. Also security usually does not kill anyone except when thier lifes are threatened and vox have a strong desire to not leave anyone behind, which could also mean that they would stand up for their crew if someone tries to harm or kill them.

 

And above all: Fuck lore, if it hinders gameplay or prevents good and useful changes to be made to the codebase!

 

/rant over

 

Please don't take this personal, it's more of a broader statement to vent my frustration.

 

[Bone White]

 

I don't see why you're carrying flash and/or pepperspray over handcuffs.

 

Masks counter peppersprays.

Sunglasses or rig helmets counter flashes.

Neither counters stun baton or taser.

 

If you're metagame your inventory, then metagame your inventory properly. Leave the flash and pepperspray in the locker.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

I don't see why you're carrying flash and/or pepperspray over handcuffs.

 

Masks counter peppersprays.

Sunglasses or rig helmets counter flashes.

Neither counters stun baton or taser.

 

If you're metagame your inventory, then metagame your inventory properly. Leave the flash and pepperspray in the locker.

>Metagaming your inventory.

Fox told us the reason for the security inventory nerfs were for 'inventory management'. It seems to be purely annoying to some, but completely hinders others.

I still say we revert all the recent security changes minus the new sec pod changes (Put it at paincrit instead of instastun, obviously.) But that's for another thread.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

I don't see why you're carrying flash and/or pepperspray over handcuffs.

 

Masks counter peppersprays.

Sunglasses or rig helmets counter flashes.

Neither counto gors stun baton or taser.

 

If you're metagame your inventory, then metagame your inventory properly. Leave the flash and pepperspray in the locker.

Could you please explain how picking up security equipment as a security officer is considered Meta gaming?

 

You guys patched this stuff in the game and now i am beeing accused of meta gaming for pointing out your obvious failures that could have been prevented in the first place, if you would have applied some common sense. Way to Go.

 

[PJB3005]

 

I don't see why you're carrying flash and/or pepperspray over handcuffs.

 

Masks counter peppersprays.

Sunglasses or rig helmets counter flashes.

Neither counters stun baton or taser.

 

If you're metagame your inventory, then metagame your inventory properly. Leave the flash and pepperspray in the locker.

 

instantly resorting to stun baton/taser is one of the first signs of shitcurity

 

[Fj45]

 

While I agree that sec could carry a little too much gear and the webbing vests were pretty broken, its gone too far in the other direction where you can barely carry the essentials and there is no more tweaking your loadout to suit your playstyle. It also makes certain utility weapons UTTERLY useless. At one point inventory management just becomes unfun.

 

 

If you're metagame your inventory, then metagame your inventory properly.

 

AHAHHA....what?!

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Vox will always be difficult to balance, in this regard, due to their unique requirements to incessantly carry around a nitrogen tank on their back; what also complicates matters further is that they're a race that was never meant for use by regular players. Yes, I know, we've had Vox for about a year on Paradise, but this still doesn't change the fact they were never really meant for non-antag play--likewise, for Para, while they were deliberately added for regular play, not much has really been done to correct some of the issues.

 

One idea that could be done, to help this would be to give Vox double-capacity emergency oxygen tanks (like the one Cap has in his office) that start off completely full of Nitrogen. They'd still have their Nitrogen requirement to breathe, but the tank could be kept on their belt or in their pocket, if need be. Still a -1 slot compared to regular individuals, but they'd have backpacks (the lack of which is probably Vox's biggest weakness).This does not mean this will happen or not happen; it will have to be discussed.

 

As for Bone White's comment, I don't think he means the metagaming as in the "you get in trouble for this", I believe he means "if you're going to pick items for your inventory, then do it right and carry the necessary and nothing more"--meaning--forget about the pepperspray and potentially flash, as a Vox.

 

[Bone White]

 

As for Bone White's comment, I don't think he means the metagaming as in the "you get in trouble for this", I believe he means "if you're going to pick items for your inventory, then do it right and carry the necessary and nothing more"--meaning--forget about the pepperspray and potentially flash, as a Vox.

 

Exactly this. If you're tight on space it makes the most sense to use the baton instead of pepper spray / flash.

 

[Fj45]

Metagame isn't really the right word to use at all in that context though.

[Regen]

 

Metagame isn't really the right word to use at all in that context though.

Maybe not, but back to the issue at hand.

 

I like the idea of vox getting a backpack, using the double emergency airtanks, perhaps resprited and renamed to something that is a bit more to the lore.

In my opinion it wouldn't make vox overpowered, it would just give more leeway when playing vox as a whole.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

As for Bone White's comment, I don't think he means the metagaming as in the "you get in trouble for this", I believe he means "if you're going to pick items for your inventory, then do it right and carry the necessary and nothing more"--meaning--forget about the pepperspray and potentially flash, as a Vox.

I have never thought about this as a threat, to me this came accross rather insulting to be honest. Especially when you are talking about a RP games meta gaming has allways negative connotation attached.

And the last sentence where he basicly told me to play shitcurity was the real kicker. I think if there is one thing this forum could aggree on, than it's the fact that an officer that just takes a baton and a taser is straight up shitcurity. I am actually kinda stunned how you could consider this as a valid suggestion. But i would rather get over this and back to topic:

 

 

That fact that i have to evaluate my equipment choises more than the regular security officer comes with the extrem storage limitations of the Vox race since this last changes. I generally enjoy this, because i think it's fun to have certain limitations and make the best of it, but in this case it just goes to far. Same would happen if the Engineering webbing would go poof. As a vox you just have your belt slot as storage and both Security and Engineering requires you to fill it up with job specific gear, leaving you with no space left for anything else.

 

In most of the other jobs, like medbay, science, or the service departments you can usually slip by, by using your plastic bag. Especially in medical this bag is super handy. Also i wish it wasn't just a crappy plastic bag, i have never seen a doctor with a plastic bag attached to his belt. But on the other hand i have never seen a human sized bird in a hostpital either.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Most recent patch will likely please any Vox player--I won't spoil it here, but once the server updates, I feel you'll be pleasantly surprised

 

Also I really don't see how someone utilizing the stun baton/taser before a flash or pepperspray is being shitcurity. Pulling out your taser/baton and stunning them first thing without them resisting? Yeah, that's shitcurity, but once they're not complying, I don't see how using a baton/taser first is anywhere remotely close to being shitcurity.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

I have played a few rounds as HoP and the captain never made it on the station so a snatched his double emergency tank and filled it with nitrogen which is perfect for vox. Usually when i get bored or have some spare time i try to convince atmos techs to make me two emergency tanks with nitrogen, which basicly does the same but is more availiable.

 

Except for the fact that when you go unconcious nobody could get you back on internals so i usually kept the big tank in my backpack as backup. I think it would be generally a good idea (for all races) that you should be able to mount every gas tank on the back slot (even the small blue ones). It does not make much sense that you need a gigantic gas tank to set someone on internals who is unconcious.

 

I would have no problem with adding some resprited double emergency tank for vox if they could also, in case of emergency, be back mounted and used to put me back on internals. I think it should start with the same amount of gas as a vox starts currently with the big tank, whatever that translates too, i assume a double tank has less max capacity as a big tank. And having the ability to spawn vox with a backpack would certainly prevent a lot of extra coding work that would have to be done solely to make new changes work for vox.

 

So yeah, if the coders don't want to address all the little issues that vox currently have (which i can totally understand) then just removing the big tank requirement would be one way to go.

 

Edit: Well, i got interuppted writing this and didn't notice your response before sending mine. I will await the change:)

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

Also I really don't see how someone utilizing the stun baton/taser before a flash or pepperspray is being shitcurity. Pulling out your taser/baton and stunning them first thing without them resisting? Yeah, that's shitcurity, but once they're not complying, I don't see how using a baton/taser first is anywhere remotely close to being shitcurity.

Maybe this is a more subjective impression then i thought. I allways looked at it from the perspective that taser and batons apply pain and agony to a character and are rather a tool of last resort whereas flashes are not that intrusive. The mental image of shocking someone with a stun baton until he drops on the floor screaming in pain just because he jumped the bar counter several times and refuses handcuffs just seems worng to me. Obviously game mechanic wise there is not much of a difference and i would also tase them when they just run and gain distance.

 

For me a flash is more of a RP tool to get a point accross like someone fucking up in the bar and taser and baton are to get up into get up in someone's grill. Whatever the case i am over it and don't hold any grudges.

 

[Fox McCloud]

Flashes are now more of a crowd control tool; they don't do the same thing as stun batons do now; they blind for a bit longer and cause confusion; if you use the attack-self with the flash (ie: clicking on it), then it'll do the same effect in an AoE, but to less of an effect.

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

As requested, i am taking this back to this thread:

I just hijack this comment to also add that i right now spawned in the first time as vox and i am all up for this changes, but i would likely make sense to spawn the vox in with a backpack. Because certain job related items are only given when there is a backpack to place them in. In addition the vox don't get a plasic bag anymore as civ, probably because both hands are full and nothing can be put in the backpack.

 

Please post this in the appropriate thread instead of hijacking in the future.

 

That said, Vox should spawn with backpacks. All backpack spawning is handled by the jobs datums; since they no longer spawn with a tank on their back, they'll now spawn in with whatever backpack their job gives them.

 

For civilians (the only job that intentionally starts with a plastic bag), the bag is equipped in the right hand, where as the new oxygen tank is equipped in the left.

 

With this change, the only individuals that should be starting with bags (besides civilians) are Unathi and Tajaran for their gloves and shoes restriction.

 

I am not sure if you meant that you made additional changes after my comment or not. The last time i logged in was like 16 - ish hours ago. At this point i spawned two rounds as civ vox and started with the following gear:

- No plastic bag (belt slot empty)

- a box (with mask + small blue tank + injector) in one hand

- the new voxigen tank in the other hand

- Backpack slot empty

 

For whatever reason vox don't get a backpack. The the game can't put the box in the backpack and places in one hand. Next, the vox gets his new tank in the other hand. At this point both hands are full and the plastic bag can't be places on the character and just poofs. (plastic bags were allways put in the hand not the belt slot)

 

I can only assume that's what happens from observation, i haven't checked the code. What i do know for certain is that not having a backpack will also result in not getting certain jobs related items like the tele baton.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

No idea what's causing the issue, but you're literally the only person to complain of this; plenty of Vox have spawned in with their full backpack and gear.

 

I did a test on spawning in as a Vox civvie, here was the result:

 

 

Bag in one hand, internals in another, and backpack on the thing's back.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

While i am thinking about it, it is quite possible that i just don't have a backpack selected on my saved character. In which case i would be a giant derp.

 

I will try again today and report back.

 

Edit:

Derpiness confirmed.