Wintermote Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 One of the problems with using telescience is that it'll constantly spark plasma fires, and this will severely wound or kill anyone without a hardsuit who opens the door into the telescience chamber. Since I've been using telescience for the last little while, I realized that it was way easier to just grab the medical hardsuits from EVA than to bother waiting minutes for the room to cool down. Any atmos problems are easily solved by just venting into maintenance - which quickly normalizes the pressure and temperature. An alternative option is a setup for telescience that allows the room to be more quickly 'normalized' so you don't have to wait an age before opening the doors. Some kind of airlock, like the ones around the supermatter, would also be nice, and would allow someone with a hardsuit to enter the chamber without flooding the rest of the room with superheated gas. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceTimeNow Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 I allways though that the atmos problems in telescience are supposed to be some kind of soft cap an how frequent you can teleport stuff around. If that's not the case then the teleporter roum should just get 4 vents and 4 scrubbers. that should do a lot of work for that small room. A windoor airlocksystem wouldn't hur either, but i am not sure if the windoor wouldn't burst to easily. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fj45 Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Grab the two huge scrubbers from gas storage and shove them in there. Ask the atmos techs nicely for an extra scrubber or nick one from outside engineering or emergency storage. Just wait for the scrubbers to work and eat most of the hot air. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermote Posted December 10, 2014 Author Posted December 10, 2014 The scrubbers don't eat the hot air, they don't do anything to the air temperature or pressure, they just scrub out toxins/plasma. That's the problem. You can get rid of the plasma really quickly. Like, 5-10 seconds fast. But by then, the air's 400C and pressurized to 300kpa. Basically, I don't really care much about having a hardsuit as I do some way of making the room safe in a reasonably speedy timeframe. It's just that having a hardsuit from EVA right now is significantly easier and less time consuming than waiting for the room vents to clear the room on their own. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJB3005 Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Aren't the fires and other side effects of the telepad caused by idiots not recalibrating it when needed, I don't see why we should reward incompetence Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldrin-Kanthos Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Also, why five a hardsuit? Giving telesci one just means that there is less need for the atmos techs to do their jobs. If they have less to do, then they become David Buck.... Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midaychi Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 If you gave telescience hardsuits you could also put telescience in a vacuum. That'd solve the atmospheric problems as well. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeStylaLT Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 It's an inherent weakness of telescience - it's dangerous. If you were to remove the danger right off the bat by spawning a counter to it, what's the point of it being dangerous? It'd be like if atmos spawned with a functioning and set up cooling loop or all of station equipment spawning with fully upgraded parts because it's a bother to upgrade them all. If that happens, what's the damn point of even having R&D or atmos techs? Everything's already set up by the game itself. Sigurd has something like this in telescience, where it has a cooling loop set up for it which minimized if not eliminated the danger of the hot air and pressure. And it sucked. Because it's as if the fire and plasma and hot air had no purpose to be there anyway. On top of this, with the new buildable coolers it's possible to build your own cooling system in telescience, negating the negatives of it, but not because a mapper put it in, but because you did it. It was your hard work that caused it to happen, not because you were entitled to it and got it. Making the map fix the downsides of telescience isn't the answer, YOU making them yourself in the game is. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermote Posted December 10, 2014 Author Posted December 10, 2014 Okay, you guys don't seem to understand. Getting a hardsuit is absolutely trivial for telescience. I can have one within three minutes of entering the room. The proposition is simply that instead of stealing a hardsuit from EVA for use in telescience, telescience either have a hardsuit to begin with, or the means to make the room safer, quickly. Thus obviating the need for a hard suit. If malfunctions are meant to be dangerous, then presently they aren't nearly dangerous enough, and in any case, would still warrant a hardsuit almost as a minimum. Additionally, I've had fires start in telescience even with proper calibration. So keeping it calibrated won't save you. Mostly decalibration just brings in easy-to-kill mobs. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldrin-Kanthos Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Getting a hardsuit is absolutely trivial for telescience. I can have one within three minutes of entering the room. The proposition is simply that instead of stealing a hardsuit from EVA for use in telescience, telescience either have a hardsuit to begin with, or the means to make the room safer, quickly. Thus obviating the need for a hard suit. I think this is part of the problem. You admit to stealing a hardsuit with telesci. Isn't that is a prime definition of powergaming as well as meta? Do you steal weapons in case someone attacks you, or maybe the spare captain ID... in case you need to get somewhere locked. Where do you draw a line with being a teleporting magpie? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midaychi Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Well its not really meta if you can look into eva and see the coveted hardsuits, and the common assumption is that the station has been at least functioning with its crew for a little while before the game actually starts, so he would have had time to notice its location. Besides isn't this a bit off the train tracks of a rant about power gaming? The thread is about 'hey it'd be nice if we had some sort of hardsuit for telescience' and countering with 'I can just GET hard suits, it's just a pain in the ass to have to deal with the shit involved in doing so'. Honestly if you could get more excavation suits somehow either through cargo or manufacturing them, those are both hardsuits and have limited radiation protection. Edited December 10, 2014 by Guest Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldrin-Kanthos Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Well its not really meta if you can look into eva and see the coveted hardsuits. It is if you expect to have a plasma fire and so within the first three minutes you teleport a hardsuit to yourself. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midaychi Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Most of the basic hazards involving telescience come with the job description and training, so yes you would expect calibration issues. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldrin-Kanthos Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Okay, I stand corrected. They would know the dangers, but hardsuits are supposed to be rare. I mean engineering and mining starts with them, and that is about all. (I know captain and paramedic do, but generally it is seen as poor form for them to walk around the station in a hardsuit.) Giving telescience a way to just ignore their only real downside seems pointless. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 Not a good idea, at all, as Freestyle clearly explained. Not only this, our telesci is going to go out the window; teleporting has no cooldown, no range limitations, and is stupidly easy to solve, even by someone who the most basic level of competency in SS13. "Easy to solve" is impossible to ever fix, as, inevitably, spreadsheets and auto-solvers will always be generated. That said, cooldown and range limitations are something that can help curb how ridiculous telsci is--particularly range; the new telesci will be powered by bluespace crystals, which will put an inherent range limitation on how far away telesci will work; if you want to teleport things outside of that range, you'll need the cooperation of mining and R&D to produce more bluespace crystals. Let's face it, it's insanely stupid that you can loot the entire armory, head lockers, and other high value targets in literally 10 minutes---from round start; it's not balanced and just encourages people exactly to steal everything. On the plus side to new telesci: no risk of failure (mob spam, plasma release, etc). Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceTimeNow Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 Telescience is very overpowered, especially if people note the coordinates of all the important items or rooms. I don't think that tuneing the difficulty would do any good. It cannot be a mathematical problem, certain people will find it to easy other to difficult and some will just make or search for a tool to get the job done, the mechanic needs to change somehow. Currently i have no good idea how it could be changed. Maybe make it a matter of timing, or maybe you need to shove in certain materials like glass, metal, plasma ... to steer on what coordinates you are aiming? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermote Posted December 13, 2014 Author Posted December 13, 2014 Well, after giving the new telescience a shot, I can't say it's much different from old telescience. Takes slightly longer to get an item, but it's pretty much the same as the old, without the fun creature spawns and fire. The range nerf is honestly the biggest thing that effects how overpowered/underpowered it is. Frankly, if I were going to do a quickfix, I'd just keep the old telesci with the new requirement for bluespace telecrystals to extend range. Old telescience was more entertaining to use and set up. New telescience is basically: You're having fun with this? Well, Fuck your fun. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2751-telescience-needs-a-hardsuit/#findComment-16663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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