Alien Gamemode bugfixing/problemsolving

[Wintermote]

 

The alien gamemode's been removed from rotation due to massive bugs/problems with it. This thread's for suggesting some solutions.

 

1. The Alien Queen and Empress use massive multi-tile sprites. While they look cool, it's actually impossible to hit people who stand in certain directions from you, and you'll very often hit yourself trying to kill someone.

 

The best solution for this would be to just give them an auto-target ability like firearms have. Target someone, and then you'll automatically hit them when you're close enough. This might even be worth trying on regular aliens to make them more lethal in hand to hand combat.

 

 

 

2. Another big issue is the Alien AI. (Frankly in my opinion, they shouldn't even have an alien AI or Alien cyborg.) Unfortunately for the player who gets saddled as the Alien AI, its APC isn't hooked up to an SMES battery, so it dies within about ten minutes. It's an easy enough solution - add an SMES battery.

 

 

 

3. The spawning system is also very problematic. If an Alien Queen is on the derelict somehow and starts laying eggs there, alien players who die on the station and respawn as an alien, will respawn as a facehugger on the derelict, inside an egg. Unable to commit suicide for a new spawn, or even hatch themselves to wander around. All things considered, I've found having players control facehuggers has actually been a large detriment to alien gameplay simply due to how clunky it is for a player to try and infect someone and the limited number of people around to play as facehuggers.

 

It used to be that the facehuggers were AI controlled and would automatically launch themselves at humans or monkeys and infect them, when a chestburster spawned it automatically pulled a random player from those who were dead.

 

Perhaps a better system would be to pull a player the moment someone's infected, have them wait through incubation and then choose when/where to burst out. If there are no players, the embryo simply remains dormant. (and removable via surgery)

 

 

 

4. Aliens have absolutely no idea where they are when they spawn or jump their ship into the z-level.

There's a number of different ways this could be looked at. The aliens could simply not have their own ship at all, and spawn on the station, for example. (Perhaps some crewmembers begin infected) This does however, make it more difficult for the aliens.

 

But if the aliens are going to be spawning on a spaceship - a mobile one or not - they need to be able to see where the station is. Even syndies have some trouble getting to the station at times, and they spawn with pinpointers telling them where to go. Something similar to this on the alien HUD might be a good idea. A compass of sorts to point to the center of the station. Alternatively or perhaps in addition, some way of sensing human players from beyond the visual range (ex. HUD icon pointing to closet non-alien player)

 

I think that'll solve most of the game-breaking stuff. Balance discussion's another story.

 

[MarkvA]

Heh, perfect timing. I've started working on the game mode about an hour ago (so far I've added end of round feedback of the round). This feedback's extremely useful!

[Fj45]

 

Remove the AI/borg. Its silly, doesn't make any damned sense, they are very buggy and its just another thing to balance. No reason to have them.

 

The multitile sprites for xenos also makes using ballistic weapons difficult, the game was just not really made to handle them.

 

Xenos should have to wait a few seconds to place nests and whatnot, its pretty silly to see them suddenly place one down while running around a table.

 

Weeds should decay better without a nest as currently they are very hard to clear.

 

Xenos can also EVA very well and place weeds on the outside of the station easily, while slightly nerfed by the sec pod, it is still very easy to abuse and it means with even a fully armed lynch mob of pain, you just cannot keep the xenos down. They are really just too mobile with vent crawling+EVA.

 

Flamethrowers and incendiary grenades are currently useless and a great way to kill yourself. With the incendiary weapons crate, you might want to have two types of grenades: room clearer that works like the current one but is less shit and a more controlled basic nade.

 

 

Just a few issues I have with xeno, feel free to ignore me though.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

My opinion, is that most of Xenos need a revert to their pre-game mode status and balanced from there.

 

The fact that players can control facehuggers dramatically impacts the way Xeno is played--they went from a co-ordinate+attack+drag back to nest playstyle to "kill everyone in sight and endlessly spam facehuggers"strategy--because facehuggers are able to be controlled by players people will literally just spam an area endlessly until something sticks. Hardly anyone ever attempts to capture individuals anymore for the hive--general strat is just to spam so many it overwhelms medbay's surgery capacity. Playing as a hugger isnt' particularly fun, either; it's just--hold down a key and run at someone (playing as the Xenos, themselves, however, is VERY fun). Xeno's being able to be taken over by players also generates a similar issue as it encourages spam as opposed to a co-ordinated, thought out strategy.

 

In short: Respawn as NPC+Xeno I don't feel is good for the mode as it doesn't encourage a meaningful gameplay pattern and leads to a lot of balance issues that can't really be resolved.

 

I'll all echo FJ's sentiments as well about the alien AI/borg; it's not logical from a lore/backstory standpoint and it fundamentally alters the way the way the mode is played (and unnecessarily buffs the binary encryption device by giving anyone who makes it a channel to talk on that can never be spied on but by someone with another binary encryption key).

 

The station had xeno spawns all over for a reason...

 

And yeah, the gigantic sprites have been problematic since day 1

 

[Fj45]

 

Note: for the love of all atmos techs, remove the damned xeno spawn in the airmix and plasma tanks!

 

 

I should also add:

 

Currently xeno ending is pretty broken, calling the shuttle effectively does not exist past a certain point, ERT units will get picked off (and the pool of ghosts will drop so no extra squads) deathsquad is admin only and really the only way to get any kind of "end" is for everyone left to either die (and that takes forever) or for anyone left to rush the ERT shuttle and get to Centcom. I think both then need an admin to end the round.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

Adding my thoughts to this, since i actually enjoy playing xenos. But the hidden kind of xeno not the full frontal approach xeno gamemode.

 

I think it's kind of fun, building a small base somewhere in maintenance and snack the poor fellows walking by, until you're strong enough to be more offensive. But there are two major problems with this.

 

First, the current map. Maintenance has become very small and short, there are very little parts that don't serve particular function. There basicly is no more hidden hiding place, except maybe for the incinerator. Since more and more departments have been just been patchworked onto the station, a lot of maintenance got cut by hallways, like to the mechanic workshop, or the maintenance between science and medbay. Leaving the xenos with very little space and threatened from all sides. Additionally the server population can get very high, so you can expect every area that serves a purpose to be occupied by the crew.

 

The second is that xenos have no way to cut coms. If the attacked human is only half retarded, then he will probably get a coms scream off: "Help xenos!". At this point you are f'ed, because security just raids the fully stocked armory and blasts you away. Maybe add a "abillity" to xenos to interrupt coms, that just sets all headsets in a certain arrea to not transmitting, like the singulairty does when you come to close it.

 

So to get the real xeno experience going again, i think the map needs to change and add a lot more semi useless areas (like the bar) where you can to hidden stuff and xenos should maybe get a way to iterrupt nearby headsets.

 

 

Regarding the xeno gamemode in particular:

- Playing the Xeno AI is incredibly boring. I don't even know where to begin. It's a half finished "job" that is more like a punishment.

- The Xeno borg doesn't really fit into the gamemode, he can't even recharge in a normal xeno nest, but at least he is somewhat usefull.

- The fact that normal borgs and AI use the same :b as the Xeno ones + the super obvious names like Xeno borg and Xeno AI destroy every stealth approach.

- The multi tile sprites look cool but are a pain in the ass to deal with, you hit yourself way to often.

 

tl;dr:

Scratch the xeno gamemode completely and make the good old hidden xeno playstyle viable again.

 

[MarkvA]

Pull request is up.

[Bone White]

 

make them more lethal in hand to hand combat.

 

The idea behind the xenos though is to capture people alive for breeding. Arguably only Praetorians should be lethally minded. I'd love to see a change where being on help intent as a xeno will stop you causing fatal damage, but enough to crit/ko them, so you can drag them to a nest for breeding.

 

[MarkvA]

There's ways to do that. The disarm intent knocks them out, and the neurotoxin will also down them.

[Fj45]

Thanks for that Mark, I very much look forward to some good xeno modes!

[Midaychi]

Anyone notice that larva can survive twenty+ laser shots to the chest?

[Fj45]

Oh god don't tell me that bug is back again.

[Midaychi]

 

Yeah I was watching some fights as a ghost on one alien round, with lasers flying like it was a glittercladding rainbow dance. People were bitching eachother out for friendly fire and stuff but I was looking at the attack logs and a lot of those laser shots hit the single larva they were benny hill chasing for like 10 minutes before it died. This happened once in research and a second time in the escape shuttle.

 

I also think they had to melee it to death both times.

 

Maybe they can only survive two or three hits still, but they regenerate fast enough that running around lets them get their health back?

 

[MarkvA]

I just tested it: one shot downs the larva (and it doesn't regenerate), two kills it.

[Kluys]

Aliens have a spawn point near arrivals which allows for some very meta situations by camping both the location where new players arrive and the location where ert members arrive

[MarkvA]

 

Aliens have a spawn point near arrivals which allows for some very meta situations by camping both the location where new players arrive and the location where ert members arrive

There's a thread about that here.

 

[Plotron]

 

I just tested it: one shot downs the larva (and it doesn't regenerate), two kills it.

 

I just had an alien round. We shot the larva like 20 times with energy guns and it was still going strong.

 

All larvas were a pain in the ass to kill, whether melee or not.

LOOC was even talking about immortal larvas.

 

[Midaychi]

 

I just tested it: one shot downs the larva (and it doesn't regenerate), two kills it.

Well, just as with the medbot bug where 'it totally works I just tested it on my solo server', why don't you try watching an alien round on live?

 

 

I saw a single larva get danced around a single room full of four humans and a ninja all trying to kill it, the amount of hits on the larva via lasers was up in the 30+ range in addition to melee hits (I was watching the attack logs and counting), and they eventually escaped the room anyways and had to be killed as a hunter that died in like 4 laser shots.

 

[Plotron]

Yeah, we're talking about the same round. It was insane.

[MarkvA]

 

I just tested it: one shot downs the larva (and it doesn't regenerate), two kills it.

Well, just as with the medbot bug where 'it totally works I just tested it on my solo server', why don't you try watching an alien round on live?

 

 

I saw a single larva get danced around a single room full of four humans and a ninja all trying to kill it, the amount of hits on the larva via lasers was up in the 30+ range in addition to melee hits (I was watching the attack logs and counting), and they eventually escaped the room anyways and had to be killed as a hunter that died in like 4 laser shots.

If you're giving me that attitude, you can go and fix it yourself Midaychi.

 

ADMIN LOG: MarkvA/(alien hunter (656)) created a /mob/living/carbon/human/human

ADMIN LOG: MarkvA/(alien hunter (656)) created a /mob/living/carbon/alien/larva

ADMIN LOG: MarkvA/(alien hunter (656)) assumed direct control of the unknown.

energy gun is now set to kill.

You fire the energy gun!

alien larva (297) is hit by the laser in the chest!

You fire the energy gun!

alien larva (297) is hit by the laser in the chest!

The alien larva (297) lets out a waning high-pitched cry.

 

[Midaychi]

 

The point pretty much flew past already. I can't even see it on doppler anymore.

 

More specifically:

 

- There is a phenomena that has occurred and been observed by multiple people on a populated live server multiple times over multiple rounds on a recent codebase.

 

- You have recently tested the same phenomena on the same (or at least very nearly the same) codebase under personal and not populated conditions and found it not to happen.

 

What you're saying: This is definitive proof that this bug doesn't exist, and I'll shank ya if you give me any more sass boy.

 

[Plotron]

Different topic: alienq queen sprite? Can't we just shrink the big ones so that the alien queen won't look like a damned hunter?

[MarkvA]

Midaychi, where exactly did I say that the bug doesn't exist? I said I couldn't reproduce it locally. When you start using such a tone against me, a volunteer who is spending his free time to improve the server, then that's reason enough for me not to help you.

[Plotron]

 

I'm sensing some butthurt.

 

Basically:

a) bug can not be reproduced locally,

b) bug has been seen a couple of times on live server and confirmed by multiple witnesses,

c) a plan must be devised on how to identify the cause and/or reproduce it consistently (live or locally).

 

We're all on the same team, remember?

 

Also: it's a global problem (not a personal one) and we're just reporting it here.

 

EDIT:

It's a moot point now. It was just tested on live and it's real, bug fixing is in progress.

 

[MarkvA]

Fox and I did some testing in the admin room, and there's a fix. It doesn't resolve the cause, but upping the health to 30 does make them killable. The cause most likely lies with the server's config anyway, so it's not something I can fix in the first place.