Regens - Fireaxes

[Wintermote]

 

Yesterday, I had a round where I'd been playing atmos tech. Among the first things I'd usually do were grab the fireaxe and vox hardsuit.

 

Midway through the round, I'm in maintenance and happen on security trying to get over to the research shuttle (where a death alarm had gone off), I offered to hack open the doors for them, and we proceeded to the shuttle. On the way there, we came across the guy who'd killed the captain (IIRC, it was the captain), a firefight ensued, security tased themselves, and I started getting shot at by the guy with a pistol, so I chopped him up with the axe.

 

Regens felt that this was powergaming and nearly banned me at this point. After a little arguing with him, I put the fireaxe back. I haven't touched the axe since except when spiders or the like get out, or I'm an antagonist.

 

Today, I had a traitor objective to assassinate someone. After killing them, I grabbed the axe to chop off their head and hide it separate from the body.

On my way to put the axe back, Regens logged in, and the first thing he seemingly did was message me with,

 

 

-- Click the Game Admin's name to reply --

 

PM from-Game AdminRegens: Smart move

 

 

Before apparently even checking if I was an antagonist.

 

Am I going to have to never touch the fireaxe while regens is online? Whether antagonist or not? Or do I have to PM an admin every time I want to touch it?

Just when, exactly am I allowed to grab the fireaxe as an atmos tech? There is no written rule here, and I get different answers from different admins and players.

 

What I'd like is clarification on fireaxes, and for regens to ease off on me. I feel like I'm under a microscope because of my last admin complaint about him. Preferentially if any issues crop up in the future, I do not want regens handling them with me. I'd like to ask a different admin get involved at this point.

 

[Fj45]

 

My "rule" for the fireaxe is that it stays in its case, locked, until things go FUBAR or something is possibly going down (such as grabbing it to rescue an engie from a greyshirt or something)

 

I really don't see how having it and logically using it is exactly power gaming though.

 

[Regen]

 

All I saw was you putting the fire axe back right after me "showing" that I have joined the server, It simply looked like you had taken it despite me telling you not to, and put it back in hopes of me not noticing.

 

Regens felt that this was powergaming and nearly banned me at this point.

Didn't know you had the power to anticipate just what I am about to do? Or are you just trying to make this like I am even worse?

 

I've had other people complain about me, I don't hold a grudge against them. But as others have said, we do not like it when people just take the fire axe for no reason other than "I like to have it".

 

[Wintermote]

 

One of the reasons I played atmos was because I thought they had free reign to the axe. You informed me this was not the case in an aggressive manner; the tone in your adminhelps was very clearly: Do what I say or you will be banned. So I put the fireaxe back. Why else would you adminpm me accusing me of metagaming if your words did not carry a threat of banning?

 

Or to put it another way, it did not feel like you were helpfully informing me, it felt like you were threatening me.

 

I am not "trying to make you look bad", your actions, whether or not they make you look bad at all, are your own. I simply want to play and enjoy the game; not powergame through it and 'kill the antags', nor deal with admins breathing down my neck over any little thing I do. That is why I haven't really touched the axe since you messaged me about it, and why I didn't make a thread about it until you started getting on my case for a situation today where it was entirely justified for me to have and use the axe.

 

That didn't strike me as very fair or unbiased treatment when it happened. Felt more like I'm being watched for any kind of fuckup so you can justifiably ban me.

 

Here is the conversation we had yesterday:

 

-- Click the Game Admin's name to reply --

PM from-Game AdminRegens: So ehm, why do you have a fireaxe as an engineer running around chopping people up?..

 

PM to-Regens: I always carry a fireaxe

PM to-Regens: And... he had a syndicate pistol and was shooting me...

 

PM from-Game AdminRegens: That just strenghents my point of obvious metagaming

PM to-Regens: what

 

PM from-Game AdminRegens: "I always carry the most robust weapon on the station"

 

PM from-Game AdminRegens: Its flat out metagaming

PM to-Regens: Dude, I'm an atmos tech, I have access to the fireaxe and I like to use it

PM from-Game AdminRegens: Your ID says otherwise

PM to-Regens: Were you playing as the guy we just killed?

PM from-Game AdminRegens: No, I am not playing this round

PM to-Regens: I got engineer access added because we needed engineers

 

PM from-Game AdminRegens: And still you think its fine to run around, as an atmostech with a fireaxe playing security? Its meta gaming and so bad RP

PM to-Regens: Security needed help getting inside the shuttle man

PM to-Regens: I hacked the doors and helped them

PM to-Regens: This honestly seems like some kind of retribution for what happened yesterday after my admin complaint

 

PM from-Game AdminRegens: Eh, you can call it whatever, we used to have a mentor who also always grabbed the fireaxe, this is no different

 

PM from-Game AdminRegens: At any rate, stop taking the fireaxe whenever you please. It is known to be the most robust weapon, and it is poor RP

 

PM from-Game AdminRegens: I need some form of confirmation here, are we clear?

 

PM to-Regens: Do you want me to put it back? I don't even understand why we have a fireaxe if atmos techs cannot even use it

 

PM from-Game AdminRegens: its supposed to be to break into areas that are inaccessable, you can pry open doors and break windows with it easily, it is not yours to take at the start of the round to carry on your back the whole round

PM from-Game AdminRegens: There is a reason it is behind glass

PM to-Regens: I've seen plenty of people treat it as such

PM to-Regens: I feel like I'm being singled out by you specifically

PM to-Regens: For reasons that have nothing to do with what matters in the game

PM to-Regens: But I will go put it back in the lockbox thing

PM from-Game AdminRegens: That may be so, that would be your word against mine, I can tell you its not, but I doubt you'd believe me

 

 

And since this is as good a time as any, I also wanted to ask for clarification on when and where I can use the axe, because I'm not actually out to be an ass to people by powergaming as much as I can get away with, but I do have to ask why the axe is accessible to atmos techs the way it is if it isn't meant to be used during anything but emergencies under threat of being banned by admins if you do - that strikes me then as something that should be coded, rather than existing as an unwritten rule enforced to different arbitrary degrees by different people.

 

[Basilisk132mm]

 

Good news, everyone! Fireaxe was nerfed to almost half it's strength, it's not the most robust shit on the station anymore! Better grab a toolbox to get those baldies.

 

 

But yeah, before the nerf, having the fireaxe 4noraisin was veeeery frowned upon. And because of it's visibility, it's a good way to get an admin to follow you to see if you aren't a troublemaker vigilante.

 

[FreeStylaLT]

 

Well, I don't know why Wintermote had to get the short end of the stick regarding the axe, since I see a lot of techs have it on them for no reason at all, notably L.U.N.A., who, to my knowledge, has it out, like all the time.

 

It's a powerful melee item to have with at all times, but you DO sacrifice backpack slot for it, which can be considered a potent drawback by some. However, to me, personally, it seems to be a cost too small for something that gives a clear advantage in most melee engagements that don't involve stuns (as rare as those are nowadays). This is mostly because it's meant to be an emergency tool for emergencies and using it with the same attitude as fj45 is mostly the way it's been intended, to my knowledge.

 

So, having it out casually, for no eligible emergency-related reason, is, in pretty much any way you can think of, powergaming. The bad kind too, it's not keeping a full toolbelt or a big oxygen tank on you for emergencies, we're talking about one of the most potent melee weapons in terms of damage you can get your hands on as a regular, non-antag player. There are only two in the entire station, and there's no way to legitimately acquire more of them. That's not something you should be having on your person without an emergency, no matter how cool it looks.

 

On the other hand, if you're a traitor, it's exactly what you'd want if you're planning on not spending any TCs for combat, or bought a bundle and got a hacker set when your objective is to assassinate someone. (This happens way too often to me.)

The issue here is, that, if you were to enforce a non-powergaming rule regarding carrying the axe, then the traitor would become a gleaming, shining, red-alert to anyone aware of that rule, as they wouldn't be carrying the axe with them otherwise without a seemingly real purpose. Now, whether this is a real issue or not is up for debate, since, again it's a good weapon, so if you want to use it, you'd have to tell everyone that you are, indeed, up to no good, if carrying it around during a calm period of the shift.

 

Personally, I just hate seeing that fucking thing on their fucking backs at the start of the shift. I also am mainly projecting my hatred of this habit that LUNA has.

 

[Regen]

 

Well.. Yeah? Of course it would make antags stand out like crazy when they're running around with a Fire axe on their backs in code green.

This is why it is allowed for antags, but you're risking something for having one of the best melee weapons in the game.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

I don't personally have a problem with an atmostech running around with the fire-axe all the time, as I do consider it a perk to an otherwise fairly mundane job . That said, I also think you should deal with the IC ramifications for it as well; if sec takes it away because you're roaming the halls with it for no reason what so ever, then that's your own damn fault. I do prefer it, from a gameplay perspective, when players behave more like FJ and Co when using it; keep the damn thing locked up until you really need it---but still, I don't think players should automatically be pinged for owning it.

 

Ultimately, I'd rather punish the player for abusing the axe rather than just having it; we don't punish the chef for getting a cleaver, which has the sharp flag, a force of 15 (!) and is insanely easy to conceal---likewise, we don't punish people for making spears, either (force of 18 and also has the sharp flag). While 6 extra force on the fire-axe is quite a bit, I don't think it warrants it being treated differently from other melee weapons, especially considering it's highly visible, there's only two, and as others have mentioned, it has a much much lower and reasonable force rating on it now. Hell, I'd even go as far as to compare it to the hypospray; that thing is one of the best combat weapons in the entire gamer, and no one bats an eye if the CMO carries it around 24/7; yes, it can be abused, but I think it's best to punish for abuse and not potential abuse.

 

The fireaxe does have a purpose, mechanically; it breaks windows and grilles in one and only one hit (it also functions as a crowbar); this is independent of its force rating.