monkeysfist101 Posted December 28, 2014 Posted December 28, 2014 Recently, security's carrying capacity has been diminished. The slots on the belt have been dropped and the webbing vest has been removed. A quick check of the changelog will show that there's nothing recorded on this. When I first A-helped this, the mentors and one admin (I forget which) didn't know why the vests were gone and believed that a player had removed them. It wasn't until several days later that, upon a second A-help, Fox confirmed that he had removed them and the hailer. After several messages back and forth, Fox told me that it was removed to prevent security members from bringing six flashbangs and so that the security team will have to carefully plan what gear they bring. To put this into perspective, in a blue/green alert when you should not be wearing your armor/helmet/gas mask, if you want to carry the items in a security locker (not including extra gear such as a second flashbang, megaphone, medical supplies, etc...) you bring yourself down to ONE available inventory slot. Fox told me that he believes that to free up inventory space, you should leave some of your non-offensive gear. The problem with this is that each tool that security has has a purpose. The flash disables synthetics and blinds organics., the pepperspray brings down unshielded organics, and the taser and the stun baton bring down both organics and synthetics. The pepperspray and flash are specialized, but are a one-hit-subdue while the taser and stun baton are the most used, but require multiple hits. This means that you can bring specialized gear and leave the taser and stub baton, but be useless against everyone with sunglasses, or you can bring the taser and stunbaton and risk people getting away because the game decided that the first three stuns didn't bring them down. The problem that security now faces is that they have to decide between carrying their gear and picking up contraband. I can understand removing the hailer as it was rarely used, but nerfing security over something that people were not complaining about is the wrong way to go. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 28, 2014 Posted December 28, 2014 It's been discussed already. There is at least one discussion thread somewhere. Pre-inventory nerf when I was a bodyguard I used to carry some medical supplies, a pair or two of handcuffs and all the security gear from the locker you could imagine (I loved the hailer) + a pinpointer in the webbing vest to quickly locate the captain. Now? It's either put everything in a medkit (takes extra time to get these supplies out) or skimp on your handcuffs (and pepperspray, and a bunch of other things). It's rather hard as there isn't much space (if any) remaining for vital shit. Well, at least it's harder to be a human supercop now. Also: since when do tasers and batons NOT take a single hit to stun? Were these changes reverted already? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson1027 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I will +1 this. I could understand if any antags actually made a rp effort but in most situations actions speak louder than words. Because of this you need a large plethora of gear or else sec officers are going to be insta wrecked. With that said I would say keep the changes but make each department have a sec kiosk like medical does. quite honestly if you had enough in each kiosk for one or two officers to be able to change gear out to handle a situation in that department it implements the changes but makes it where sec does not have to stop doing their job to return to the brig just to change then head back. I would say bring back the vesting for cops. Limit the number of flash bangs available (there are like nine million laying around) Make it where the sec belt had one or two more slots. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep the seclite. I always wanted a maglite to beat people with and behold! I have it. Form and function. If nothing was implemented make more sec monitoring huts (one for each department) Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Security is NOT getting wrecked. The balance is currently okay in most cases. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fj45 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Security had far too much carrying capacity before but the nerf went too far, utility items are now useless and inventory management may as well be Tetris. Removing the webbing vest was a good idea (it was broken as all hell) but the sec belt really needs two or three slots back. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson1027 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Security is NOT getting wrecked. The balance is currently okay in most cases. Don't get me wrong I want to believe this. But since I came back, sec is terrible (more so than normal). When the clown makes for a more effective officer than the entire sec team barring the seasoned players, somethings up. With that said I just want to see a tiny increase in suit slots. Like i said if nothing else just have sec huts. also, LET ME FIT MY TAZER ON MY BELT. Gah I hate having to carry it in backpack or on belt. My sec item ocd goes crazy when its all not together. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 It's not caused by lack of inventory slots. It's caused by the greytide that joined the server. They're new. They're terribad. Clowns are usually played by robust players. They're smart. Skill>gear in this case. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereticChurch Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I haven't really had too much of a problem with inventory. As an officer, I grab my armor and keep it on all the time, and keep the taser mounted on the exosuit storage. My pockets have a flash and a pair of handcuffs, and my belt has the seclite, cuffs, spray, a flashbang, and the stun baton. I don't see myself using anything more than what's here, and if I need to, I can grab more flashbangs and put them in a box. That leaves my backpack with my internals box, which I can fill with spare flashbangs if I really feel like getting them, and an evidence bag box. If I hear of breaches or gas leaks, I pack a sec gas mask, and I bring my helmet along all the time to put on if I feel threatened. Plenty of room for contraband or other stuff... I never even used the webbing vest except for storing donuts before it was removed. Inventory management isn't really that bad. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Playing pod pilot is horrendous in terms of space now... At least put one or two more slots into the belt and let it carry the damn taser again. The black webbing removal was really all that needed to be removed, MAYBE one or two belt slots. We didn't need to port /tg/security over. A few edits would have done nicely. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fj45 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 LET ME FIT MY TAZER ON MY BELT That STILL isn't fixed?! Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreadweaver Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Here's the loadout I use every time I play shitcurity. Jumpsuit, jackboots, armor vest, beret, naturally. Box (with breath mask and full tank + security tape, bounced radio, crowbar), evidence bag box (sometimes, I put the tape in this one), cigarettes and lighter (optional), medikit, whatever the fuck I need currently. Taser on armor. Seclite and cuffs in pockets. Baton, flash, flashbang and two more pairs of cuffs in the secbelt. Worket out perfectly every time so far. Never has been ONE situation where I wished I had more equipment. Maybe a flashbang or two, but that can be solved with the spare bag/box slots. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson1027 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 LET ME FIT MY TAZER ON MY BELT That STILL isn't fixed?! God I wish. Muh mersions are broke when i can't fit in on. Please FJ sama help. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 It's all about putting things in boxes. You can carry as much shit as you want - it just takes MUUUCH more effort to take it all out and use it. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fj45 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Exactly, and sometimes you need tape quickly, greytide moves fast. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysfist101 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 Regarding having gear in the backpack, have you ever seen police arrive at a crime scene and start digging through a backpack to get their gun and handcuffs? Honestly, security shouldn't need to use their pockets or backpack to hold necessary gear. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 As a few other have pointed out, it just requires a bit to adjust to; you're not longer a walking armory, but you still have more than enough slots to hold all your necessary equipment. If you're concerned about code green, you really shouldn't be; there's no restriction on wearing armor or helmets at any code level; it's recommend at code level blue, but it's by no means barred at any security level (likewise, even if it were not allowed it's largely a non-issue as the security level is always elevated to blue at 1-2 minutes in). Armor itself is capable of holding a variety of guns (this includes advanced tasers!) ammo, or even a telebaton. A sec belt has 5 slots; you can easily fit your baton, pepperspray, flash, seclite, and police tape here--sec light really isn't even a "must have" considering you have a PDA light and your baton is better for bludgeoning things. If you don't take the seclite (or pepper spray), then that's 2 slots for flashbangs or handcuffs. You still have two pockets, which allows for more handcuffs or flashbangs. Then there's your backpack, which, if you take the evidence bag leaves you with 5 additional slots to utilize for whatever they like--evidence/contraband, more flashbangs, more handcuffs, a laser/energy gun, or some even some delicious frosted donuts. Five completely free slots is a lot when you're already the most well-equipped, heavily armed, and heavily armored job on the station (and you can expand it further by utilizing techniques already listed in this thread). Even the Syndis weren't as slot efficient as officers were before this nerf came along--and they're damn slot efficient due to their nature of being 5 vs 20+. Officers have enough equipment and slots to effectively deal with what their job entails; to protect the station and deal with lawbreakers---they're not meant to be a paramilitary force inhabiting the station. As for consulting with individuals: I consulted with Dave on this one as he is, by far, the most security experienced admin that we have--he was completely in favor of them and had recommended them in the past. As for changelog--life can just get busy sometimes: Regens primarily tries to update the changelog, here on the forums, the absolute best he can, but we all have lives outside of SS13 and we just get busy sometimes. I made a post on the changelog that links directly to the github--when any of the coders makes changes in PRs, we do our absolute best to document the changes; the security belt nerf+webbing was documented here, in this PR: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/2 If you'd like a more up to date change log, then I'd recommend reading closed+merged PRs (purple icon) as they're more "on the pulse" of change: https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradis ... s%3Aclosed Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/2978-bring-back-the-old-security-loadouts/#findComment-18250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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