MarkvA Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 On Paradise most, if not all jobs have maintenance access for some reason. What would everybody think about removing the maintenance access from many jobs that don't need it (similar to Bay or /tg/)? I'm currently on mobile, but I'll post more in-depth tomorrow. Just out of curiosity. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthdivine Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 The reason for the all maintence access was due to Ponies editing the access to the fire locks, to allow players a way out of fire/air locked areas rather then be forced to die inside of the hazard because they can't crowbar the locks open anymore. This isn't an opinion on this, thought I'd give some insight to why the access is like this. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Maintenance access is really handy for the times when you can't get to your workplace because the main hallways were damaged or depressurized. Although yeah, the access is typically abused. Personally I'm satisfied with what we have now. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheakhan Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I've played on a few servers with limited maintenance access. From a realistic standpoint, there is NO reason for most jobs to have it. Mechanics, Engineers, Heads, Security, Paramedic, Janitor. That's about the extent of who should be given maintenance access right off the bat. From a gameplay standpoint, I've made a cute little pro/con list: Pros of having maintenance access limits: -Realism -Limits ability of antags to do shady shit in the tunnels -Keeps maintenance foot traffic to a minimum for those who need to use them -Forces a more interactive playstyle with people using hallways for their intended purpose -Makes the revoking of maintenance access restrictions during radiation fields make sense -Makes maintenance passages safer on the whole -Restricts griefing to easily noticeable locations -Keeps nutjobs from stealing fuel tanks all the time -Keeps random people from swiping tools out of the tunnels so they are there when needed Cons: -Makes it harder for medical to get to people expeditiously or at all if they go down in maintenance passages -Buffs AI supercop by limiting number of camera-less places to do shady shit. -Limits access to fuel tanks to gen. pop during times of crisis; ie: blob rounds or biomass infestations -Severely limits the amount of interesting things for Civilians to do. -Makes traversing the station less efficient -Removes apprehension when entering maintenance passages, less likely to run into antags -Promotes hacking doors/breaking down walls to enter maintenance -Increases security's responsibility, as now anyone without maintenance access in the tunnels is trespassing. -Intensifies hull breach danger level by limiting the alternative routes between two points in the event the main passage is dangerous/depressurized. I'm on the fence here. On one hand, I've dealt with it before and it was not enjoyable as a Civilian (which promotes civilians getting a fuckin' job like an adult). On the other hand, it might help out with our current greytide issues, seriously limiting the stupid shit civilians can get up to, and keeping the maintenance passages as a business only area. If it were up to me, I'd implement it and start taking feedback/votes after a few days to see how it was received and how well the server functioned with limited access. Note: Upon reflection (for two seconds) I think we should implement taking Civilian maintenance access away first and foremost, entirely due to the current greytide issues. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreadweaver Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 BRING BACK STAFF ASSISTANTS Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Just my own opinions. If we are to do this, then I'd recommend these changes as well: Firedoors: -Transparent (will require sprite changes for IC reasons) -No ID lock -Can ONLY be opened/closed via crowbar (or fire alarm pulling) Transparency is mostly to see if there's gas/a fire or if the zone air alarm is flashing on the other side Ultimately means that yes, more idiots forcing the locks when they shouldn't, but it also means that you have some chance of escaping a fire or depressurization--if we re-add maintenance access without including this, a lot of people are going to start dying to atmos issues. Note: Upon reflection (for two seconds) I think we should implement taking Civilian maintenance access away first and foremost, entirely due to the current greytide issues. They don't have maintenance access, currently Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheakhan Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I guess now that you mention it, the only civilian I play never went into maintenance tunnels anyway. Weird. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone White Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 My belief about maintenance is that it should be specifically access only (engineering, paramedic, heads of departments) except in emergencies (radstorm, red alert, etc). However, I also believe firelocks should be only operable by engineers and heads of departments, through id swiping them. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceTimeNow Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I kinda like how it works right now, everyone is able to open firelocks without blinking lights (atmosphere difference) and only a selective few can open firelocks with active warnings. Unfortunately this also means that it won't let you escape out of dangerous areas. I think it would be best if we could somehow achieve that the airlocks are smart enough to notice on which site of the firelock i am standing when i am clicking it. If i am inside an area that has a dangerous atmosphere it should open up regardless of warnings (maybe with a yes/no question pop-up). If i am standing on the other side where the atmosphere is not dangerous, then the firelock should still refuse to open. If both sides are dangerous it would open from both ways. This way people could escape out of dangerous situtations and would have to evaluate for themselfs if it's worth possibly saving themselfs and endanger everyone on the other side. In short: I don't know how atmos-coding works but i would assume that it is possible to test the tile the person is standing on and if this tile has a dangerous atmosphere then the firelock opens. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
michellebaren Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I think maintenance access is fine right now. It may not make sense for all jobs to have access to it, sure, but it livens up the gameplay a little with the possibilities it provides to player antagonists. Restricting it to only heads/engineers only makes (mainly engineers) more powerful in a gaming perspective. They've already got access to go outside station using airlocks (easier to space bodies), all the tools you could ask for, insulated gloves.. blah. Now with them potentially having maintenance all to themselves they could just leave bodies in there in a a locker and they'd likely never ever get found due to SEC not having access. This is a low/medium RP server so realism doesn't matter as much. Too much realism hinders gameplay too. If you're gonna change something like this think hard of the gameplay repercussions, please. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I think it would be best if we could somehow achieve that the airlocks are smart enough to notice on which site of the firelock i am standing when i am clicking it. If i am inside an area that has a dangerous atmosphere it should open up regardless of warnings (maybe with a yes/no question pop-up). If i am standing on the other side where the atmosphere is not dangerous, then the firelock should still refuse to open. If both sides are dangerous it would open from both ways. This way people could escape out of dangerous situtations and would have to evaluate for themselfs if it's worth possibly saving themselfs and endanger everyone on the other side. Wow, nice idea. You can't blame people for trying to save themselves! Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermote Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Restrict access Have access restrictions lifted whenever the station is at code red or higher. If security or the heads don't want people in maintenance, then they can lower the alert level so it's no longer an emergency. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Restrict accessHave access restrictions lifted whenever the station is at code red or higher. Doesn't that go againt the notion of effectively having police state at red? Why would you let criminals go into maintenance since red alert is mostly to fight the said criminals (weapons unholstered, random searches)? Makes no sense. Something has to change. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermote Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Well then there needs to be something for an emergency situation to allow people to use maintenance to get around spaced areas. Incentive for the heads not to keep things at red alert all the time seems good to me. Red Alert shouldn't be for regular traitors - that's blue alert. Red Alert is when you've got reports of xenos, blob, nuke ops and so forth. Emergency situations where having the crew able to run around is a good thing. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Well then there needs to be something for an emergency situation to allow people to use maintenance to get around spaced areas. "Grant Emergency Access" on Authenticators exists for a reason. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 We already have a separate revoke maintenance access requirement button. It works well when you're fighting blob or other things. And IMO blue alert is the intelligence gathering phase - we know something's wrong, but we have no idea where to begin or who's our real target. Red alert would be for the elimination of the target. Or when you know you can't let the shuttle come (Space Ebola outbreak, cultists everywhere, revolution). Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson1027 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Id go for this if we bring back crowbar able emergency shutters. I love pod pilot but in situations where I am one of the few sec members who can help a area that has been destroyed and is spaced, I loose a fair amount of people to the uncrowbarable mechanic. Since implementation it has forced players to break into areas causing a much larger issue with atmos content.I will take a good example of if I have to save the warden or hos from a spaced zone of the station I am going to break a window or a wall down and get to them before they die. This causes engineering to have to work a little harder just to fix holes crew have made to try and save people because shutters can't and wont open now even with brute force. With that said maintenance access should be limited barring when heads decide it is a viable alternative. The heads swiping consoles does have ability remove and allow access on it. I feel people like security,heads, engineering, janitorial, and maybe even medical need tunnel access. With that said, there needs to be a counter balance. Gloves for antags or players in general need to become prominent compared to normal circumstances. Right now, maintenance is a heavy antag tool and is quite favorable to those wishing to conceal their actions. If they have no easy way other than breaking in with a emag then there is no real benefit other than putting the crew in favorable position to catch them. You need to be able to get into maintenance tunnels as a antag and be sneaky doing it. This promotes better game skills and general robustness. If you can learn to hack a door quickly and slip into maintenance when the coppers are looking for you, it becomes a valuable tool to those capable of using it. still though +1 because I hate being alone with a clown/mime in maintenance. Those ungodly abominations should not have access. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I prefer how it is now, honestly. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3080-take-away-maintenance-access-from-many-jobs/#findComment-18951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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