Remove Stun Baton from Research Outpost

[michellebaren]

 

It's possible I'm wrong but I suspect the only reason the Stun Baton is there to begin with is so Xenoarchaeologist's can activate artifacts with an energetic interaction trigger.

 

However, far too often I see antag Scientist's loot it at the start of a round and use it as a free tool (a very strong one at that) to assist them with their objectives.

 

As such as the title says I suggest the removal of the Stun Baton from the Research Outpost. Replace it with a Multitool instead, because I believe those work for Energetic interaction triggers as well and are far less of a powergamey tool for antag Scientists to just scoop up at round start.

 

If Scientist's really want/need their stun weapon they should have to obtain it like every other non-SEC crew member. that is make a Stun Prod for themselves. They've already all of the resources available to them at round start for that anyway.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Just checked on this; you're absolutely right that the multitool works---had I known this, I would have removed the baton a long time ago.

 

Funny you bring this up, too, as I was thinking about just this the other day, as the whole research station is kind a powergamers dreamland (looking at you, chem dispenser)....for a department that already has the largest array of powergamey tools available to it.

 

[Fj45]

 

Funny you bring this up, too, as I was thinking about just this the other day, as the whole research station is kind a powergamers dreamland (looking at you, chem dispenser)....for a department that already has the largest array of powergamey tools available to it.

 

 

Exactly, the research outpost is the perfect example of how not to map. Its is just so awful.

 

[michellebaren]

 

It is indeed a massively abuseable for powergaming due to the massive amount of resources it offers:

 

 

• Plasma Tanks & various gas cannisters -- Easily complete a certain traitor objective with this. Or atmos grief.

• Assuming you can get your hands on the correct pipes and an O2 cannister, you can convert the isolation chambers in to a bomb mixing lab. You've already got the Heaters/Freezers.

Three boxes of monkey cubes... If you get the needed boards from R&D (which anyone that has access to the outpost has) and if you're a Vampire/Changeling you can easily setup your very own mini genetics lab to produce humanized monkeys discretely.

Space Cleaner -- No need to buy Syndie Soap.

Easy access to space via mass driver or by simply leaving the outpost. Let's you get rid of bodies on outpost quickly if needed or allows you to escape..

 

 

Those are just some examples of some of its resources aside from the Chem Dispenser. Sorry for drifting off topic a bit there.

 

But anyway, honestly and perhaps possibly better suited for another thread I'd suggest taking away some of those resources and perhaps keeping Research Outpost to being accessable by only: RD, Xenoarch, Anomalist. Other crew in the Science division really does no work there at all anyway. This would of course go both ways as well. Xenoarch's and Anomalist's would no longer have access to R&D as well.

 

As it is right now, the current Research Outpost access for Scientist's would be equivalent to a Cargo Tech having access to the Mining Outpost... Which they've simply no need for.

 

[ZomgPonies]

 

I'd leave whatever's in the research outpost right now, as it can be used by anomalists.

 

I agree with leaving research outpost access limited to Xenoarch, Anomalist and RD only, while removing regular R&D access from from Xenoarch and Anomalist. This may require changing the permissions on a few doors in R&D to allow passage from the main R&D area to the research shuttle to these players.

 

[Fj45]

 

It is indeed a massively abuseable for powergaming due to the massive amount of resources it offers:

 

 

• Plasma Tanks & various gas cannisters -- Easily complete a certain traitor objective with this. Or atmos grief.

• Assuming you can get your hands on the correct pipes and an O2 cannister, you can convert the isolation chambers in to a bomb mixing lab. You've already got the Heaters/Freezers.

Three boxes of monkey cubes... If you get the needed boards from R&D (which anyone that has access to the outpost has) and if you're a Vampire/Changeling you can easily setup your very own mini genetics lab to produce humanized monkeys discretely.

Space Cleaner -- No need to buy Syndie Soap.

Easy access to space via mass driver or by simply leaving the outpost. Let's you get rid of bodies on outpost quickly if needed or allows you to escape..

 

 

Those are just some examples of some of its resources aside from the Chem Dispenser. Sorry for drifting off topic a bit there.

 

But anyway, honestly and perhaps possibly better suited for another thread I'd suggest taking away some of those resources and perhaps keeping Research Outpost to being accessable by only: RD, Xenoarch, Anomalist. Other crew in the Science division really does no work there at all anyway. This would of course go both ways as well. Xenoarch's and Anomalist's would no longer have access to R&D as well.

 

As it is right now, the current Research Outpost access for Scientist's would be equivalent to a Cargo Tech having access to the Mining Outpost... Which they've simply no need for.

 

 

Annnd:

 

Access to plenty of medical supplies.

 

A huge number of tiny hidden rooms with poor camera coverage that make the outpost a maze and the perfect place for antags to hide.

 

Space suits!

 

Firefighting equipment, hydroponics equipment, tools, metal and glass!

 

Even some randompower cell.

 

[Mrs Dobbins]

 

I don't see how it is any less balanced than the engi outpost.

Why not make it like the engi outpost? Very limited,

But the engi outpost is only used by antags saying "look what I built"l which normally ends up being an Esword to the face

 

[Streaky Haddock]

The Engineering Outpost has its own issues, but it's open and spacious compared to the research outpost, and it's often used by non-antags which isn't the same for the Research Outpost.

[MarkvA]

Stun baton will be replaced with a multitool next patch.

[Fj45]

 

I don't see how it is any less balanced than the engi outpost.

Why not make it like the engi outpost? Very limited,

But the engi outpost is only used by antags saying "look what I built"l which normally ends up being an Esword to the face

 

Please describe the issues with the engie outpost.

 

[belarion]

 

 

Please describe the issues with the engie outpost.

I wouldn't call them "issues", but the engie outpost does get a lot of stuff (nothing the science one doesn't get mind but still a lot), materials, atmos thingies, sleepers, that's all expected.

 

But come on dude they get a fucking microwave that's just OP.

 

[Fj45]

 

The (non-functional) sleepers were removed, the materials and atmos equipment is there to help anyone building things on the construction station, is your problem the fact that they get any extra equipment at all or the fact that its somehow causes balance issues? Please describe your problem in further detail.

 

 

 

and FYI, if I do manage to overhaul the research outpost, science will get a microwave as well!

 

[Mrs Dobbins]

 

I don't see how it is any less balanced than the engi outpost.

Why not make it like the engi outpost? Very limited,

But the engi outpost is only used by antags saying "look what I built"l which normally ends up being an Esword to the face

 

Please describe the issues with the engie outpost.

I don't have an issue with the engie outpost. It has a lot of wood on it, and some hardsuits (which, as an engineer/atmos tech, is readily available)

The lack of equipment vs the fact that the AI can't see what your doing creates the perfect balance

 

[Cineic]

 

But come on dude they get a fucking microwave that's just OP.

 

Nothing beats the warmed up donk pockets!

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

I'll be re-evaluating the research outpost soon and will likely clear off some of the more powergamey elements/features (like the monkey cubes, spray bottles, etc).

 

Chem master will require further thought, but giving them a beaker of water, sulfuric acid, welding fuel, and toxin---with a spare beaker and dropper will more than suffice for Xenoarch to do Xenoarch things (and this is reflected in the current map even, with all those pre-filled beakers); afterall, science can make their own chem-masters now.

 

[belarion]

 

I'll be re-evaluating the research outpost soon and will likely clear off some of the more powergamey elements/features (like the monkey cubes, spray bottles, etc).

 

Chem master will require further thought, but giving them a beaker of water, sulfuric acid, welding fuel, and toxin---with a spare beaker and dropper will more than suffice for Xenoarch to do Xenoarch things (and this is reflected in the current map even, with all those pre-filled beakers); afterall, science can make their own chem-masters now.

The research outpost is very bloated room wise, three test cells, two atmospherics rooms, four labs, two maintenance rooms, a big EVA area, a mini medbay, a massive break room, for an area devoted to two subsections its bigger than most full departments, its just too much.

 

I think we could just get away with reducing it to one medium sized anomaly room (with the analzyer/emitter/chemmaster) with a shuttle dock, and maybe one or two side rooms (including an EVA storage for the xenoarchs), everything is just dead-weight really that's never ever used.

 

[Plotron]

Yeah, too many small iso rooms. There should be two, in case one gets damaged.

[Fj45]

 

I'll be re-evaluating the research outpost soon and will likely clear off some of the more powergamey elements/features (like the monkey cubes, spray bottles, etc).

 

Chem master will require further thought, but giving them a beaker of water, sulfuric acid, welding fuel, and toxin---with a spare beaker and dropper will more than suffice for Xenoarch to do Xenoarch things (and this is reflected in the current map even, with all those pre-filled beakers); afterall, science can make their own chem-masters now.

The research outpost is very bloated room wise, three test cells, two atmospherics rooms, four labs, two maintenance rooms, a big EVA area, a mini medbay, a massive break room, for an area devoted to two subsections its bigger than most full departments, its just too much.

 

I think we could just get away with reducing it to one medium sized anomaly room (with the analzyer/emitter/chemmaster) with a shuttle dock, and maybe one or two side rooms (including an EVA storage for the xenoarchs), everything is just dead-weight really that's never ever used.

 

 

Exactly, forgot to mention that fully. It makes antags hiding out impossible to find and is simply unneeded bloat.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Exactly, forgot to mention that fully. It makes antags hiding out impossible to find and is simply unneeded bloat.

 

Quite frankly, I wish the research station was on another z-level entirely; one filled with rocks, but not resources--which solves two problems:

 

(1) Xenoarcheologists having to deal with miners or possibly monsters

(2) Self-sustainability. It's fairly trivial for a scientist to mine his own resources, then break into the mining outpost to refine his own materials. This will get worse once TG mining is finished, as they'll be able to build their own ore redemption machine and equipment vendor; they'll not only be able to mine+refine their own ores, but be able to get all the cool toys that are meant to be miner only.

 

[Fj45]

Maybe the syndie outpost could be moved to the derelict Z-level, and the research outpost moved over there?