Space Law overhaul

[Fox McCloud]

 

Clarity of application would be nice to outline as well, may fall more under SOP though.

 

Mostly due to a recent arrest of mine where I was double dipped with "Theft, and Accessory to theft".

 

Ahelp it if that happens, even under our current Space Law, that's absolutely not allowed.

 

[Innocent Fire]

 

This subject is something I've been annoyed with for a while. There's far too many things that are not in the space law that SHOULD be in space law, that people are abusing daily.

 

Such as giving away genetics to crew outside the lab, making viruses that are 'helpful' and releasing them onto the crew.

 

The laws need to be made specifically for specific areas of the station. The laws have so many holes in them that it's not even funny. A good lawyer would rip space law a new one, and there would be nothing anyone could do about it.

 

The fact that people get away with things like making genetic experiments and then parking them in-front of intercoms spewing filth from Tourettes and literally not getting any punishment is annoying.

 

I think admins need to step in a bit more when it comes to bad heads as well, because I've seen SO many captains that do not even know space law as it is currently. Head of personnels should NOT be handing out full access to the clown for shits and giggles, and even if I reported that to an admin no one would do anything about it. NT reps don't give a damn 90% of the time as well.

 

I know the station is 'fast paced' but lets be reasonable. Security's job is hard enough when there's 60+ crew members that are all doing whatever the fuck they want rather than working. This is a work place after all.

 

I've personally arrested many people for breaking laws and have had higher ups tell me to remove all charges because 'it's funny' or 'I don't care'. I'm tired of heads having favoritism towards their 'friends' or well known members of the station just because of their OOC status. This should be entirely against both the rules, and law. Security officers shouldn't have to deal with that.

 

I know a lot of people are like "SECURITY IS ALWAYS SHIT" well stop being a fucking retard and follow some damn laws or possibly, I don't know, do your fucking job and stay in your department once and a while and security wouldn't have to arrest so many people and having their patience tested on a daily bases.

 

With that being said, I would like to see some job specific laws that people would be bound to. Like for instance, geneticist should NOT be handing out hulk to civilians. This should be an immediate demotion with jail time.

 

Space law 107 - Misuse of Public Radio Channels should apply to genetic experiments as well, and the creators should be PUNISHED for having them wear headsets with the intent to pollute the comms. The reason I say this is because whenever I or someone else has tried to arrest someone for this, the head of security says they're not responsible, when they clearly are.

 

Virologist should NOT be making viruses with the intent to spread them to the station. There's a reason this job exists and it's NOT to give everyone on the station the ability to glow and run super fast. Not only is this dangerous to the crew, it makes containing criminals harder than it should be. This should be considered a biological threat and should be considered a medium to high offense and a demotion.

 

Head of personnel should NOT be handing out additional access without the consent of the proper department head. You shouldn't be giving an xenobiology access to toxins without the research directors go ahead. The reason for this is simple. It clutters departments and makes people who actually want to do their job annoyed because they have too many chefs in the kitchen, as they say. Also it makes knowing who's trespassing very difficult.

 

One thing that annoys me is people with additional access complaining that they're being arrested for being in a department they don't belong in because they have said access. It's not like security knows you have access to these areas. That's not their job. Head of personnel should inform security that specific people have additional access VIA security records or through communication.

 

 

I also believe that space law should have something for security borgs. Security borgs should be seen as officers, so people can stop complaining that "BORG YOU CAN NOT ARREST ME I AM CREW". Something that even though they're cyborgs, they're still an officer of the law, and will act accordingly and should be respected like anyone on the station.

 

[Fj45]

 

I know a lot of people are like "SECURITY IS ALWAYS SHIT" well stop being a fucking retard and follow some damn laws or possibly, I don't know, do your fucking job and stay in your department once and a while and security wouldn't have to arrest so many people and having their patience tested on a daily bases.

 

 

Coming from the guy who arrested me for having the fireaxe in escape...as an atmos tech....thats pretty funny.

 

[Innocent Fire]

 

I know a lot of people are like "SECURITY IS ALWAYS SHIT" well stop being a fucking retard and follow some damn laws or possibly, I don't know, do your fucking job and stay in your department once and a while and security wouldn't have to arrest so many people and having their patience tested on a daily bases.

 

 

Coming from the guy who arrested me for having the fireaxe in escape...as an atmos tech....thats pretty funny.

 

 

Just because you're an atmos guy doesn't mean you need to be wielding a fire axe in the hallway with NO FIRES. But seriously, I don't even remember arresting you. If I arrested you, it's for a good reason.

 

[Shadeykins]

 

The HoP randomly giving out access is considered neglect of duty/exceeding official powers (This also counts for the HoP empowering their ID) and is punishable with immediate demotion.

 

Not sure where you're seeing HoP's not getting punished for BS, because I've seen the HoP get demoted literally every other round for nonsense like that.

 

If the HoS says "I don't care" in regards to space law, ahelp it and they'll get job banned. It's their job to care about space law. With that said, priorities. If there's spiders on board, I too won't give a shit about genetic's demon tourettes child.

 

Geneticist giving out hulk powers is the same as arming the crew, and any dangerous powers given out can be treated as the equivalent of handing out e-guns, which is a neglect of duty charge/potentially grand sabo depending on how out of hand it gets. Personally, genetics is a department that IMHO should just be flat-out removed. It's a griefer tool.

 

Virologist giving out viruses without consent is a neglect of duty/potentially an act of grand sabotage depending on what the virus is. Demotable/punishable already (not to mention they get lynched)

 

Borgs are not "officers of the law", they are units bound to the current set of AI laws that have a various assortment of modules. Technically speaking, security borgs can throw space law out the window the moment the AI's laws do not require space law. GG.

 

Also, an atmos tech is allowed to have their axe out and around. This is something that's been brought before administration several times at this point. The axe allows fast breaking of windows to breach into critical areas in the event of an emergency. There's really no reason not to keep it handy as the atmos tech. It's no more contraband than the CE/CMO/RD having a flash/baton, or the HoP having an e-gun despite not being implanted/not being security.

 

[Hairy Ban Jhankri]

 

If the HoS says "I don't care" in regards to space law, ahelp it and they'll get job banned. It's their job to care about space law. With that said, priorities. If there's spiders on board, I too won't give a shit about genetic's demon tourettes child.

 

Yes, and no. Flag burning counts as 15 minutes in law, I guess. That is silly. That is shitcurity for brigging somebody just on those grounds alone. There are plenty of other examples like this.

 

Borgs are not "officers of the law", they are units bound to the current set of AI laws that have a various assortment of modules. Technically speaking, security borgs can throw space law out the window the moment the AI's laws do not require space law. GG.

 

Sort of. Under almost all standard law sets, the AI and borgs answer to all members of the crew, even the lowly assistants and clown. However, unless a higher ranking belays the order, then it is nullified. Should the captain or another head order a borg to do something early on, they stick to those orders unless otherwise stated. Sec borgs aren't officers right, they just have sec gear. Otherwise, all the borgs are pretty much the same; listen to the highest order, and deal with the orders as they best can. An engi borg can still detain somebody, although they are outfitted to deal with hull breaches and stuff. Does that make sense?

 

Also, an atmos tech is allowed to have their axe out and around. This is something that's been brought before administration several times at this point. The axe allows fast breaking of windows to breach into critical areas in the event of an emergency. There's really no reason not to keep it handy as the atmos tech. It's no more contraband than the CE/CMO/RD having a flash/baton, or the HoP having an e-gun despite not being implanted/not being security.

 

This one is kind of a bit far off base. The heads are allowed to have simple stun items, because they are heads, and they need to stay protected. An axe is not a stun tool, it is a tool meant for breaking down windows. An atmos tech is not a head. The axe is most often used as a weapon, and almost never used for what is meant to be used for. There are almost endless reasons to not carry it around, and pretty much only two reasons to carry it around.

 

[Fj45]

 

Also, an atmos tech is allowed to have their axe out and around. This is something that's been brought before administration several times at this point. The axe allows fast breaking of windows to breach into critical areas in the event of an emergency. There's really no reason not to keep it handy as the atmos tech. It's no more contraband than the CE/CMO/RD having a flash/baton, or the HoP having an e-gun despite not being implanted/not being security.

 

This one is kind of a bit far off base. The heads are allowed to have simple stun items, because they are heads, and they need to stay protected. An axe is not a stun tool, it is a tool meant for breaking down windows. An atmos tech is not a head. The axe is most often used as a weapon, and almost never used for what is meant to be used for. There are almost endless reasons to not carry it around, and pretty much only two reasons to carry it around.

 

Thing is though, carrying it around (and not stabbing anyone to death) is no reason to stun, cuff and brig.

 

In nearly all situations, its a case of "Put the fireaxe back when you can."

 

[Hairy Ban Jhankri]

 

Also, an atmos tech is allowed to have their axe out and around. This is something that's been brought before administration several times at this point. The axe allows fast breaking of windows to breach into critical areas in the event of an emergency. There's really no reason not to keep it handy as the atmos tech. It's no more contraband than the CE/CMO/RD having a flash/baton, or the HoP having an e-gun despite not being implanted/not being security.

 

This one is kind of a bit far off base. The heads are allowed to have simple stun items, because they are heads, and they need to stay protected. An axe is not a stun tool, it is a tool meant for breaking down windows. An atmos tech is not a head. The axe is most often used as a weapon, and almost never used for what is meant to be used for. There are almost endless reasons to not carry it around, and pretty much only two reasons to carry it around.

 

Thing is though, carrying it around (and not stabbing anyone to death) is no reason to stun, cuff and brig.

 

In nearly all situations, its a case of "Put the fireaxe back when you can."

 

Thing is, there is nearly no reason to have it out anyway. Obviously if you are caught with it, you aren't using it for its intended purpose, which is breaking down windows during a fire or something. If you do have it out, and not hacking people up, do I really have to wait around until you start hacking people up to decide to act? And even if you don't have plans to, somebody who might could easily disarm you in a variety of ways and run off with it. It is a weapon, it is a security concern. How would you feel if somebody came into your workspace, school, any grocery store, literally anything with a fire axe, and they had no reason to have it? I am not saying to brig, but totally need an escort to make sure it is put back, and totally get issued an injunction. I honestly don't see the argument. What is the absolute need to walk around with the axe? What is so important that it calls for an axe to always be out and ready to use in a moments notice?

 

[Shadeykins]

 

I'm going to state this again about the axe.

 

It's been beaten around by admins thoroughly, and I've asked multiple admins about the matter.

 

Having the axe out is fine, it's not rulebreaking, it's mildly powergamey but it's not a violation of anything.

 

If we're going to argue about an atmostech having weapons, we should take away their control of the atmosphere.

 

This is also 2556, working for a corp with an awful ethics record, in deep space, where getting blobbed/xeno infested/shot is a normal daily occurrence. You can't make the "Fire axe in a grocery store" argument because it's not relevant to a game based over 500 years from now.

 

Also, wielding it and having it on your back are two different things. We're talking about having it on your back, not running around with an axe in your hands. You can't be "disarmed" of an item on your back unless someone manages to actually stun you with something.

 

[Fj45]

For the love of everything, PLEASE just remove 107 already!

[Streaky Haddock]

Why, FJ?

[Spacemanspark]

 

Officers abuse it by getting to decide what is radio abuse.

The law does, yes, say what is abuse, but no officer actually reads it, which irritates the shit out of me.

 

[Streaky Haddock]

 

I'll clarify it to be CRYSTAL CLEAR because I don't want to get in the mentality of 'it's abused so remove it' because misuse of radio is a genuinely useful and if I remove it, Officers will probably use 'hooliganism' or something as a sentence, another which I'll have to remove. FJ, your mentality seems to be: 'EH REMOVE ENOUGH LAWS AND OFFICERS WILL COMPENSATE BY TWISTING DEFINITIONS' which is what I don't want.

 

Besides maybe changing the default sentence to a minute, changing the definition to be clearer is all i'm willing to do.

 

[Fj45]

 

Minute sentence is good, but I have been brigged so many times, and seen so many people brigged because of 107. Really, any legit use of it (Chaplin's reading half of the bible over the radio) pretty much just falls into admin territory.

 

If you are so sure that it shouldn't be removed, then it needs a better name.

 

[Innocent Fire]

 

Why don't you explain exactly what's happening for you to get arrested FJ? I notice that if you don't like the way things go, you instantly start to hate on them without using proper logic to get to the point you're at. Not trying to be rude, but you seem to jump the gun.

 

If this law was removed, there would be a lot more stress on admins, since they would have to step up for all the spam instead of having it being handled in character. Now if someone was spamming "FUCKSECURITYFUCKSECURITYFUCKSECURITY" 32 times non stop, obviously an admin would step in and either ban or mute said person (Or both). The law is there to prevent people from spreading misinformation, it's also there to protect the sanity of the crew, including security themselves.

 

There are many ways to abuse the comms, as it is stated in the actual law, people could be spreading misinformation, they could continue to flood the comms with yelling and pointless babble to the point where security needs to tell them to stop and such like that.

 

The way comms works on many stations is, they're not really meant for public communication. As in, it's not a chat service. It's supposed to be for transferring information. You're not supposed to be having full fledged conversations on the comms. Even the public comms. It's more like "We now have blah blah in the kitchen! Come eat!" kinda thing, rather than, "SO I FUCKING HATE TAJARANS. RIGHT? RIGHT. EVERYONE HATES THEM BLAHBLABH" or "Hey John, how was your day at work?" etc. That's why we have PDAs.

 

I'm not saying that's how comms works on this station, but this is how I was brought up with comms. I've been around space station for a loooong time, and every station is different. So, if someone is arresting you for abusing comms, you have alternate ways out, such as IAA and even talking with the HoS or Warden can get you out of a silly charge.

 

[belarion]

 

99% of the time I see "abuse of radio" come up, is when its tacked onto an existing sentence just so officer secuirtrash can silence the crying brigee.

If you're hunted down and detained specifically because of "misusing comms", you really must have done something because typically nobody cares.

 

[Telvayne]

As warden, the only time I have used'abuse of comma' is when you are very clearly abusing it. By that, I mean I have either received multiple complaints, you are spamming, or you are using comms more than 3-4 times to everyone else's one time. Also I tack it on to sexual harassment if you were yelling about 'rape' on comms.

[veganzombeh]

I think what counts as an "injunction" needs clearing up. I've seen a lot of people confuse "Violation of Injunction" with "Failure to Execute an Order". As far as I'm aware, there is nowhere that states the correct procedure for filing an injunction or what injunctions can be filed about either.

[Hairy Ban Jhankri]

 

I think what counts as an "injunction" needs clearing up. I've seen a lot of people confuse "Violation of Injunction" with "Failure to Execute an Order". As far as I'm aware, there is nowhere that states the correct procedure for filing an injunction or what injunctions can be filed about either.

 

An injunction is anything that isn't defined in space law, but mostly if some of command, the warden, or an officer doesn't like certain behaviour, they can issue an injunction to knock that behavior off. Should the behaviour persist, that is a violation of injunction. A proper injunction should be handled in an administrative manner, via the HOS or warden in the form of paperwork, and be signed by all relevant staff, however a verbal issuing of an injunction works. Think of it like a non posted temporary parking ban, it is a verbal thing. So, for example, littering is not in space law, and it shouldn't be. However, if somebody has just dumped a ton of shit in a hall or somebodies office somewhere, an injunction can be issued, and that is perfectly legal to go about it that way. Failure to execute is more for denying orders, which is what the law states. So, like a chemist doesn't make something, or makes something the CMO orders not to. An engineer disobeys orders to set up solars. A sec officer does not report to a location.

 

[daisuke08]

Just noticed this but if you wiki space law in game, it takes you to http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Space_law which is different from the one you posted, http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Space_Law due to the L's in law. The one in game doesn't have the updated law about insulting an officer.

[Streaky Haddock]

that was changed recently unless something's been reverted.

[Artorp]

 

It's not reverted, but he's probably talking about clicking on the wiki button, then inputting "space law" into the box.

 

Streaky, you really should add a redirect to that page, it has caused enough harm as is.

 

[Streaky Haddock]

Oh wow that's really neat, thank you. However I did look into editing the Space_law page but I don't have the permissions.

[Artorp]

Hmm, guess it's up to Nec, Regen or zomgponies then.

[necaladun]

Yeah I will try to fix it up. A quick definition of the difference between order and injunction is an order is your co telling you to do somehing, an injunction is sec telling you not to do something