FlameNeko Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Good day everybody. I came up with an interesting thought - "Is power of Loyalty Implant absolute?" ============================================================== So here is what I came up with. Think about this. Assume that Loyalty Implants are in use for at least 40 years. I am sure that technology of loyalty implants haven't been improved since it never fail. Let's think in Role-Play way: I am a Security Officer. I've been working with Syndicate for last 5 years. I've heard many-many things about loyalty implants. Let's assume that I've been working on my mind for about three years. I have failed. I've been detained by SEC and than loyalty implant. ============================================================== Here is a point. Will be superior brain of a person who knows everything about it more powerful than implant? Personally I think a Human/Taj/Unathi/etc. brain if prepared can beat implant in "control over body" fight. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Ban Jhankri Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 You bring up a good point in terms of brain structure, how it effects the brain, and all that. That is something I have been thinking about a bit, myself. For your point, if I understood you correctly, think about it this way. Hypnotism and a variety of other means can completely demolish free will in a variety of "subjects". Some methods, the "subject" must be willing, however more nefarious means can bypass free will entirely, to insert one's own will. So, I think in reality, and fiction, even if you knew quite a bit about your own mind, there is more to it that can be overridden. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameNeko Posted February 23, 2015 Author Posted February 23, 2015 So I think Human brain is capable of overcoming effects of Implant. If person have enough will and is in good control over self-consciousness. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 The problem here is in mechanics - if people can choose to say their character is able to resist, then the implants become useless. I guarantee almost every antag will choose to resist. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameNeko Posted February 23, 2015 Author Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) The problem here is in mechanics - if people can choose to say their character is able to resist, then the implants become useless. I guarantee almost every antag will choose to resist. Here comes Game Master involvement. If Game Master know that player who is asking for it can superb Role-Play it, he/she might allow it. Also, the character who is asking for it must describe how he is doing this. Player must have a great reason for it. Or a good background. I even not sure that a lot of people will use it though. Edited February 23, 2015 by Guest Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Ban Jhankri Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) That would have to be a very exceptional brain. If that is the case, then people would just ignore the rev brainwashing, ignore eldritch entities unholy will, resist vampire enthrallment, and so on, and so on. Also, by very exceptional, I mean nigh impossible. A mind is very strong, but also unspeakably weak. I'd think that the only reason that rev heads are able to resist implants is because it is a simple not as thought out game mechanic, to identify a rev head. EDIT: Let me rephrase, a mind is vastly incredible in terms of power, however, a mind can be incredibly weak to influence. This influence can be from a variety of factors such as substance, how religious/spiritual one is, mental illness. The list could go on. In the end, hmm, what is the quote, something like the mind being a fortress unguarded with the gates left open? Edited February 23, 2015 by Guest Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameNeko Posted February 23, 2015 Author Posted February 23, 2015 I am talking only about Mechanical ( Computer ) implant. All the supernatural never been questioned. It's magic. It cannot be questioned. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fj45 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 The loyalty implant discussion is one of balance and fighting shitcurity, not lore. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czardoc Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 My friend had this issue when he was sentenced to kill me by Central Command, yet he didn't want to do it and kept trying to find ways to avoid it or get around it (He could have implanted me, as it would still be in NT's interest to have a traitor suppressed as long as no one dies - according to Necaladun, however this was in a different situation). In the end, it wasn't that he had a superior intelligence that could combat a metal brainwashing implant in his cerebrum, but rather that his own morality and large disagreement with the decision put in front of him overcame. He had to kill a good friend and fairly innocent(despite being a syndicate operative) as well as honest(I pretty much told them everything on the spot) subject, without having to implant me. This, is at least, what he says his character believed IC'ly. With this, his own morality managed to surge past the implant. It wasn't primarily intelligence or race-oriented (Which it shouldn't be at all. A human should have equal chance for his implant to break over morality as a Slime or Vox would), but based on morality and love for a person. I pretty much recited what I was told, I don't know if my friend gave a paragraph to the admin or a powerful but short sentence, but TL;DR morality rules over (of course, it's case-to-case and admin to admin. Captain shouldnt be allowed to just free a traitor because they're both tajaran and they're racist, or he thinks she's cute). Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Your own morality can't make you disobey an implant, period. You can only break space law/deviate from space law if it is in the best interest of NT, your personal interests/morality/conflicts do not apply. If it was ahelped, that's great, but loyalty implants are meant to be de facto, unwavering loyalty regardless of circumstances. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 This is why you don't ask CC for what you should do if you find a syndicate. Most admins will just say to kill them. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameNeko Posted February 24, 2015 Author Posted February 24, 2015 So as I understand, any circumstances you might have or any idea you must have must be ahelped. I think if player have a good idea and Game Masters find it interesting... It would more fun to play for everybody if something like this happen. ( Not going on killing rampage, but something really well-played and organised ) Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veganzombeh Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Your own morality can't make you disobey an implant, period. You can only break space law/deviate from space law if it is in the best interest of NT, your personal interests/morality/conflicts do not apply. If it was ahelped, that's great, but loyalty implants are meant to be de facto, unwavering loyalty regardless of circumstances. I'm inclined to agree with this. Loyalty implants shouldn't be the subject of debate. A loyalty implant should categorically make the implantee loyal to Nanotrasen. If you try to get around it based on morals, that's not RP. That's substituting RP for your own personal morals. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3596-loyalty-implant-discussion/#findComment-23322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts