Da Dman234 Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Alright, I'm a little lost as to how to even begin to approach this topic, but I feel like it is a reasonable request regardless of the amount of hate it will bring from new players. I'll try to keep this short and sweet. Currently, in my eyes, more than ever before, syndicate bombs obtained from the PDA serve as more a nuisance than they actually add game-play wise. My suggestion is to, similar to quite a few other syndicate items, restrict the bombs to Nuke Ops only, simply because of their power to fuck over quite a few people if used correctly. I believe restriction should occur for the following reasons... Excessive Antagging is still a rule if I'm not mistaken, most new players do not know better and having easy, powerful, bombs at their disposal simply does not mix If an Antag does have a legitimate reason for a bomb, there is science mixing. This helps to ensure only experienced players who are much less likely to abuse bombs are the ones with access to them There are very few legitimate reasons for using bombs as normal antags, the only objective that really justifies it is to escape on the shuttle alone (correct me if I'm wrong) Anyways, to have a syndicate item that destructive and only acceptable in so few situations just isn't sound in my opinion, which is obviously why I'm calling for its restriction as I've seen its abuse far to much in this past week. Many thanks for reading and sorry for the cheesy style of writing, heh. Feel free to add more below Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Bombs here, bombs there, bombs everywhere. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I very much see your point here - getting killed (and especially gibbed) as an innocent bystander is pretty harsh. I'd honestly say that the potential for destruction - given the TC cost - is actually fairly low compared to mass use of C4, etc. Bombing is a quite valid tactic for assassination tactics, assuming at least there is a vague attempt to hit the target. The syndicate bombs I've seen very rarely used actually, with the sheer size of the big ones, it's not easy. The minibombs might be a tad powerful as a recent test in the brig showed me. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Still weaker than nitro grenades and toxins bombs. They have a minimum timer and make noise, meaning there's a decent amount of counterplay to them; the ticking they make is very distinctive, particularly during the last 10 second countdown; compare this to a nitro grenade or toxins bomb that can activated without warning and has a much bigger blast radius. These have a minimum explosive time of 60 seconds and generate a 2-5-11 explosion once they do go off; it can only out and out gib those in a small 3x3 box around the the device; those outside this box will take heavy damage but will not be gibbed. Toxins/nitro grenade? Again, whenever the maker wants them to go off+the fact you can mass produce them. Their explosion size is 3-7-14; it will out and out gib those in a 5x5 box around the center of the explosion. While we're at it: Minibomb size explosion: 1-2-4 Potassium+water grenade: 0-2-5 Very similar values. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacemanspark Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Ya but you gotta actually make that shit, which risks you getting caught, especially if you're not the chemist. You can order minibombs at the press of a button. Multiple bombs. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Dman234 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Posted March 14, 2015 Ya but you gotta actually make that shit, which risks you getting caught, especially if you're not the chemist.You can order minibombs at the press of a button. Multiple bombs. Syndicate minibombs create a very small, fixable hull breach. On the other hand a well placed bomb can make all of escape vent with no hope of fixing it anytime soon. Practical and acceptable in very few situations The risk of getting caught is a risk you would have to take. Would be the same as someone disarming the syndicate bomb and finding your fingerprints. There are always Pros and Cons Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanthelis Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I dealt more damage to the station last week using solely c4 than I possibly could have with a full sized bomb. Cut away a grille with wire cutters and planted one c4. On the station oxygen supply tank. No more oxygen. Placed c4 on metal rods and threw it. Killed the ai in five throws, or roughly sixty seconds - but used half the TC a full bomb would've. I planted c4 in three places around the hull, to cause breaches that, without the oxygen supply, could never be fixed. I (almost) killed the Captain by hurling a live c4 brick at him, but he shot me with an ion carbine and my legs flew off. Luckily, it was my objective to die gloriously, so all my rampant terrorism was for was to ensure a shuttle call for the Chaplain, who needed to escape with the documents I'd given him (my obtain document objective was impossible, DZD is working on fixing that) I still had 3tc left when I died. C4 is much more powerful than a syndicate bomb if used appropriately. Syndicate bomb allows a minimum of a whole minute for people to get away from you. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Dman234 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Posted March 14, 2015 C4 is much more powerful than a syndicate bomb if used appropriately. Keyword used appropriately, most new players aren't good enough to use this effectively. The reason I want syndicate bombs restricted is because people think "Well I'm antag, how can I be as antagonistic as possible, Oh! lets buy the big ass bombs and put them around the station" I've seen this happen quite frequently over the week, and just don't think players need easy access to such destructive bombs. It is true they are defusable, but I very rarely see that done out of all the bombing cases I see. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanthelis Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Around the station? All one of them. They cost 11 tc. Syndies get 20tc to work with. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Dman234 Posted March 14, 2015 Author Posted March 14, 2015 My apologies, on solely Traitor I see them frequently go off. I assume they are from one person but since they are not I think this further reinforces my point. If multiple people are buying syndicate bombs and you see three or four go off in one round... Well that's pretty bad then Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanthelis Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 I don't recall any rounds I have been in where more than one of the 11tc bombs have gone off. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, only that it hasn't happened in a round I have been in, so perhaps you keep a schedule that is the inverse of mine, or perhaps I didn't notice them all. I honestly think they're a giant waste of tc, and this who abuse them are quickly antag banned. I've used them a couple times to force shuttle calls or distract security. Really about it. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 I don't see them used that often--likewise people abusing them is largely a player/administrative issue. This isn't like removing flash protection from EVA suits or requiring RIG+helmet to be used together to curb powergaming; this is suggestion that will negatively impact those who are using the bombs legitimately (where as the former changes don't impact those who are using the equipment legitimately)--namely in they won't have access to explosives at all--it's just pushing explosive access purely to Botany, Science, and Chemistry (and therefore even more power concentrated in those departments). Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 I walked past one just as it went off the other day. It was hilarious. I thought I'd make it a whole round without taking damage, very wrong of me. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
johannhawk Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 just going to add that explosions will be useful for completing a ''make an example'' objective Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadPojo Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 But I like playing bomber man, it's fun don't take my booms away. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/3774-removalrestriction-of-syndicate-bombs/#findComment-24714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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