Nerf Diona into the ground

[Psyentific]

 

 

Because what the fuck is this. Mining comfortably without a hardsuit. Who thought this was a good idea?!

 

>Immune to pressure damage

>Don't need to breathe

>Thus, spaceproof

>Fireproof

>Heal while in light

>Extra melee damage

>Own language

 

 

In a large fire that's insanely hot, they'll actually heal faster than the fire can kill them. They don't entirely outheal the toxin damage from the plasma, so they pass out, but they still live. It's like N20 to them, except N20 doesn't affect them. As a Diona, you can cut yourself all you want and you'll pretty much never die unless you start bleeding internally. You can chop your own foot off and be fine.

 

All this, available from first-login. Give me exactly one reason to continue being Glorious Human Master Race - One reason to not get my powergame on and start being an always-healing space-immune non-flammable non-breathing Plant God. And no, Glorious Human Master Race doesn't count as a reason.

 

What, exactly, is the Dionae's weakness? What multiple, glaring, crippling flaws am I gaining in exchange for all this glorious overpoweredness? I slowly lose health in dark places? PDA flashlight. Hard hat. Fire helmet. Flashlight in pocket. In SS13, you will never be in the dark unless you want to be in the dark.

 

E:

Bash your own head in with a pickaxe, three times. 45 brute damage to the head.

One Hundred Percent Healthy

 

Dionae are unkillable plantgods, please fix this.

 

[Roland410]

I wouldn't complain really, this is pretty great, but yeah, they need some balancing, maybe give them nobreathing power as a start because they are trees, and making them pressure resistant is quite fine according to the lore since they travel in space. But making them unkillable by fire is stupid as hell, because that should be their only poison. Extra melee damage? Why? They are trees, stupid. Everything else is fine in my opinion, they only need a bit of balancing and ready to be used for people who complain.

[Earthdivine]

wait, when did they become immune to fire? We make it so they took extra fire damage a good while ago

[Rotciv]

Extra melee damage makes sense. They are trees. Not squishy fleshmen. They have some density. But yeah. Fire should burn crap out of them. Overall, it seems to make sense how they are so strong. Slow them down too. Maybe make it so there's some sort of an input lag to their speech and movement. Like they are all very slow moving Groot tree dudes, but hit hard as hell if they manage to connect. Like a mech but slower.

[Psyentific]

 

Extra melee damage makes sense. They are trees. Not squishy fleshmen. They have some density. But yeah. Fire should burn crap out of them. Overall, it seems to make sense how they are so strong. Slow them down too. Maybe make it so there's some sort of an input lag to their speech and movement. Like they are all very slow moving Groot tree dudes, but hit hard as hell if they manage to connect. Like a mech but slower.

 

You can't seriously be trying to make the case that this is balanced. I can take one look at this and say, with complete confidence, that it is not.

 

I wouldn't complain really, this is pretty great, but yeah, they need some balancing, maybe give them nobreathing power as a start because they are trees, and making them pressure resistant is quite fine according to the lore since they travel in space. But making them unkillable by fire is stupid as hell, because that should be their only poison. Extra melee damage? Why? They are trees, stupid. Everything else is fine in my opinion, they only need a bit of balancing and ready to be used for people who complain.

 

Double burn damage from all sources and a high chance (4x damage recieved) to be lit on fire by any burn damage.

OR

Triple burn damage from all sources.

 

You are a plant. You are made of wood. Plants burn.

 

I'm completely ignorant as to the Dionae's lore, but I feel that lore-accuracy should be completely secondary to game balance. If Dionae photosynthesize in a traditional manner, they will require ambient oxygen, not internals, because O2 is absorbed through the skin-analogue. If Dionae absorb oxygen in a humanlike manner, that is, through lung-analogues and transport it with a blood-analogue, they will require internals. Dionae are plants. Saying they don't need Oxygen makes absolutely no scientific sense within the confines of currently-understood biology. Earthlike photosynthesis requires O2 and produces CO2. Remove their non-breathing entirely.

 

Pressure immunity, eh, no. Nerf hard. That allows a diona to spacewalk with internals. That's on par with Cold Resistance in Genetics as a superpower, and should not be available out the gate.

 

Bonus melee damage, remove entirely. That's the Tajaran's schtick, quit stealing it.

 

 

Alien races, especially out-the-gate alien races, should have ~2 benefits of low to moderate power, balanced by ~2 drawbacks of low to moderate power. The Tajarans have bonus unarmed damage because of claws, however they cannot wear gloves. This is good and balanced, and is the standard alien races should be held to - Minor mechanical benefits for minor mechanical drawbacks, and an expectation to incorporate it into RP.

 

There should be nothing that is objectively better, and right now Dionae are exactly that and are freely available. Pick two Good things and two Bad things. You can into space with internals and heal slowly in light, BUT you burn, oh by all the multitudinous Gods of the polyverse do you burn.

 

Edited January 20, 2014 by Guest

[BadKiller184]

 

Aaaand that's a bug,you're not 100% healty,the H-meter is just bugged and it always show 100% health,always,even if you're critical.

Also,i'm one of the few that really uses a diona as a PC(and as a PC i mean that i try to roleplay with it,not ''i try to become a superplantgodthatwillevenkillaninja :twisted: ''),is strong,can regen himself,can fly like a bird,move like a butterfly,sting like a bee etcetera etcetera etcetera,but noone besides me and i don't know who uses it even if it's so godly.

P.S.

They're like Ents(Treebeard in space),so they really should have those ''skills''

P.P.S.

They're not immune to fire,lasers&Fire kills you pretty quickly,and you can't regenerate the burned zones.

 

[Psyentific]

 

Aaaand that's a bug,you're not 100% healthy,the H-meter is just bugged and it always show 100% health,always,even if you're critical.

Is that a bug with Dionae in particular? Because I haven't encountered it as Human at all.

 

Also,i'm one of the few that really uses a diona as a PC(and as a PC i mean that i try to roleplay with it,not ''i try to become a superplantgodthatwillevenkillaninja :twisted: ''),is strong,can regen himself,can fly like a bird,move like a butterfly,sting like a bee etcetera etcetera etcetera,but noone besides me and i don't know who uses it even if it's so godly.

Well that's good for you that you're sticking to a character, but you're approaching a code problem like it's a player problem. From a purely powergaming standpoint, I have no reason not to be Diona, because Glorious Plantgod Ubermenschen.

 

 

P.S.

They're like Ents(Treebeard in space),so they really should have those ''skills''

Dionae are directly ported from Baycode - Nice fluff, but game balance is completely ignored. What are the drawbacks? You light on fire? That's not nearly numerous or severe enough to counter the multiple powerful benefits you get for taking Diona, each of which, taken individually are on-par with Genetics or Virology superpowers. I am ignoring fluff for purposes of game balance. So should you.

 

P.P.S.

They're not immune to fire,lasers&Fire kills you pretty quickly,and you can't regenerate the burned zones.

My sources and secondhand-info may be wrong, then. This will need further testing on my end.

 

Edited January 20, 2014 by Guest

[Roland410]

Also Psy, the ideas you wrote would make it the most unused race since it only leaves the regen in light as their only good thing to have, you burn like shit and die, not cool.

[Psyentific]

 

Also Psy, the ideas you wrote would make it the most unused race since it only leaves the regen in light as their only good thing to have, you burn like shit and die, not cool.

Then we keep two. I propose:

 

+Photosynthetic metabolism; Light-based health regeneration. As long as you are in a lit area with oxygen, you will slowly regenerate health. Without both, you will slowly lose health.

+Pressure immunity; You can spacewalk with internals.

 

=Treespeak; Dionae language, cannot be spoken, understood, or learned by non-dionae.

=Plant affinity; You can instantly tell the condition and attributes of any plant at a glance. Shift-clicking a plant, diona, or hydroponics tray will act as if you had used a Plant or Medical analyzer on it, in addition to fluff text in the case of Hydroponics plants. ex. "My name's Danny!" "I'm hungry..." "Ooo! What's that?"

 

-Charcoal: Fire doesn't kill you, nor does it brutally murder you. Fire brutally murderkills you.

-Haste Makes Waste: Slower than a human, full speed is equivalent to no-shoes human.

 

What this gives you is two moderately-powerful benefits for two moderate drawbacks, plus flavor.

 

[Earthdivine]

Diona's have a nerfed movespeed, they move as if they have a hardsuit on if i remember, making it very hard to chase anyone down. Inaddition, they do take increased fire damage, though i do not know how much. Thirdly, plant be gone is near instant death

[Psyentific]

 

Diona's have a nerfed movespeed, they move as if they have a hardsuit on if i remember, making it very hard to chase anyone down. Inaddition, they do take increased fire damage, though i do not know how much. Thirdly, plant be gone is near instant death

That's nice to know, but I still feel that doesn't balance out Spaceproof, No breathing, and extra melee damage.

 

 

You can't look at this and tell me this is a picture of something balanced unless that is your sole and primary advantage. It should be associated with powerful, non-niche disadvantages that hinder you very often. In a game where space is near-instantly lethal to everyone who isn't in a spacesuit, the ability to comfortably and indefinitely stand in space with no equipment is absurdly powerful.

 

[NTXUb]

 

Diona's have a nerfed movespeed, they move as if they have a hardsuit on if i remember, making it very hard to chase anyone down. Inaddition, they do take increased fire damage, though i do not know how much. Thirdly, plant be gone is near instant death

That's nice to know, but I still feel that doesn't balance out Spaceproof, No breathing, and extra melee damage.

 

'incredibly powerful' absolutely balances out with 'incredibly slow', but i agree that you should get rid of 'no breathing' at least

 

[BadKiller184]

 

Is that a bug with Dionae in particular? Because I haven't encountered it as Human at all.

Yes,it's a diona problem.

 

Well that's good for you that you're sticking to a character, but you're approaching a code problem like it's a player problem. From a purely powergaming standpoint, I have no reason not to be Diona, because Glorious Plantgod Ubermenschen.

Then why few people use the diona,if it's so overpowered?

 

That's nice to know, but I still feel that doesn't balance out Spaceproof, No breathing, and extra melee damage.

No one ever use his fists against someone else when he can use a toolbox,a crowbar,a wielder,a stunbaton,a tazer or a laser gun,so they're not so strong.

Combine it with their slowness and you'll kill a diona without problems of any kind.

 

[Regen]

 

50 toxin damage from one spray of plant-b-gone

thats two sprays away from crit, and I dont think they regenerate that, I might be wrong.

Anyways they should first off only regenerate brute, and perhaps easier get lit up in flames

 

[Psyentific]

 

50 toxin damage from one spray of plant-b-gone, thats two sprays away from crit

That's niche enough to be irrelevant for purposes of balance. Most Chemist and CMOs don't know how to make Plant-B-Gone, most botanists don't carry it around on the off-chance they have to deal with a Diona.

 

Well that's good for you that you're sticking to a character, but you're approaching a code problem like it's a player problem. From a purely powergaming standpoint, I have no reason not to be Diona, because Glorious Plantgod Ubermenschen.

Then why few people use the diona,if it's so overpowered?

There's a lot of overpowered shit that nobody uses, and, for the most part, those who do use them keep their secrets. It's not that powerful things shouldn't exist, rather, that high-powered things shouldn't be available out the gate.

 

That's nice to know, but I still feel that doesn't balance out Spaceproof, No breathing, and extra melee damage.

No one ever use his fists against someone else when he can use a toolbox,a crowbar,a wielder,a stunbaton,a tazer or a laser gun,so they're not so strong.

Combine it with their slowness and you'll kill a diona without problems of any kind.

If my fists deal ten brute damage per hit, that's on-par with a toolbox, fire extinguisher, or harm baton. 13 brute per hit is on par with a hatchet, and 15/hit is Circular Saw, thrown floortile, and thrown glass shard. I don't have hard numbers on Diona punching, but if it's ten or more it's a viable melee weapon that cannot be disarmed; I no longer need to carry a follow-up to pair with a stunprod or baton throw, and I'm still an effective combatant if you disarm me.

 

 

Diona's have a nerfed movespeed, they move as if they have a hardsuit on if i remember, making it very hard to chase anyone down. Inaddition, they do take increased fire damage, though i do not know how much. Thirdly, plant be gone is near instant death

That's nice to know, but I still feel that doesn't balance out Spaceproof, No breathing, and extra melee damage.

 

'incredibly powerful' absolutely balances out with 'incredibly slow', but i agree that you should get rid of 'no breathing' at least

Not necessarily. If I was a Dionae, my principle murder tactic would be E-bowing from space, and doing the same to anyone who comes after me. I'm sure you've seen your fair share of space-based murderbones, same as that but without "Get stripped, you die"

 

The thing is, Space-immunity gives you such an incredible amount of strategic mobility - on par with the level of survivability that Kidan natural armor shrugging off heavy pulse rifles gives you. With space-immunity and a complete disregard for the crew (i.e. antag), depressurizing the entire station is now directly to your benefit and cannot possibly backfire as anything other than air-rushes. Furthermore, anywhere that touches space is somewhere you can now go (Or at least enter) with complete imperviousness. Armory, engine room, atmos, toxins off the top of my head. Space is no longer a very deadly environmental hazard, rather, it is now your best friend. Hardsuit movement speed is a small price to pay for that, and I know many engineers, atmo techs, and chief engineers who wear their hardsuit at all times because it grants them exactly that, except they're limited by internals and don't heal as long as they can get a flashlight.

 

Currently, Permabrig and Labor camp sentences cannot be enforced on Diona, because they'll just break a window and walk off - This eliminates the biggest barrier to the "Fuckit, murderbone" thought process; 'What happens when I get caught'

 

[NTXUb]

 

The thing is, Space-immunity gives you such an incredible amount of strategic mobility - on par with the level of survivability that Kidan natural armor shrugging off heavy pulse rifles gives you. With space-immunity and a complete disregard for the crew (i.e. antag), depressurizing the entire station is now directly to your benefit and cannot possibly backfire as anything other than air-rushes. Furthermore, anywhere that touches space is somewhere you can now go (Or at least enter) with complete imperviousness. Armory, engine room, atmos, toxins off the top of my head. Space is no longer a very deadly environmental hazard, rather, it is now your best friend. Hardsuit movement speed is a small price to pay for that, and I know many engineers, atmo techs, and chief engineers who wear their hardsuit at all times because it grants them exactly that, except they're limited by internals and don't heal as long as they can get a flashlight.

 

Currently, Permabrig and Labor camp sentences cannot be enforced on Diona, because they'll just break a window and walk off - This eliminates the biggest barrier to the "Fuckit, murderbone" thought process; 'What happens when I get caught'

 

i think you're severely overestimating how hard it is for a traitor to get a hardsuit anyway

 

[Psyentific]

 

I think you're severely overestimating how hard it is for a traitor to get a hardsuit anyway

Trivially easy, like every steal/kill objective. It's not that it's hard to get a spacesuit, rather, that they always have it. Breaking a window and taking a spacewalk is always an option, and that you can pair it up with something that isn't a hardsuit. Ablative and Riot shield, anyone? Again, you can't effectively sentence a Diona to permabrig or the labor camp, because they can just break a window and walk away.

 

[Ours]

Space trees friend. Also I have played a traitor diona in the past and those plant-b-gone's tend to be a MASSIVE weakpoint. I say that much balances it out perfectly, And this is when they were more powerful than they are now.

[tigercat2000]

 

Oh, lets not forget, they don't need a head.

 

 

[NTXUb]

 

Oh, lets not forget, they don't need a head.

 

 

this needed to be posted twice

 

[Psyentific]

 

Oh, lets not forget, they don't need a head.

 

 

 

"Facehuggers? HAH HAH! I HAVE NO FACE!"

 

No, seriously, nerf diona. Because who the heck thought that was balanced?

 

[Rotciv]

Everyone can survive without a head right now.

[Sheakhan]

Tell that to Cortical Borers.

[Psyentific]

 

Everyone can survive without a head right now.

While hilarious and silly, that is also very stupid.

 

[Earthdivine]

Ponies is already fixing it, he just has more important bugs to deal with first.