Secondary Language: Tajaran, Vox, etc..

[NikolaiLev]

 

It would be nice to be able to choose tajaran, vox, and so on as a secondary language. It's rare for a human to learn tajaran successfully due to the lack of a tail and such, so maybe this should be a cheap (5kp or so) karma unlock.

 

While some might resist this change due to the aforementioned "hard for humans to learn," it makes a lot of sense for experienced or ambitious crew to learn it given tajarans in the workplace. A sort of cultural awareness and exchange thing.

 

Maybe it wouldn't be a perfect understanding, with occasional words being asterisked unless the karma unlock variant was purchased.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

We can't let players karna their way into it,

but, I think ONE secondary language would be fine, able to understand and speak it.

That way David Buck can have his dream of speaking Silk'Tajir.

 

[TheDemonic]

maybe since humans have trouble speaking it perhaps you could have some letters mixed up like albed from ffx if anyones played that, making it hard to understand but you can understand it and no karma should not be a magic wand that just makes things happen.

[davidchan]

If Tajaran requires a tail and ears to speak, how can they understand each other the radio?

[johannhawk]

i will accept this only if you have to wear cat ears or something similar to speak it.

[Fj45]

 

Baylore doesn't matter here, its snowflake and awful. I mean if you want to go that way, its the godamn future! Think about how much the education system has advanced!

 

Second languages are dead. Allowing people to speak more second languages should help that.

 

 

Best way to do it I think:

 

Every race with a racial language effectively gets three languages, common, their racial language and a second language of their choice.

 

Humans just common and their second language.

 

 

PLEASE, someone, anyone, code this! The language system is very interesting but having it the way bay locked it down completely wastes it.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Still don't think this is a very good idea---and let's be honest 99% of the time, players are just going to pick the Tajaran language just so they can understand what they say--back when we were more RP oriented (at launch) and this *was* and option, that's still exactly what happened. I don't really see any reason it wouldn't happen all over again.

 

I wouldn't mind the idea of humans have the ability to select two languages, but speciel languages should really stay around speciel lines.

 

[Fj45]

Why is that an issue? If silk-tar is the only second language with any use, then why is it a problem for people to speak that?

[TheDemonic]

 

Why is that an issue? If silk-tar is the only second language with any use, then why is it a problem for people to speak that?

if everyone knew how to speak it, then why would anyone use it? its like having 2 commons, why would anyone use common 2 when common 1 is there?

 

[davidchan]

 

I don't see any reason to make racial languages open to other races without some Karma cost. I'd rather see more custom languages that can be learned, similar to how Tradeband and Gutterspeak work. I would love to see things like Sign Language, which can't be broadcast over the radio, but could be used to communicate with people who are Deaf or in vacuum where sound doesn't travel. (This could also be accompanied with things like Hearing Aids to assist the hearing impaired, deafness as a starting condition that would require surgery to fix much like glasses and eyesight)

 

Humans get 3 languages too, by the way. Their racial language, Sol Common (:1) , is just never used because hardly anyone knows it is there. Everyone able to speak Vox of Tajaran just doesn't really make sense to me. Antag specific languages would be interesting, Cultists, Shadowthralls and Traitors/Nuke Ops could always use entertaining ways to talk to each other.

 

[MrFinnT]

 

sure lets make this like EA: Step one lock everything exept the basic game.

Next step, put a buy to play option in, so you have to unlock every littel piece.

 

Karma is very difficult to earn, some people have strategies how to get karma from other players - doing funn stuff, kill the round ashole, ext. i dont know if i knew this i would not tell and i would have karma

 

anyway locking sutff with karma basicly makes it exclusiv for a small elit playercore

 

[MarvinMartian34]

Am I crazy, or didn't we just change it like a month ago from where secondary languages included the racial languages? I honestly am against secondary race languages, because, from a realistic and "muh immershuns" standpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense that a human can not only perfectly immitate a cat to other humans, but that also the cat people understand exactly what they are saying.

[Spacemanspark]

 

Realism isn't always fun.

I think this would be alright and fun, it's not like we're allowing people to know every language at once.

 

[Allfd]

 

Almost all of the time I see racial languages being used it’s in a Role Playing context. My concern with opening the languages up is that everyone will pick Tajaran and Vox and using it to disrupt existing conversations. While disrupting conversations can be an IC thing, my guess is it won’t be done for the betterment of the RP atmosphere. I would anticipate most of its use being along the lines of

 

;:j CATBEAST CATBEAST MEOW!

 

Edited for spelling

 

[Fj45]

 

Why is that an issue? If silk-tar is the only second language with any use, then why is it a problem for people to speak that?

if everyone knew how to speak it, then why would anyone use it? its like having 2 commons, why would anyone use common 2 when common 1 is there?

 

Well if that happens then maybe languages are completely broken. Whats better, keeping it the way it is or trying to change it so there is a chance they might get some use?

 

[Fj45]

 

Humans get 3 languages too, by the way. Their racial language, Sol Common (:1) , is just never used because hardly anyone knows it is there. Everyone able to speak Vox of Tajaran just doesn't really make sense to me. Antag specific languages would be interesting, Cultists, Shadowthralls and Traitors/Nuke Ops could always use entertaining ways to talk to each other.

 

I don't think Sol common was added with the language update. Not sure why.

 

None of the game makes sense if you dig just a little.

 

Antag languages are just silly.

 

[Fj45]

 

Am I crazy, or didn't we just change it like a month ago from where secondary languages included the racial languages? I honestly am against secondary race languages, because, from a realistic and "muh immershuns" standpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense that a human can not only perfectly immitate a cat to other humans, but that also the cat people understand exactly what they are saying.

 

 

Uhh...its exactly like any language IRL. Hell, it would be even easier to learn with all the fancy bits of technology and improvements to the education system.

 

I could go on but "realsim" arguments just go nowhere.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Almost all of the time I see racial languages being used it’s in a Role Playing context. My concern with opening the languages up is that everyone will pick Tajaran and Vox and using it to disrupt existing conversations. While disrupting conversations can be an IC thing, my guess is it won’t be done for the betterment of the RP atmosphere. I would anticipate most of its use being along the lines of

 

;:j CATBEAST CATBEAST MEOW!

 

Edited for spelling

 

This summarizes my thoughts on the matter better than I could.

 

It's also not like there aren't other ways to interpret what they're saying if you REALLY want to (borgs, pAIs, and tape recorders, for instance).

 

Leave the camaraderie between like species be.

 

[Fj45]

 

If people are going to mess with others like that, then they would mess with them no matter if they understand what is being said or not.

 

If anything, having an..."ecosystem" of second languages that isn't just two metabudies would do wonders for RP.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

Almost all of the time I see racial languages being used it’s in a Role Playing context. My concern with opening the languages up is that everyone will pick Tajaran and Vox and using it to disrupt existing conversations. While disrupting conversations can be an IC thing, my guess is it won’t be done for the betterment of the RP atmosphere. I would anticipate most of its use being along the lines of

 

;:j CATBEAST CATBEAST MEOW!

 

Edited for spelling

There are Tajaran that already do this, and they're typically ignored.

 

[TheDemonic]

 

Well if that happens then maybe languages are completely broken. Whats better, keeping it the way it is or trying to change it so there is a chance they might get some use?

 

I would say keeping it the way it is because I honestly have no problem with the way it is right now, like at all. I honestly can't see a problem with races talking their language and other races can't speak it because the way they talk is so different to how the other races speak.

 

[Plotron]

 

^

Agreed.

 

[Allfd]

 

You are both correct, however I do not believe it is a simple dichotomy between being able to mess with everything and being excluded from all interaction. Obviously the ability to mess with others is contingent on a number of factors one of which is the languages we are presenting to players as options on character creation. This is proposing opening up a whole new avenue of messing with others. It comes with opportunities also, however my feeling is that those will not be capitalized on.

 

There are Tajaran that already do this, and they're typically ignored.

 

While the gray tide knows no bounds I have yet to see it happen to a significant extent the Karma locked species. The Tajaran player base also appears to represent a significantly smaller portion of the server population, this change would drastically increase the amount of ignoring required.

 

If people are going to mess with others like that, then they would mess with them no matter if they understand what is being said or not.

 

If anything, having an..."ecosystem" of second languages that isn't just two metabudies would do wonders for RP.

 

I have no comments for or against additional languages, I think that species-specific languages should remain that.

 

tl;dr for this part, my opinion about how metabuddies works is that it’s a consequence of players forming groups with those who share gamestyle and have nothing to do with species or gameplay mechanics.

 

 

 

Metabudies (or at least what I am assuming you mean by the term) seem to be more of a consequence of the diversity of roleplay preferences on the server as opposed to any specific mechanic. Some players engage in long conversations about nothing, others build crossbows with their botany friends and go into maintenance hunting antags.

 

This results in the self-selection of characters into cliques by their players. I think this appears to breakdown along species lines as with a finite number of character creation choices like-minded players select into the same types of species, this is impart formed from the observation that before the species nurfing it was a reliable indicator of playstyle. Also I think some part of this is that species would be the most visible feature that could be tied to group membership from outside observation. It is easy to assume that the Tajaran are metabuddies if they cooperate in anyway even if they are both first time players. Human characters have the cover of still being the most abundant species selection and hence being in the majority don’t have species used as a useful feature to identify group membership.

 

[tigercat2000]

 

Relevant;

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/1083

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4649

 

[KasparoVv]

 

Reading in the code and in the wiki, the only reason why Vox can speak vox-pidgin is because of their absolutely unique facial structure-- featuring their second tongue etc etc.

 

It even goes so far as to specify that humans wouldn't be able to speak it without 'massively disfiguring facial surgery'.

 

Same thing can be said with Siik'tajr and Sinta'unathi, featuring unique sounds that both species can make with their unique facial/vocal structures. Unathi have a foot long forked tongue, as said in the wiki as well.

 

I mention only those three species because they're the only species I've played. IDK about Skrell because I haven't so much as glanced at their lore or played them once

 

How can humans speak this? And yes, I have read the threads all about this on the Bay forums already regarding siik'tajr

 

No thanks. I don't feel it makes sense at all

 

Could add a text filter to non-human species so their speech is messed up if people aren't doing it correctly enough much like the drunk or lisp thing

 

Copypasta from relevant thread