street/syndie grade traitor gear.

[Zargul]

 

Well, I think most points have been said to be fair.

 

Distributing, even weaker Syndicate gear among the crew, can cause a lot of havoc and to an extent even grief.

As Coldflame also said, Traitors who would use such gear are on the safe side, especially if more than 30-50% of the crew would be actively using illegal(!) technology.

 

On the other side, I do not understand why one would actually add even more weapons and gear that can actively be used to cause massive grief.

In the end you wouldn't be even allowed to use said items according to the rules since you'd put yourself into the role of an antagonist, at least in most cases.

 

[johannhawk]

 

Well, I think most points have been said to be fair.

 

Distributing, even weaker Syndicate gear among the crew, can cause a lot of havoc and to an extent even grief.

As Coldflame also said, Traitors who would use such gear are on the safe side, especially if more than 30-50% of the crew would be actively using illegal(!) technology.

 

On the other side, I do not understand why one would actually add even more weapons and gear that can actively be used to cause massive grief.

In the end you wouldn't be even allowed to use said items according to the rules since you'd put yourself into the role of an antagonist, at least in most cases.

i did say that its going to be a 20%-ish chance to have any RANDOM weaker/harmless syndie gear, such as the syndie ballon, chamelon jumpsuit or a dinky one-use emag, meanwhile theres a 80%-ish chance of just having stuff most people would want, such as toolbelts, multitools, etc.

 

in short, i wont be supporting having directly harmful things in there, such as chainsaws, and having it random would discourage actual antags from relying on them.

 

[Zargul]

 

To be fair, I do not see your point.

You said non-antags shall be able to obtain inferior emags, etc but you do not state "how" they shall be able to do it.

 

I'd like to see a more fleshed out idea since I think you and I have different ways of interpreting your first post.

 

[johannhawk]

 

To be fair, I do not see your point.

You said non-antags shall be able to obtain inferior emags, etc but you do not state "how" they shall be able to do it.

 

I'd like to see a more fleshed out idea since I think you and I have different ways of interpreting your first post.

im not rolling with the first post anymore, just what i have said from today onwards.

 

and to make you a little less worried, the inferior emags are not syndie made and therefore cant emag critical things like the cargo console or comms console.

but actual syndie made inferior emags would do the job.

 

keep expressing your worries and i will flesh it out accordingly.

 

[Zargul]

 

Important concerns are:

 

- What Traitor Gear shall have an inferior version?

- How exactly shall it be used?

- How is it obtainable?

- Why would you need such a Gear?

- Is there an alternative to such Gear?

 

[johannhawk]

 

- What Traitor Gear shall have an inferior version?

Anything that would cause or contribute to mass chaos otherwise, such as emags, adrenaline implants and also empty guns that will be included in the loot table, since if somebody gets a emag and sneaks into science, they get to pick any otherwise lockboxed gun that is way more superior to the empty guns in the gear stash, you would have to break into somewhere for bullets anyways if you want to use the empty gun.

- How exactly shall it be used?

since B&E doesnt fall under the self antagging rule, and people do it all the time anyways, you dont really have to worry about how it will be used, since the gear will be weak on its own against anyone that can tag-team you or has anything that stuns. you probably wont get more than two pieces of gear in one shift on your own either.

- How is it obtainable?

how i want it to be obtainable, is that the reliablesourcesTM paper gets printed, and the people on that list will each get a hint on what room it might be in a smuggler satchel under the floor tiles, and then theres the possibility that the smuggler satchel has nothing but a another hint for your treasure hunt, i would limit the stashes with loot in them to 6 per round.

Perhaps give the reliablesourcesTM paper hints too, it has to be of SOME use to sec other than keeping a eye on/questioning people that are looking for the gear.

Additionally, maybe add a paper with hints among the random maintenance loot drops.

- Why would you need such a Gear?

assistants/other misc jobs, usually dont have that much to do other than trying to find a gimmick, but with this, they can try to go on a blind treasure hunt.

i have also seen sec staff try to actively find reasons to arrest each other since its a extended round, it would be nice if sec could make use of the reliable sources TM paper and keep the loot away from the crew instead of being unproductive.

 

as for practical reasons, this lets any lucky bastard to find the stash to turn the tables on whatever threat there is on the station...or just abuse it, but you would need a good reason to abuse it.

 

its like asking why there is a retro laser perfectly capable of killing anyone on the white ship that anyone COULD reach for, speaking of retro lasers, i would like to see them included in the stashes.

- Is there an alternative to such Gear?

we could possibly have the same gear in syndie uplinks for a cheaper price depending on the thing, possibly slightly better but having three variants on the same thing /first-hand syndie gear/second hand syndie gear/straight out second hand gear/ would be too many details to fill in.

 

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7312&p=59372#p59372 i would also like to link this thread.

 

[Zargul]

 

It sounds in theory quite good.

 

The only thing that is bugging me is, that it might be hidden under floortiles and on the station.

It is a NT-Station and I doubt anyone will really hide 6 satchels on it which can have randomized loot.

This only is a reason more to damage station property, and give security a legit reason to grief other people by saying "We are securing illegal equipment on the station".

 

What I can imagine that there are some small bases out in space or on asteroids, etc.

This would give people also the reason to explore more.

 

In a nutshell your Idea is good for normal traitors, it would be indeed an interesting addition while giving them limited use, but it still should not be randomly available on the station.

 

[Keroman]

There are several items that can be found on the mining asteroid that are generally considered traitor-only including a smuggling satchel, an e-cutlass (a variant of the e-sword but with the same stats), a black spacesuit, and a suspicious toolbox. There's also the occasional wizard spellbook or soulstone belt. Out in space you've got the crashed syndicate ship and a few other items on board the Russian station.

[alexpkeaton]

 

I'm using the notion of "budget traitor items" here referenced from the link johannhawk mentioned earlier: http://nanotrasen.se/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7312

 

I think the easiest way to cut down on the validhunting and provide traitors with a risky, yet viable, path to avoid the validhunt, is to make the budget traitor items available aboard the station and in mining/space.

 

Maybe put 1-2 budget emags (high chance of disintigrating after use) in maintenance or the old bar, as well as a few places in space and in the drop list on the asteroid. It would invite a little !!FUN!! while providing cover for traitors.

 

Perhaps a budget chameleon jumpsuit could be put in the same drop frequency (high chance of shorting out on a silent timer after activation to a disco display, also high chance of when initially dropped, dropping a plain non-modifiable jumpsuit or a lizard suit). Seeing the clown walking around with a shorted out budget chameleon jumpsuit would be priceless!

 

And, I think the best way to integrate these things, is to make the budget versions possible in the protolathe using high illegal tech. I don't want to make these things possible for just miners and scientists, though, because that will just reinforce the validhunt, and why I am suggesting the (risky, I know) notion of dropping non-bomb budget traitor items in maintenance.

 

[johannhawk]

 

Perhaps a budget chameleon jumpsuit could be put in the same drop frequency (high chance of shorting out on a silent timer after activation to a disco display, also high chance of when initially dropped, dropping a plain non-modifiable jumpsuit or a lizard suit). Seeing the clown walking around with a shorted out budget chameleon jumpsuit would be priceless!

chameleon jumpsuit are harmless AF already, make it 10% chance of shorting out with each change, so people could willingly try to short it out, or roll the dice normally and have a proper chance to get the disguise they need.

 

[johannhawk]

 

This only is a reason more to damage station property, and give security a legit reason to grief other people by saying "We are securing illegal equipment on the station".

well...shit.

 

but i can recall the many times almost the entire crew went to the gateway once it was added so they can find all the secret loot that lies beyond, (oh god all the LMGs from the syndie base map), but it eventually died down as people realized it took far too much effort to do it every shift, especially when theres a chance its the gateway map you dont want.

 

but im not sure about a thing that requires luck or MAD minefield [the game] skills to find.