Space law and SoP Overhauls

[necaladun]

 

Over the next few days/weeks I will be looking at overhauling space law and SoP.

 

Here is a sample to the Space Law changes. I want to bring all of them in at once to avoid confusion and a constantly changing space law.

 

http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Space_law_wip

 

 

Feedback, ideas, loopholes, etc, should be discussed here. There'll be announcements etc when this changes - for now it's just a WIP.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

I assume it's ok to post suggestions?

A law for kidnapping would be nice.

I also like what you did with minor assault.

 

[davidchan]

 

Can we get some clarification on full stripping and when it's okay to remove certain items?

 

Lots of officers seem to think it's okay or even standard procedure to take away PDAs and headsets for even the most minor crimes (such as vandalism), when you confront them about this they say it's not full stripping because they left your shoes and jumpsuit on.

 

[johannhawk]

 

now i can use ''minor assault'' to make the lines of acceptable self defense clearer, and also get people arrested for pushing me onto the ground ''cuz they can''

 

also, if i can flip the tables, i could somehow get Ian's murderers to get DOUBLE the jail time (5 for killing Ian, 5 for lying about me killing Ian) if i manage to debunk their accusations against me.

 

EDIT: oh nice, there are now separate perma crimes and capital crimes

 

Edited July 28, 2015 by Guest

[necaladun]

 

I assume it's ok to post suggestions?

A law for kidnapping would be nice.

I also like what you did with minor assault.

 

Exactly why I posted here

 

Kidnapping generally is covered by assault, but it makes sense to have extra charges there! Any suggestions for wording/level of crime/etc?

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

Kidnapping, perhaps a major crime.

Taking another crewmember from their current whereabouts unwillingly, by force.

A mere basis, but a start.

 

Also, just thought of another one: Neglect of duty.

A ten minute crime.

"Refusing to do your job. This includes a medical doctor not healing patients (Individually or as a whole.), engineers not setting up the engine, security getting drunk in the bar, among other things."

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

So if I break into medbay, take one medkit, and disarm the doctor who responds by attempting to repeatedly punch me---I get sent to the brig for 25 minutes. This doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun and sounds more like a return to officers getting to brig people for just about anything they want for obscene time durations.

 

Not being allowed to summarily execute vampires, changelings, or shadowlings is also problematic (not to mention killing thralls is literally the only way to set the Shadowling back), as permabrig just can't contain them...also, xecution is about the only option for dealing with head revs unless you want endless rounds.

 

side note: you really screwed up the tables =p

 

[davidchan]

 

So if I break into medbay, take one medkit, and disarm the doctor who responds by attempting to repeatedly punch me---I get sent to the brig for 25 minutes. This doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun and sounds more like a return to officers getting to brig people for just about anything they want for obscene time durations.

 

Kinda a bad example, since you shouldn't be breaking into medical to steal supplies, especially if doctors are around to stop you. If 25 minutes will ruin your round, how is the player who might actually die of severe wounds going to feel when medical doesn't have supplies to treat him?

 

I admit that some of these times are excessive, though most of security doesn't care and will brig anyone they can. Old spess law is over a year out of date but we had an hos trying to enforce abuse of comms. Space law and recommended brig times aren't the problem here, we just need more admins to watch security players and jobban anyone who abuses the role and goes shitsec.

 

As for no executions of confirmed lings, shadows/thralls and vampires, I have to agree that if you recognize one of these antags, their obvious threat to crew and nearly impossible to contain in perma should warrent more extreme measures. That, and we need a fucking way to deconvet thralls.

 

[necaladun]

 

So if I break into medbay, take one medkit, and disarm the doctor who responds by attempting to repeatedly punch me---I get sent to the brig for 25 minutes. This doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun and sounds more like a return to officers getting to brig people for just about anything they want for obscene time durations.

 

 

Theft and trespass have not been changed. The only difference is 5 minutes less for the assault, as a disarm is no longer a medium crime.

 

I don't see at all how that situation would occur because of the changes here. Assault covered any use of physical force previously. But yes, trespass and theft are crimes, I haven't changed that nor do I plan to remove it.

 

Head revs are guilty of mutiny, as stated under loyalty implants.

 

Vampires and lings are to be permad unless they escape or have murdered. Solitary is a good start there. Welding vents etc will be needed for lings, holy water for vamps with enough blood.

 

 

Shadowlings aren't in rotation - partially because there is no way to deconvert yet. If execution of thralls is the only way to stop ascension then that should be added, but until shadowling is ready to go live there is no real need for that.

 

[tigercat2000]

 

Not being allowed to summarily execute vampires, changelings, or shadowlings is also problematic (not to mention killing thralls is literally the only way to set the Shadowling back), as permabrig just can't contain them...also, xecution is about the only option for dealing with head revs unless you want endless rounds.

 

I'm pretty sure head revs can be exiled or sent to the labor camp to count as a failed rev head. If not, probably should, the heads and rev heads should be on equal ground.

 

And as for your other points, those are covered by escaping from permabrig- if they insist on resisting, execution is allowed.

 

Also, just thought of another one: Neglect of duty.

A ten minute crime.

"Refusing to do your job. This includes a medical doctor not healing patients (Individually or as a whole.), engineers not setting up the engine, security getting drunk in the bar, among other things."

 

Neglect of duty was one of the worst parts of the old space law. The specific phrasing you have there can be pushed extremely far for things that really aren't a problem.

"This includes a medical doctor not healing patients (Individually or as a whole.)", so, if I refuse to heal an injured guy that keeps punching every medical staff that gets near, I can be arrested? Or, perhaps, a patient keeps stabbing themselves, I'm expected to treat them under threat of arrest?

"Engineers not setting up the engine", this isn't worth being arrested. That's just going to cause more power delays. And, that specific phrasing could reasonably be interpreted as "if they decide to setup anything but the singularity for power".

"Security getting drunk in the bar" It's not helping anyone if the officers arrest each other for 10 minutes just for going to the bar. Antihol exists for a reason, officers don't necessarily need to be stalking maintnance 24/7.

"Among other things" is extremely vague.

 

[necaladun]

 

Neglect of duty is planned to be handled in sop changes, which will have specific guidelines on what people can be fired for for each job. Refusing to set up the engine when ordered to, etc, would be grounds for firing.

 

Refusing to hand in your id/gear is then theft.

 

[davidchan]

 

Neglect of duty is planned to be handled in sop changes, which will have specific guidelines on what people can be fired for for each job. Refusing to set up the engine when ordered to, etc, would be grounds for firing.

 

Refusing to hand in your id/gear is then theft.

 

 

Please please please tell me that neglect of duty is going to be more indepth for 'not doing your job'.

 

If I get arrested a doctor for refusing to treat an uncooperative or otherwise impossible to deal with patient... ugh, well worse things are probably going to happen.

 

[necaladun]

 

The plan is for a detailed list of things for each job. Failure to do your job is standard in any of those - generally job bannable too - but obviously not if your patient is actively attacking you.

 

Again, it won't be illegal, but it will be grounds for firing, demotion or probation. IAA, the nt rep and hop will be able to help judge niche cases where there is argument it's not a legitimate grounds for dismissal.

 

[Spacemanspark]

Uncooperative/ self harming patients should obviously be exempt. I was being vague for a reason, as I know there was a lot of split sides on neglect of duty.

[necaladun]

 

Added Kidnapping:

 

Kidnapping - 312

The unlawful taking away or transportation of a person against that person's will, usually to hold the person unlawfully.

 

This is in addition to any assault charges. Taking someone out of an area they are trespassing in is not kidnapping. Welding them into a locker and leaving them in maint however, is.

 

[Coldflame]

 

A few rough suggestions, might think of some others later:

 

-Unlawful Obstruction (Minor)- To, without good reason, prevent or create an obstacle to security forces ability to operate efficiently or detaining a known offender. You may also be considered guilty of this offence if you attempt to assist security without their consent and in doing so directly prevent their success, however this is at the discretion of the warden, magistrate and HoS. For example, dragging a prisoner away from sec officers because you believe them to be innocent instead of going through proper channels.

 

-Abuse of position (Medium+demotion)- To, beyond the level of neglect, use your job role on the station for personal gain or to assist towards other crimes. For example, an engineer failing to set up the engine or scientist refusing to research would not be guilty of this crime- A sec officer or doctor taking advantage of someone in their care's vulnerability, or the HoP creating all-access IDs without consent or good reason would be. You would also be guilty of this offence if you misused equipment available to you, for example the HoP or BP using their weaponry in situations outside of self defence.

 

-Excessive Inconvenience (Minor)- To take excessive or repeated steps with the sole intent of causing unprovoked annoyance, inconvenience, or inability to work, to an individual without apparent intent to cause actual harm. This could range from repeated vandalism of workspace, slipdragging someone for extended periods of time, or following a specific person around harassing them for an extremely long period of time after being asked to stop. Slipping people over or annoying people on purpose to a reasonable level does not fall under this offence.

 

-Wasting Security Time (Minor)- Intentionally taking steps to falsely incite security forces to take steps to prevent a crime you are fully aware has no risk of happening. Waving around an ID with decal or an Arcade Machine toy does not constitute an offence- Creating a fake crime scene or asking someone to report your possessions of the fake items would. Reporting a fake crime or acting as if a member of a hostile organization (Cult of Nar'Sie, Wizard Federation, etc) may also make you guilty of this offence, severity and time cost taken into account.

 

[David Rossi]

 

dragging a prisoner away from sec officers because you believe them to be innocent instead of going through proper channels.

 

 

That'd be aiding and abetting, same sentence as the criminal in question.

 

Other than that the last two seem like something that'd cause sec to just arrest absolutely everyone for having a goof around, a little joke which alot of sec officers would take on the cheek rather than hunting them down to arrest them for a 5 minute sentence.

 

[Coldflame]

 

dragging a prisoner away from sec officers because you believe them to be innocent instead of going through proper channels.

 

 

That'd be aiding and abetting, same sentence as the criminal in question.

 

Other than that the last two seem like something that'd cause sec to just arrest absolutely everyone for having a goof around, a little joke which alot of sec officers would take on the cheek rather than hunting them down to arrest them for a 5 minute sentence.

Aiding and abetting is usually only enforced with regards to accomplices, though it could be applied. Not to mention the kind of person who would be dragging people away from officers is the kind of person who would cry shitcurity and constantly complain 'I didn't break any laws'.

 

The last two are no worse than vandalism or resisting arrest with regards to officers who want to brig everyone for as long as they can. I just feel that sec need more tools in their proverbial arsenal towards people who intentionally load up on fake traitor gear and walk around maint until they see a sec officer then run away pointing at their decaled ID, or people who will follow someone around an entire shift trying to make them have less fun for whatever minor reason happened within the first quarter-hour of the shift (also, slipdragging for periods upwards of fifteen minutes is still not something you can be charged with at really needs to be).

 

[David Rossi]

 

Aiding and abetting is usually only enforced with regards to accomplices, though it could be applied. Not to mention the kind of person who would be dragging people away from officers is the kind of person who would cry shitcurity and constantly complain 'I didn't break any laws'.

 

The last two are no worse than vandalism or resisting arrest with regards to officers who want to brig everyone for as long as they can. I just feel that sec need more tools in their proverbial arsenal towards people who intentionally load up on fake traitor gear and walk around maint until they see a sec officer then run away pointing at their decaled ID, or people who will follow someone around an entire shift trying to make them have less fun for whatever minor reason happened within the first quarter-hour of the shift (also, slipdragging for periods upwards of fifteen minutes is still not something you can be charged with at really needs to be).

 

You're right with that one about crying shitcurity ;p

 

To be honest, if someone is trying to eff with you as sec, you'd normally take these scenarios as a serious issue that they might /actually/ be a operative, the amount of times I've had a fake crypto and tricked sec into it, I eventually get caught and the decal is just removed, but I see where you'd be coming from if you've spent like 15 minutes upwards chasing this dude with a fake crypto when there could be; a traitor stealing the Cap's laser gun, someone murdering the RD, someone absorbing the CMO in maint etc.etc. But really, they'd be resisting arrest so you've got something to brig them for once ya catch them.

 

The abuse of duty, I think that's best for SOP changes really.

 

[Coldflame]

 

Aiding and abetting is usually only enforced with regards to accomplices, though it could be applied. Not to mention the kind of person who would be dragging people away from officers is the kind of person who would cry shitcurity and constantly complain 'I didn't break any laws'.

 

The last two are no worse than vandalism or resisting arrest with regards to officers who want to brig everyone for as long as they can. I just feel that sec need more tools in their proverbial arsenal towards people who intentionally load up on fake traitor gear and walk around maint until they see a sec officer then run away pointing at their decaled ID, or people who will follow someone around an entire shift trying to make them have less fun for whatever minor reason happened within the first quarter-hour of the shift (also, slipdragging for periods upwards of fifteen minutes is still not something you can be charged with at really needs to be).

 

You're right with that one about crying shitcurity ;p

 

To be honest, if someone is trying to eff with you as sec, you'd normally take these scenarios as a serious issue that they might /actually/ be a operative, the amount of times I've had a fake crypto and tricked sec into it, I eventually get caught and the decal is just removed, but I see where you'd be coming from if you've spent like 15 minutes upwards chasing this dude with a fake crypto when there could be; a traitor stealing the Cap's laser gun, someone murdering the RD, someone absorbing the CMO in maint etc.etc. But really, they'd be resisting arrest so you've got something to brig them for once ya catch them.

 

The abuse of duty, I think that's best for SOP changes really.

Generally the process for such a situation the following takes place:

 

-Non-sec or Rookie/Incompetent officer sees someone with fake trator gear

-Reports as confirmed traitor

-'Suspect' gets tracked down over the course of a 20-minute manhunt without surrendering or stating the items are fake

-Arrested and searched

-Released without penalty despite having inconvenienced most of sec at the best, or the entire station at the worst in a completely avoidable manner.

 

Considering the entire situation can be averted through the person being looked for saying the items are fake, making it a crime you could potentially get a couple minutes for doesn't really seem that severe.

 

Abuse of duty is intended for situations that go above the level of a SOP violation.

 

[David Rossi]

 

Generally the process for such a situation the following takes place:

 

-Non-sec or Rookie/Incompetent officer sees someone with fake trator gear

-Reports as confirmed traitor

-'Suspect' gets tracked down over the course of a 20-minute manhunt without surrendering or stating the items are fake

-Arrested and searched

-Released without penalty despite having inconvenienced most of sec at the best, or the entire station at the worst in a completely avoidable manner.

 

Considering the entire situation can be averted through the person being looked for saying the items are fake, making it a crime you could potentially get a couple minutes for doesn't really seem that severe.

 

Abuse of duty is intended for situations that go above the level of a SOP violation.

 

Well, I'd probably mark them down for resisting arrest even if found out innocent, but would you go as far to say that'd be sabotage? That's obviously something new space law could take into consideration!

 

Annnnnnnnd, ehh.. I think being demoted is enough if you've given out all access IDs is enough imo, but say.. the all access ID then led to the antique laser gun being stolen because of this silly action, could it count as aiding and abetting? How would the HoP know that him being a 'crapper' would lead to these actions (-shrugs- maybe a cute little note saying "giving out all access does not maximise efficiency, DO NOT DO IT.) (But really, giving out all access IDs would probably get you a bwoink from an admin and even a job ban for doing it) and again, this could be something which could be incorporated into new space law! But the other examples mentioned could most likely come under assault and other offences.

 

Hopefully some of these examples we've discussed could lead to positive changes in new space law! Glad we had a nice chat, I'm gonna head off now!

 

[necaladun]

 

I'd like to avoid anything with "excessive" etc in the description - what is or isn't excessive is very very subjective. All the laws should be clear not just for sec, but for crew. It should be obvious when you're breaking a law.

 

Unlawful Obstruction - mostly covered by aiding and abetting

Abuse of position - the use of a weapon is covered under assault

Excessive Inconvenience - again, subjective. Is slipping someone twice? four times? 10? These things need clear guidelines. Repeated vandalism is covered by vandalism.

Wasting Security Time - This is just way too likely to be used by shitcurity.

 

Something for illegally gaining access/giving it out might be good - the classic is using the HoP's ID when it's left in the machine.

 

[Coldflame]

 

I'd like to avoid anything with "excessive" etc in the description - what is or isn't excessive is very very subjective. All the laws should be clear not just for sec, but for crew. It should be obvious when you're breaking a law.

 

Unlawful Obstruction - mostly covered by aiding and abetting

Abuse of position - the use of a weapon is covered under assault

Excessive Inconvenience - again, subjective. Is slipping someone twice? four times? 10? These things need clear guidelines. Repeated vandalism is covered by vandalism.

Wasting Security Time - This is just way too likely to be used by shitcurity.

 

Something for illegally gaining access/giving it out might be good - the classic is using the HoP's ID when it's left in the machine.

 

Unlawful obstruction- 'Aiding and abetting- Knowingly assisting a criminal is a crime.' Whilst preventing an arrest could fall under this, it doesn't cover situations involving incompetence during an arrest, people trying to be helpful and letting criminals get away, or interfering with an investigation or brig processing.

 

Abuse of position- The assault charge doesn't carry any penalty for misusing a weapon you're given nor does it lead to the weapon being revoked. Assault also doesn't cover other abuses of you job such as misusing ID computers or abusing arrest powers as an officer.

 

Excessive Inconvenience- The charge is very subjective and certainly needs some cleaning up, but currently, it's not an offence to continually stay just shy of crossing the law whilst trying to ruin an individual's round. Perhaps if it were somehow quantified it could work, though again that just creates problems of skirting the line.

 

Wasting sec time- Shitcurity will be shitcurity, though it's probably valid that giving it more tools isn't a great idea.

 

[necaladun]

 

Unlawful obstruction- 'Aiding and abetting- Knowingly assisting a criminal is a crime.' Whilst preventing an arrest could fall under this, it doesn't cover situations involving incompetence during an arrest, people trying to be helpful and letting criminals get away, or interfering with an investigation or brig processing.

 

 

I don't see why this needs to exist. If someone is trying to be helpful and it causes a criminal to get away, brigging them (especially for 5 minutes) just makes things harder.

 

Abuse of position- The assault charge doesn't carry any penalty for misusing a weapon you're given nor does it lead to the weapon being revoked. Assault also doesn't cover other abuses of you job such as misusing ID computers or abusing arrest powers as an officer.

 

 

Better covered under SoP - if they can't be trusted with the tools of their position, they should be demoted.

 

Excessive Inconvenience- The charge is very subjective and certainly needs some cleaning up, but currently, it's not an offence to continually stay just shy of crossing the law whilst trying to ruin an individual's round. Perhaps if it were somehow quantified it could work, though again that just creates problems of skirting the line.

 

 

Nor will it ever be an offence to stay just shy of crossing the law - either if it's an offence, or it's not. A "catch-all" clause like that is way to open to abuse. The intent here is to instead make crimes out of things that were technically legal but shouldn't be - like identity theft.

 

A restraining order or injunction might be useful for repeated harassment, but this ideally will also be covered by SoP and demotion grounds. Repeatedly harassing a co-worker is grounds for being fired.

 

[Coldflame]

 

UO- You shouldn't be involving yourself in an arrest as non-sec. If you do and let a changeling or vampire get away, you're putting the crew in jepoardy, something which is deserving of a space law charge if the magistrate or warden deem it so.

 

AoP- The idea for this charge was to introduce brig time as a measure for individuals who take actions deserving further punishment than a demotion. If you choose a privileged position and knowingly abuse it to such a degree, you deserve more than a demotion.

 

EI-Demotions aren't an effective way of preventing harassment of a crew member. The most likely job to be harassing someone is a civilian or clown, both of whom are more or less ineligible to be demoted in any meaningful way. Without such a charge, there's simply no way for such a person to be punished without delivering a sentence outside of space law, which indicated a need for the crime to be introduced.