Lockbox SecHUDs

[Coldflame]

SecHUDs (all three varieties) are extremely abusable, have no practical use for non-sec roles, and there's no reason for them not to be lockboxed. There's not much else to say on the topic.

[Shadeykins]

 

As someone who jumps into R&D now and then I can stand behind this pretty solidly.

 

It's more or less a way for Science to dominate the entire station or be invulnerable if Robotics decides they want to make a bunch of securitrons or ED's.

 

Just lock them behind basic security access, so they can still be easily printed out and taken by security officers who swing by R&D.

 

[davidchan]

 

No. Lockboxes are the plague of rnd anyways, locking nonlethal items is stupid, security is getting insane power creep as is, yet little to no deterents to stop them from interfering with other embers of the crew.

 

I'm already getting sick of blueshields and heads of security using rnd as their personal resupply, locking even more crap in rnd is only going to reinforce and affirm this. What's next, moving rnd to security so warden pop in any time he wants?

 

Security is supposed to work WITH the other departments so everyone can do their job safely, not arbitrarily demand people do stuff for them or seek permission to do their damn jobs.

 

Ontop of this, revs, raiders, shadowlings can't bypass lockboxes without getting armory access, which isn't always easy or possible, let alone more lockboxes just making emags more common, you shouldn't feel required to buy a crypto as a traitor in order to do your objectives.

 

[Shadeykins]

Lockboxes can be analyzed without being unlocked now, and basic security access is pretty easy to come by, which is what I was suggesting for it.

[Kluys]

 

not to mention the fact that locking away sec huds doesnt give security any more power, it just keeps the security records from being messed with to much

sec records are what a -good- security force needs to function and making sec huds available to tons of people would mean destabalizing their entire system.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

Totally supporting this and honestly there is no reason to argue about this. Either security huds cannot be used without securty ID access. Or put it in a locked box, locked by simple security ID.

 

Wardens and who else is asking for weapons could still be turned down by a scientist / RD. The lockboxes simply protect the entire crew from the disability of almost every science player to properly RP, which would arm themselfs any chance they get.

 

And i have still no idea why Robotics weapons doesn't come in a locked box. If science is unable to keep in RP and work with security and command in regards to weapons, then they must be stopped via ingame means.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

And i have still no idea why Robotics weapons doesn't come in a locked box. If science is unable to keep in RP and work with security and command in regards to weapons, then they must be stopped via ingame means.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5355

 

[Tauka Usanake]

I can't say I like the idea of Security scouters being put behind a lockbox. I don't understand how they are dangerous to any non-sec crew. From what I understand on it, it's just a heads up display of the crew's job and security status, also if they are implanted or not. I can't honestly see how this would work for someone unless they are meta-gaming. Unless I'm missing something?

[Blackmage199]

 

I can't say I like the idea of Security scouters being put behind a lockbox. I don't understand how they are dangerous to any non-sec crew. From what I understand on it, it's just a heads up display of the crew's job and security status, also if they are implanted or not. I can't honestly see how this would work for someone unless they are meta-gaming. Unless I'm missing something?

You can update security records, wanted level and the such with them. An abuse can surely be deducted from these facts, such as someone using them to set themselves off arrest, and setting an officer wanted while a convenient Beepsky passes by.

 

[Lolzyking]

Lockboxes don't stop smart scientists anyway.....Its not like science cant make emps.....

[Shadeykins]

 

Lockboxes don't stop smart scientists anyway.....Its not like science cant make emps.....

 

Which are incredibly noticeable.

 

If a traitor really wants sec glasses, they're free to EMP/EMAG the case.

 

Regular scientists don't need them, fullstop.

 

RnD is not security, and subsequently should not have easy and unlimited access to modify security records on the fly.

 

[Kharshai]

Definitely agree, mass producing sec huds between scientists and the crew can seriously interrupt the efficiency of a Security team, and is often done by people who aren't even traitors or antagonists.

[Mrs Dobbins]

 

Lockboxes are, I my honest opinion pretty stupid.

If a non traitor antag wants to pack some heat, then they have to either have stolen sec access (which 99% of the time involves murder, and thanks to those "100% balanced, honest guys!" instastuns, isn't always feasible). Giving sec yet another power creep would be disastrous, As the age old tactic of whining at sec until they let you have ed-209 parts and then roaming the halls setting targets and heads of staff to arrest now costs telecrystals.

 

[Kluys]

 

As the age old tactic of whining at sec until they let you have ed-209 parts and then roaming the halls setting targets and heads of staff to arrest now costs telecrystals.

 

1. this isnt a powercreep since sec doesnt get more power, research (the most overpowered department) just gets less.

 

2. What you're saying there as a "tactic" is the reason these things should be locked in the first place since this isnt something only antags can do. Just to give a little insight ,I deal with sec hud griefers atleast two times each week these days and due to busyness I only manage to play 1 or 2 shifts a day.

 

3. Research isnt supposed to have these, why WOULDNT they be in a lockbox.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

And i have still no idea why Robotics weapons doesn't come in a locked box. If science is unable to keep in RP and work with security and command in regards to weapons, then they must be stopped via ingame means.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5355

All i really see is there is an inconclusive topic that just died out.

 

Lockboxes don't stop smart scientists anyway.....Its not like science cant make emps.....

First off, players should already know that they are not allowed to carry lethal weapons as scientist, but somehow they don't know this. Lockboxes are there to remind even the slowest scientist that it is illegal to carry lethals, they have to force a box open that they have no access to. It's a clear cut case for everyone involved, if a scientist is carrying a lethal he has forced it open and even the slowest security should know that this is illegal.

 

Appart from the fact that the lockbox slows you down an you have to fire of a EMP.

 

Back to topic:

Security is already performing very poorly as it is, robbing them of their only ingame support to sort of track what going on (Security Records) is just hurting everyone. The security records are locked with security access, that's a given fact! That the Security huds allow you access to security records has everything to do with an oversight of the person who coded them and nothing to do with an engaging mechanic, it's just a trollfest.

 

It is simply a bug. Either make the security record part of the the HUDs only usable with security ID or lock this thing away in a locked box. There first solution would problably make more sense, but the second will most likely be easier to implement.

 

[dreadweaver]

I hate fun - The Thread.

[improvedname]

Or just make security huds need security access requirement to it

[Mrs Dobbins]

 

 

2. What you're saying there as a "tactic" is the reason these things should be locked in the first place since this isnt something only antags can do. Just to give a little insight ,I deal with sec hud griefers atleast two times each week these days and due to busyness I only manage to play 1 or 2 shifts a day.

 

 

 

Apologies, I'm not very eloquent in the mornings. What I meant was that it is a very useful tactic for revs and other antags.

As dread said, it is impossible to make a fun station that is also grief-proof.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

I hate fun - The Thread.

Way to be a role model for other players.

 

[dreadweaver]

 

I hate fun - The Thread.

Way to be a role model for other players.

I wanted to express my dislike for black and white solutions like this. Yours is basically: there is this hard-to-solve problem which people dislike when happens (I rarely see it though), please lock this away in a lockbox.

 

If anyone'd be willing to code it, I'd offer a more unique, IC-ly feasible solution: make so that the security records actually record who tampers with them and what they do with them - then security can track down people who use security huds for wrong.

 

Other than that? Yes, I think it's fun to set security officers to arrest right as they pass beepsky.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

Other than that? Yes, I think it's fun to set security officers to arrest right as they pass beepsky.

The amount if crap you have to deal with when playing security is crazy. The fact that we keep screwing security over with things like this, only results in security continuing beeing one of the least played jobs on the station. Which in turn results in very poor performance of security, because all experienced players will sooner or later realise that playing security is a massive pain in the ass and not worth sinking your time in.

 

All we are left with are a bunch of new / inexperienced players that don't have proper guidance and thus we create shitcurity as it currently exists.

 

[pinatacolada]

 

If anyone'd be willing to code it, I'd offer a more unique, IC-ly feasible solution: make so that the security records actually record who tampers with them and what they do with them - then security can track down people who use security huds for wrong.

 

pls

 

It'd also allow us to yell at whoever sets arrests in a legitimate way, but without adding a note why in the comments section.

 

[davidchan]

 

Other than that? Yes, I think it's fun to set security officers to arrest right as they pass beepsky.

The amount if crap you have to deal with when playing security is crazy. The fact that we keep screwing security over with things like this, only results in security continuing beeing one of the least played jobs on the station. Which in turn results in very poor performance of security, because all experienced players will sooner or later realise that playing security is a massive pain in the ass and not worth sinking your time in.

 

All we are left with are a bunch of new / inexperienced players that don't have proper guidance and thus we create shitcurity as it currently exists.

 

I didn't stop playing Security because people would fuck with me. I rarely had issues with most crew, to be honest. Sure the occasional Civilian or Clown would try something, but I never found it to be infurating. Then again, I treated the crew with respect and only forced my way into someone's work area if I felt it vital to their safety or the safety of another crew (someone screaming over radio the Chef locked them in the freezer, for example.) Non-Security crew would talk to me, report crimes and many would aid me if I ever was robusted or injured by antags beyond my ability to fight, and all of this on a character I soley played as a Security Officer.

 

I stopped playing Security because of Internal Issues. Head of Securities not knowing Space Law, not enforcing Standard Operating Procedure, Wardens grabbing guns from the armory and patrolling the station, Security members openly beating prisoners, interrogations taking place in the Processing room (which isn't fucking secure or wise), and the most egregious thing to me was Security not utilizing Security Records. Sure, they'd occasionally set someone to wanted. But they'd never add a note as to WHY the person was wanted, never respond to radio hails about the arrest status until after I released the person, and they never seemed capable of changing the arrest status after a person has been detained or incarcerated, often resulting in Beepsky assaulting people already in the brig cell or who are leaving security because they served their time, starting the rollercoaster all over again.

 

Security doesn't need their items kept in lockboxes, or keyed to their IDs. This only harms antagonists and reduces what they can do. How do you propose a Cult or Revolution is to get a hold of Security HUDs to keep tabs on if Security is seeking out their members, especially if they are trying to be stealthy. Killing a Security officer will only expose them, as will assaulting or breaking into the HoP or Captain's office. Cults and Revs also get extra bonus from SecHUDs by them showing who is implanted and who is not.

 

Locking up Security gear is about as dumb as making it so First Aid kits only open for someone with medical access. Traitors or Changlings who can steal access easily might be able to waltz right in, but there are other antagonist roles who do not have the same capabilities and are thus extremely hindered by these safeguards. If non-antags are abusing this function then jobban or ban them, but if Security is being robusted by Security Bots, it's their own damn fault for giving Robotics Stun Batons, Helmets and Tasers to make them, in addition to not paying attention at all to their own HUD displaying if they are set to wanted or not. Bots can also be turned off by security if they become a problem, all the more making this entire request seem nothing more than whining by inexpierenced security players rather than an actual imbalance.

 

Security isn't getting the shaft here, they enjoy plenty of priviledges and are marked as a difficult role for players to learn for a reason, stonewalling other roles from gaining access to their equipment in non-violent ways is just going to lead to more random attacks on Security officers through other means, SecHUD abuse is quite easy to circumvent by anyone with Security Records terminal. When ever I see security being attacked or harassed, it's almost always some Security Officer who was throwing his weight around early in the round, arresting people for a bad reason or doing random searches during a Code Green and when no Antag activity had been reported to the crew.

 

[Mrs Dobbins]

 

Other than that? Yes, I think it's fun to set security officers to arrest right as they pass beepsky.

The amount if crap you have to deal with when playing security is crazy. The fact that we keep screwing security over with things like this, only results in security continuing beeing one of the least played jobs on the station. Which in turn results in very poor performance of security, because all experienced players will sooner or later realise that playing security is a massive pain in the ass and not worth sinking your time in.

 

All we are left with are a bunch of new / inexperienced players that don't have proper guidance and thus we create shitcurity as it currently exists.

 

 

As a sec officer, its is your job to put up with the crew's shit. You can't play sec and expect to be liked by the crew in general, greytide is out to get you and most people (including myself,) are pretty judgemental about sec players.

Don't like being bottom of the pile? Stop playing sec.

You could probably make a convincing case about all long-term sec officers being mentally ill from either being huge masochists or utter meglomaniacs.

 

[Coldflame]

 

Most ot he arguments I see in this thread seem to be from the standpoint of crew interacting with sec being a 'us vs them' situation, which simply isn't the case. Non-sec, Non-antags have absolutely zero use for secHUDs if they don't intend on intentionally breaking the law (which is against the rules anyway, contrary to the actions of a significant portion of the playerbase), or vigilantism. There's no 'fun' use of a secHUD that doesn't involve being a dick to another player.

 

With regards to antags, lockboxes are far from impregnable. IDs with basic sec access aren't exactly challenging to get hold of for a crafty antag, and several antags have other methods into lockboxes. Not to mention secHUD's being powerful in the hands of an antag, and being available though other means.

 

In short: you don't need a secHUD if you're not:

-Sec

-An antag

-Intending on inconveniencing, or harming, other players, be it for 'fun' or vigilantism