Lockbox SecHUDs

[Fox McCloud]

 

intentionally breaking the law (which is against the rules anyway, contrary to the actions of a significant portion of the playerbase)

 

Um no, just no. Space law absolutely is NOT server rules; someone who breaks space law is NOT breaking serve rules, by any stretch. Space Law is an IC thing and game mechanic.

 

With regards to antags, lockboxes are far from impregnable. IDs with basic sec access aren't exactly challenging to get hold of for a crafty antag, and several antags have other methods into lockboxes. Not to mention secHUD's being powerful in the hands of an antag, and being available though other means.

 

I don't think you know how lockboxes work. They're literally impossible to open unless you have (1) ARMORY access (2) An Emag. There's literally only three people on the entire station who can open them, legally.

 

There's literally NO other way to possibly open them.

 

[Coldflame]

 

intentionally breaking the law (which is against the rules anyway, contrary to the actions of a significant portion of the playerbase)

 

Um no, just no. Space law absolutely is NOT server rules; someone who breaks space law is NOT breaking serve rules, by any stretch. Space Law is an IC thing and game mechanic.

 

With regards to antags, lockboxes are far from impregnable. IDs with basic sec access aren't exactly challenging to get hold of for a crafty antag, and several antags have other methods into lockboxes. Not to mention secHUD's being powerful in the hands of an antag, and being available though other means.

 

I don't think you know how lockboxes work. They're literally impossible to open unless you have (1) ARMORY access (2) An Emag. There's literally only three people on the entire station who can open them, legally.

 

There's literally NO other way to possibly open them.

http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Space_law - "Adminhelp if you wish to intentionally break the law."

 

As for lockboxes, it's been suggested multiple times that perhaps only a sec ID could be required. I was also under the impression that emp could break into a lockbox?

 

Those two aside, there's still zero reason for R&D or non-sec to have secHUDs.

 

[davidchan]

So vampires, revolutionaries, cultists, changelings, raiders, mutineers don't have use for these? Secuds are just fine in the hands of nonsec, I've yet to see one valid case for them to be locked up or an example in which they were abused by nonantags that doesn't underline incompetent security

[Fox McCloud]

 

intentionally breaking the law (which is against the rules anyway, contrary to the actions of a significant portion of the playerbase)

 

Could probably use better wording, but breaking Space Law is absolutely not breaking the server rules. If you ahelp over someone punching you once or trespassing into your space once---it's going to get you a "sounds like an IC issue to me" as a reply. Likewise with drug possesion and a plethora of others---it's on a case by case basis, but breaking laws, especially lower level ones, is not against the server rules.

 

 

Is for lockboxes, it's been suggested multiple times that perhaps only a sec ID could be required. I was also under the impression that emp could break into a lockbox?

 

As I said--literally nothing can open them except someone with armory access or an emag.

 

[Shadeykins]

Unless another lockbox is coded in, maybe one with a red stripe on it? Seems simple enough to me. Lower security box that's easier to crack.

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

@Fox McCloud

I think all of this boils down to the folowing question:

 

"Does it make sense that a SecHUDs and MedHUDs can change records without the coresponding access on the ID-Card?"

 

There is no other way to change this records, except from a Security or Medical terminal with the proper access on the ID. All other access to this records is read only like pAIs programms, PDA cartridges. Wouldn't it make sense that you at least have to swipe your ID once on your SecHUD in order for the SecHUD to have wirte access to the Security records?

 

[Kyet]

 

SecHUDs (all three varieties) are extremely abusable, have no practical use for non-sec roles, and there's no reason for them not to be lockboxed. There's not much else to say on the topic.

 

Yes, the ability to set anyone to arrest, despite not having sec access, is abusable.

Yes, the ability to see instantly when you are set to arrest, and hide / unset yourself, is abusable.

That said, there are MANY things on the station which are highly abusable. Syringe guns. Tool sets. Heck, one of the most abusable items is the humble gas mask - it hides your face. Take off your ID, wear a gas mask, and suddenly you're anonymous on the internet. Lots of SS13 items are abusable.

 

Also, sechuds DO have a practical use for non-sec roles. Showing job HUD icons. I try to get one every round I work in science, just for that feature alone.

 

From a RP point of view, it always struck me as somewhat unrealistic that *anything* is lockboxed, for two reasons:

A) Why would the R&D machine produce items, especially experimental items, in a lockbox? Even if that was a default setting, surely scientists could figure out how to make it just spit out the item itself, and would have motivation to do so, since that way they would not need to spend extra materials (RP wise) to have it construct the box around the item? Remember, we're talking science department here. The same department where any scientist can construct toxin bombs. Or breed deadly slimes. Or miscalculate with telesci and summon god-knows-what. We don't lockbox igniters, we don't lockbox the more dangerous slime cores, and we don't lockbox the telepad controls.

B) Lockboxes themselves are OP compared to other forms of secure storage in SS13. The captain's office is accessible in 10 seconds with an emag. The captain's safe, supposedly for the storage of top-secret materials, is accessible almost as quickly with a multitool. Even the station's vault, protecting the nuclear device, isn't as secure as your average lockbox. You can brute-force your way into the vault quite quickly, but the ONLY ways to open a lockbox are having access, or emag. Arguably, lockboxes are unrealistically secure given the standards of SS13.

 

Sure, some things need to be lockboxed for game balance, but I have to say, putting most things in lockboxes seems like a very lazy way to address problems.

 

If the problem is that sechuds let anyone play havoc with sec records at will, then force all changes to arrest status/etc made via a sec hud to create an automatic log entry with that person's ID. Heck, that should be the case anyway - just to help sec have records of arrest/etc status changes. Or simply require the wearer to have an ID with sec access equipped to change arrest status using a sec hud. Or both.

 

If the problem is that sec huds show your own arrest status, then stop them showing icons for your own character. You don't typically look at yourself, do you? They're glasses, after all.

 

Simply saying "oh, they're too useful, let's throw them in a lockbox" seems like a very lazy way to address the problem of people misusing them.

 

Also, I don't think people do misuse them a lot. I typically play roles with sci and/or sec radio access, and multiple rounds per day lately. I can remember... one time that someone screwed up the round by playing with arrest statuses? Even then, they were using a sec records console, not a sec hud, to do it. If people are abusing sec huds a lot, I haven't seen it.

 

[AzyWng]

 

@Fox McCloud

I think all of this boils down to the folowing question:

 

"Does it make sense that a SecHUDs and MedHUDs can change records without the coresponding access on the ID-Card?"

 

There is no other way to change this records, except from a Security or Medical terminal with the proper access on the ID. All other access to this records is read only like pAIs programms, PDA cartridges. Wouldn't it make sense that you at least have to swipe your ID once on your SecHUD in order for the SecHUD to have wirte access to the Security records?

 

I think that requiring a proper ID to be equipped would be an easy enough means of not having a greytide/traitor set everyone else to arrest.

 

[Lolzyking]

you could just change the records on examine to require and Id swipe on the hud to go to the records screen, but otherwise function, Its useful for RnD to decided who is trust worthy with toys like a bag of holding, or nv goggles, ect

[Tauka Usanake]

Why do SecHUDs and MedHUDs have the ability to set records anyways? That's what the computers are for. If you want a mobile means of setting records then you should have a laptop computer or possibility do so on a PDA with the correct access/cartridge in it. HUDs should be just what they are, a Heads Up Display of what you are looking at and nothing more. Besides, I'm sure everyone wants to swipe their ID against their head in order to use something.

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

Why do SecHUDs and MedHUDs have the ability to set records anyways? That's what the computers are for. If you want a mobile means of setting records then you should have a laptop computer or possibility do so on a PDA with the correct access/cartridge in it. HUDs should be just what they are, a Heads Up Display of what you are looking at and nothing more.

Changing records via the HUDs is very convenient and removing this option would only result in security records not beeing used at all, but it would be really useful if it's automagicly loged who changed the arrest status.

 

Besides, I'm sure everyone wants to swipe their ID against their head in order to use something.

I don't think it's to unrealistic to have to swipe your ID once on your headset in order to transfer the access to your secHUD and gain the abillity to change records. It would finally explain why a secHUD has access to the write record database. Stolen and activated headset could still access the sec recrods, but it would stop people from literally printing security access out of thin air via a protolathe.

 

[Fox McCloud]

In this scenario, having an access check to set status would likely be the best bet.