Remove rule 6

[PPI]

 

Rule 6 is basically a limitation for antags, especially when valid hunting is a thing.

 

Let them do whatever is needed to complete their mission.

 

[NTSAM]

 

How is it a limitation, exactly?

Is it limiting their ability to bomb the shit out of the whole station and cause assloads lag when they only have to escape alive and steal the hand tele?

 

Real-lightnin'-quick-edit: I'm pretty sure you're allowed to defend yourself against those that pose a threat against you as an antag. If not, then that kinda does need fixing, as you'd probably wanna kill the dude that keeps chasing you down with the energy gun he greytided just for you. But still, we don't need people going on murderboning sprees over nothing.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

Silencing/eliminating witnesses that pose a threat to you completing your objective has always been permissible to a certain degree.

[Fox McCloud]

 

If this is done, it will do a LOT of harm to RP---I will warn you guys about that up front.

 

It means that the average round duration will drop from 2 hours to probably around 45-75 minutes...because it means that you can wrack up a large body count in no time flat. It also means that the engineer can release the singularity 5 minutes in...or toxins scientist can set up 6 max size tank transfers over the station and blow them all---15 minutes in.

 

It also generates an environment where everyone is paranoid and in fear of their life from literally everyone---no longer is an antag a threat to just his target/objective, he's a threat to the ENTIRE station.

 

Oh, and if you thought validhunting was bad now? It will turn literally anyone and everyone into a validhunter--even those who are normally super peaceful. Why? Because if you don't validhunt, then you and everyone around you is likely going to die once a traitor starts tatorin'.

 

I have very very mixed feelings on the issue--on one hand, I love the creativity that comes with this--on the other though, the damage it does to RP is incredibly high (in my opinion). Generally speaking, personally, I feel this would not be a good direction for Paradise to head in--I'd rather see more RP (and less validhunting/people faffing off/etc) than go in the direction here...but that's my own two cents.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

They CAN do what's needed to complete their mission. Head of Security catches you breaking into the armory for that ablative vest? Take his ass out (And likely the rest of security as well.).

They don't need to go on murderboning sprees because 'Hey! I rolled traitor!' unless they get escape alone.

 

If we remove rule 6, I will seriously go on a chainsaw spree with some bombs. Why? Because that's what every other antag is going to be doing.

 

 

[davidchan]

 

6-8 Months ago I might have agreed with you. I felt antags should generally do what they want to complete their objectives, as long as they honestly say their destructive or violent actions directly lead to progress in their objective. (Killing someone for their access okay, killing witnesses to preserve your identity okay, killing the bartender or librarian for lulz not okay, ect...) Specifically, I had an objective to kill a Security Officer (Sergey) and escape alive. I set up my Singulo Beacon in northern tunnels above the libarary/near the old bar, ran engineering and hacked my way into the PA room and set it to 2. As I was leaving I got an admin PM telling me to fix the PA or get an antag ban. I was kinda mad because I didn't get my TCs back for my beacon, and had risk being discovered even more by fixing the PA. Ended up having to try an kill Sergey by C4ing, which didn't work as expected and just made his arm blow off.

 

Fast forward a couple months and I start playing on /tg/. For those that don't play on /tg/, antags can murder who ever they want. Non-antags are even allowed to kill people if they can justify it, the clown constantly slipping you and stealing your shit, for example, or you are just a racist person (Lizardpeople are the only non-human playable race, and not protected under AI laws or space law.) Quite often, you'll see a person going on a killing spree killing anyone they see with one of the many over powered tg coderbus things, like guardian spirits. As a miner I got gunned down by a tator scientists after I was brining in my second load of materials, I thought it suspicious that she wouldn't give me better gear my first time in, but was intent on just breaking open RnD and getting what I needed if they were going to be dicks about it. Arrive to find most of science dead and a person in a redsuit murdering everyone with an smg. Her objectives? Steal magboots. Not CE magboots, just regular magboots that RnD can print off like candy when a miner is active. She bombed escape and murdered most of the crew, including everyone that somehow made it to the shuttle after her bombing spree, she literally was a sole survivor despite having one of the easiest non-violent objectives to accomplish, nobody even asks fucking questions to a scientist wearing magboots.

 

The only way to remove rule 6 would be to seperate objectives into violent and non-violent objectives and make custom TC menus for each. And that would be too much snowflake code and defeat the purpose of the objectives and antag system. If you really want to go on a killing spree as an antag, be sloppy and let security expose you, but don't complain when 20 valid hunting greytiders robust your ass and steal all your shit and space your mutilated corpse. I'm not in anyway favoring something that would limit or make things harder for antags, especially non-traitor/non-changling antags, but removing rule 6 is just going to mean a lot more massacres and a lot more people complaining in deadchat because they were gunned down for being nearby. I for one am happy that bar and medical bombings are practically non-existant now, and would fucking adore it if the cloner was moved farther into medical so it was harder to bomb and take out by antags intent on preventing people from being cloned the asshole way.

 

[Tauka Usanake]

 

*snippety-snip

That /tg/ round sounded like a one-man Death Squad. To keep on topic I don't like the idea of having someone go about killing everyone just because they're antag (I already had to deal with one little shit from old server who would murder if he so much thought you saw him do something antag-y) but if that was literally their objective, "Murder everybody" then I'd be fine with that kind of round. Otherwise I would seriously get turned off and go do something else.

 

[NTSAM]

 

Oh, and, no one likes being randomly murdered upon round-join because "lol traitor rekt." No one. Unless you're one masochistic dude, in which case you'll enjoy being chopped up by a chainsaw within your first step onto the station.

 

I think 6's removal would cause a sudden rise in shitcurity as well, as doing anything slightly abnormal (IE stepping into maint or accidentally forgetting to turn your sensors on) will get you in trouble somehow.

 

If it were up to me I'd actually make up more nonviolent/murderous objectives and up the chance to get "Steal x" and "Escape Alive, Without Being In Custody" goals while lowering the chance to get "Escape Alone" goals, to discourage MAIM KILL BURN traitors. You are a traitor, not a tank on legs, you shouldn't be expected to kill or maroon 50-70 people with the kind of supplies that they give one agent.

 

tl;dr rule 6 is good and should be appreciated.

 

[Allfd]

 

I think 6's removal would cause a sudden rise in shitcurity as well, as doing anything slightly abnormal (IE stepping into maint or accidentally forgetting to turn your sensors on) will get you in trouble somehow.

 

 

 

I would probably start doing just that, anyone with prints on an emag is now an enemy of the corporation.

 

Executions for everyone!

 

[Earthdivine]

 

Oh, and, no one likes being randomly murdered upon round-join because "lol traitor rekt." No one. Unless you're one masochistic dude, in which case you'll enjoy being chopped up by a chainsaw within your first step onto the station.

Arrivals always been, and will always be Camp free zone. If you see people camping it then Ahelp it as that horribly shitty to do.

 

The hallway past it is kinda free game though, it's an grey area at best.

 

[Dumbdumn5]

 

I have a strong feeling against this. It's shitty for validhunters and murderboners to be around, but it's even shittier to have both. We have good antags at the moment, so I'd really like to look into ways of getting rid of muhvalidz prior to the removal of six.

 

Rule six is intended to keep the round fun for everybody, not just an antag vs sec war or antag vs sec + validhunter war. Antags right now are very careful, and there are shortcomings to that, but when it comes to the rules, rule 6 actually has helped prevent some serious cases of greif in the past and often early round ends that would have had nothing to do with their objective. As much as it'd be fun to have free objective antags, it's abused way too much, and often times used to grief "because I can". We see this with hijack in its current state.

 

The main thing I love about rule 6 is this "If you’re selected for an antagonist role, then treat it as an interesting challenge and not an excuse to destroy other peoples’ game experience. Your actions should make the game more fun, more exciting and more enjoyable for everyone. Even or perhaps especially your victims."

 

[Fox McCloud]

I would like to point out that rule 6 is effectively not applicable of you get "hijack"---so we DO allow for "do whatever you want", it's just on a very limited basis.

[SpaceTimeNow]

Nah, i think we are already well saturated wtih people trying to grief every chance they get.