PPI Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 There is no reason for this. This is what happens, Chemists makes gibsmoke grendes, scientist makes mechs, weapons, bombs and gibsmoke grenades, and everyone else gears up for only that, and nothing else. There is currently no reason to have it, because so often, so very very often, it ends up crashing the server, or lagging it so hard it must be force restarted, or just crashing the clients of everyone. If it is allowed so they can get some frustration out, then this is not the way, run thunderdome or highlander, or anything like that. EDIT: Also, i would like to not that admins are also a HUGE part of this problem, spawning singularities, bombs and whatnot, how many times have a 255 size bomb been dropped on the shuttle? Far more often then it should, cause if it's to blow of steam, then killing everyone is a really bad way to do so. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTSAM Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 There is no reason to NOT have this. People should be able to have fun during the 60 minutes where nothing can be fucked with. And it's pretty rare for it to completely crash everything. Sure, there's a bit of lag sometimes, but that's solvable. And don'tcha think the admins would much rather be dealing with actual important stuff like a chain-griefer rather than some douche killing another for the 60 remaining seconds of the game playtime? And I thought I read somewhere from this forum that the only reason admins do the !!FUN!! stuff for endround was to shut everything up a bit. And final point, noone's going to use 60 seconds to roleplay. Rarely does anyone do that DURING the round. It'd be boring as helllllll to just walk around and do nothing. And. AND! I've said "and" too many times in this post to count, and I'm a bit happy. And final edit... You do know this has been suggested a bit, mainly by people who want to try (and fail) to roleplay with a bunch of bloodthirsty bald maniacs on an even-more cramped station/shuttle? If you even think of holding a meaningful conversation with that many people, you deserve to be caught in a bombcap splosion. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garoon Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 I'm fairly certain that this was attempted in the past, and it didn't end well. Which was why it was re-implemented Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPI Posted October 17, 2015 Author Posted October 17, 2015 im find with it, as long as its only people shooting each other, punching each other, just no singularities, gold slimes, grenades,bombs, and so on. If this can't be enforced, ban it outright. It was like that before, and it worked well. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 It is how it is because it's going to happen anyways and the admins don't have the time to adequately deal with someone "griefing" with only sixty seconds to go. There's simply too many attack logs and too much going on in that sixty seconds to even begin to keep track of everything, or bwoink people, or figure out what's even going on. The only thing removing post-round "grief" does is create a massive workload for admins, and punish a bunch of people for actions that are literally - in every sense of the word - irrelevant. What occurs post round has no bearing on anything whatsoever, it doesn't affect the round (since the round is already done) and it doesn't affect future rounds. I like to think it also casually prevents metagrudging by giving people an opportunity to let it out on someone and being bloody well done with it. Comdoms for instance get super lynched post round, and they're rarely ever talked about beyond that (Whereas I think there'd be a lot more whining if everyone had to behave that last 60 seconds). No, no, and no. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauka Usanake Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 I personally HATE the end of round grief. Sure, I did take part in it once when I was a golem and another when I tried to gold slime the ship (should've used plasma instead of blood) but- there is no but to this. I'm not going to say I'm salty about not being able to fight back. It's bad enough a feeling getting murdered on the station during the game. It's worse when you realize that it's going to happen no matter what at the end of the game. That's why I primarily go for the escape pods. Less people I'm stuck with when the shuttle lands and that's whenever the pod doors open (they don't). I might end up just ignoring the shuttles completely and stay on the station. Those minutes can be spent doing something without everyone getting in the way. Maybe that's just me though. My characters are special to me and I don't like seeing them get turned into a pulpy mess covered in their own blood. I don't want them to turn into that, even if end of round doesn't count IC. Every moment to me is one of their own. [/feels] Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevak Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Provided I don't get murdered at the end of round. I do try to do a little bit of end of round rp. I remember one time with Halogen (I think it was Halogen?) Whoever it was had a medic mech and let me hide in the sleeper for the shuttle trip. At the end. He ran the mech to the centcomm bathroom, hopped out, and after a bit of conversation, he got into one of the showers, turned it on, and curled up in a fetal position. Just was a nice bit of rp we had at the end. Was memorable. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GelatinousGlob Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 It has been tried before, people still do it. It is great stress relief for the players though too, people get really pissed at spessmans. Treat the moment the end round menu pops up that its all ooc. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeletedUser Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 This was done before. Twice in the history of the server. People still griefed even if it was banned, and half of unban appeals was about "I shuttle griff i dinnao it was a ruel pls unban", or worse, from people who were wrongfully banned in the ensuing chaos. Actually i just noticed your name. You should know best how it was because i think you were the most zealous one enforcing this rule, often banning both parties, and flooding the unban appeals section with appeals for your shuttle grief bans. Anyways, this was done before and was decided to revert it. It's just 60 seconds, if you dont like it, have a stupid meme. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Shadey pretty much covers my thoughts on this matter. It's 60 irrelevant seconds of the round that have zero bearing on ANYTHING, particularly IC. Enforcing post-round attacks is a huge issue and usually ends up delaying the round-end a lot just to deal with those 1-2 people who were attacking other people/each other. It's particularly difficult if it starts a chain reaction ,as the amount of logs it generated is absolutely astounding (by the by, logging of attacks is disabled the split second the shuttle docks with CentComm). Also, while I can understand the frustration of that one scientist blowing the ever living shit out of everyone for the 10th time in a week, this definitely doesn't occur every round and allowing people to attack each other is a huge huge pressure release valve. From an admin standpoint, it's REALLY interesting to see which players are and are not 'immune' to end of round grief--there's definitely a subset that are almost never attacked and others who are nearly always attacked. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyass Posted October 17, 2015 Posted October 17, 2015 Hey, it's called a pod and a welder, maybe metal if you want make sure noone get in for a good 5 sec. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Provided I don't get murdered at the end of round. I do try to do a little bit of end of round rp. I remember one time with Halogen (I think it was Halogen?) Whoever it was had a medic mech and let me hide in the sleeper for the shuttle trip. At the end. He ran the mech to the centcomm bathroom, hopped out, and after a bit of conversation, he got into one of the showers, turned it on, and curled up in a fetal position. Just was a nice bit of rp we had at the end. Was memorable. And then I absorbed you in the MORGUE. Also, Halogen is female. ;p Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
johannhawk Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 lets shine some light on end of round highlander, since nobody else other than the OP has talked about it in this thread. There is no reason for this.This is what happens, Chemists makes gibsmoke grendes, scientist makes mechs, weapons, bombs and gibsmoke grenades, and everyone else gears up for only that, and nothing else. There is currently no reason to have it, because so often, so very very often, it ends up crashing the server, or lagging it so hard it must be force restarted, or just crashing the clients of everyone. If it is allowed so they can get some frustration out, then this is not the way, run thunderdome or highlander, or anything like that. EDIT: Also, i would like to not that admins are also a HUGE part of this problem, spawning singularities, bombs and whatnot, how many times have a 255 size bomb been dropped on the shuttle? Far more often then it should, cause if it's to blow of steam, then killing everyone is a really bad way to do so. no wait, people are just going to dump their bombs on the floor just before the highlander starts, we could try to tweak the highlander gamemode to let highlanders revive themselves if not gibbed or decapitated... 40dmg sword + immortality vs. whatever you found during your round Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPI Posted October 18, 2015 Author Posted October 18, 2015 End of round grief is basically there to let everyone let of some steam, which is fine, but the main issue is that one or two people tend to take that away with bombs, grenades, or singularities, and this happens rarely enough, for it to be a problem that can be dealt with, even then, the main problem is when it crashes the client for people, often people use end of round scoreboard in chat to see, was that guy a griefer that should be reported, or was it legit. It does not happen that often, but the fact that it happens at all is too much. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeStylaLT Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 From an admin standpoint, it's REALLY interesting to see which players are and are not 'immune' to end of round grief--there's definitely a subset that are almost never attacked and others who are nearly always attacked. Oh, I could like, observe the attackers and the attackees, couldn't I. I, uh, totally- totally do that, yes. Yes. On the subject, end-of-round grief has been gone back-and-forth about in the server, as some may remember. What I remember about the no-grief days is the fact that there were a lot more bans because of this arbitrary rule that was seemingly suddenly imposed upon the community, another thing I remember is those 60 RolePlay seconds giving you literally nothing of value at all, so personally I would rather just see them enact chaos then walk silently to the bar and stand there for a bit until the round ends. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 the main problem is when it crashes the client for people, often people use end of round scoreboard in chat to see, was that guy a griefer that should be reported, or was it legit. It does not happen that often, but the fact that it happens at all is too much. I fucking hate it. I want to see all the antags I've failed to catch as captain/security/AI/validhunting NT Rep so I can be better suited to catch them in the future. A BYOND-crashing bomb basically impacts my learning experience. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veganzombeh Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 It's 60 irrelevant seconds of the round that have zero bearing on ANYTHING, particularly IC. I realize banning end-of-round grief isn't at all feasible, but I don't think this statement is entirely true. Some jobs, particularly scientists and chemists, can have massively overpowered weapons (grenades, bombs, mechs, etc) made solely for the purpose of murdering people during that 60 seconds. These weapons can have a potentially huge impact on the round if, for example, an antag is discovered before the shuttle arrives. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumiluntti Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 I have no interest partaking in that rapid fire spam ban marathon that this would generate. Unban forum would be full of "i punts guy and did't know was aginst ruls" Metric fuckloads of additional work that is extra super pain in the butt to potentially prevent a 30second bomb-freeze every month and protect the quality RP that the normal 60 second respawn timer provides. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 the main problem is when it crashes the client for people, often people use end of round scoreboard in chat to see, was that guy a griefer that should be reported, or was it legit. It does not happen that often, but the fact that it happens at all is too much. I fucking hate it. I want to see all the antags I've failed to catch as captain/security/AI/validhunting NT Rep so I can be better suited to catch them in the future. A BYOND-crashing bomb basically impacts my learning experience. I sincerely hope this is satire. If it isn't, it amounts to "I want to look at who was antag that round, so I know who to metagrudge." Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanov Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Look at it from the point of view from an end round griefer. That first time he blows up the shuttle without any repercussions he'll have that massive childish grin on his face and laugh his ass off. The 5th time it's not even remotely funny anymore. This counts for virtually any act. It stops being funny, and therefor the amount of effort put into end round griefing becomes less and less attractive. Yes, you'll have people reaching for crowbars and fire extinguishers, but they are usually robusted quite easily. That's my opinion any way. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 If it isn't, it amounts to "I want to look at who was antag that round, so I know who to metagrudge." I never metagrudge. I have no reason to. I want to know if I missed any signs, if I was too lenient on some people, I want to know where the holes in my cognition are and what were the false positives that round. It's self-improvement, a learning process. How can you learn on mistakes if you don't know your mistakes? How do you match certain behaviours with antags? How can you know for sure? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 I don't really consider an antag getting a victory as a mistake. There's in fact very few things I consider to be a mistake given the length of rounds and the fact that this isn't a "persistent" server. It's not really the job of anyone on station to definitively deny antagonists greentext possibilities if they aren't outright violent/obvious. Anyways, very seldom does BYOND actually crash at round end. Typically I only ever crash when Narnar gets summoned and I'm right there. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-42809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpussycat Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 You lock 50 people in a metal box for two hours and you DON'T expect them to want to absolutely slaughter one another by the end of it? Geeeez. I vote that end-round grief actually be LONGER than 60 seconds, sometimes that simply isn't enough for me to unpack all of my rage :3 Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-43225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyass Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 simply isn't enough for me to unpack all of my rage :3 * Summons the BANHAMMER * Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-43226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbdumn5 Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 simply isn't enough for me to unpack all of my rage :3 * Summons the BANHAMMER * Hmm? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/5695-remove-end-of-round-grief/#findComment-43229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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