Engineering Remap & Rework

[Deanthelis]

 

During my rather significant period of absence, I had a fair amount of time to mull over some things that I liked and disliked in SS13, usually while in a waiting room for one thing or another. The thing that stuck with me the most, and that I have thought about the most, was Engineering - not the mechanics of how power is generated, or how much power is generated, or what-have-you, but the workflow and process of how Engineering runs.

 

At the moment, the typical shift with a CE, a couple Engineers, and maybe an atmostech or maybe not (their relevance has become shockingly minimal thanks to LINDA), generally goes as follows:

-Everyone gears up. Gloves, multitools, and usually a hardsuit.

-The Singularity engine is set up. Or, to be more precise, it's safely activated - there's not a whole lot of actual construction or engineering going on, it's a simplistic, rote procedure that goes nearly identically every round. All of the machinery is already in place, it's just a matter of turning everything on in the right order and shoving plasma tanks into the radiation collectors.

-Everyone proceeds to wander off and do whatever they feel like doing, and since setup took at most twenty minutes, unless the player joined in with a project in mind (Turbine, disposals funride, etc), there tends to be a whole lot of sitting around and waiting for something to be broken or for someone to call for you.

 

I don't really have an issue with the third part of that. Engineers are usually a reactive force on the station, like Security - what is not broken cannot be fixed, after all, only improved upon at most. However, I do have an issue with it being the largest portion of the department's time spent, and while I will not claim that EVERY engineer does this, it's generally typical, as far as I can tell, and has been for a very, very long time.

 

What bothers me is the complete lack of, well. Engineering. That happens in Engineering. That is to say, there's basically no room for creativity, ingenuity, or innovation, despite Engineering possessing all of the tools to apply those things. You get one option for an engine, and if you don't use it, you hook up the solars, and while the solars work fine, they're also just as rote and boring. Atmostechs have been arguing and experimenting amongst themselves for literal years now about what the best, coolest, most fun, etc. way to set up Atmos is; why shouldn't Engineers be able to do the same on some level?

 

Now, those who know me fairly well are probably aware that I tend to frown upon presenting a problem without proposing a solution to it, or at least having some idea of what a solution might be. I consider it whining, and nobody likes whining. To prove that I am, in fact, not whining with this post, I will therefore present a solution, one that I think is fair and might be helpful for more problems than just the one I've presented (though, I suppose, some might not consider it a problem; in that case, you can safely ignore the rest of this thread).

 

I propose the following changes be made, and as they are entirely mapping changes, I am entirely willing to do all of the work myself. I will happily place every tile, pipe, APC and so forth to make this happen, but I won't do anything if this doesn't get any support from the community.

 

-Expand Secure Storage's total floor space, and place everything that is currently in the Singularity Containment area into it.

-Move the Radiation Collectors into Secure Storage.

-Add a Supermatter Crystal crate, a crate containing four sets of basic Turbine equipment (Boards, some Metal, wires, internal components, etc), and other objects that are convenient for engine setup (extra Plasteel, some Plasma glass, etc) into Secure Storage.

-Double the amount of power in the SMES at roundstart. Currently, they'll last 15 to 25 minutes, depending on how many departments are staffed and how much power they're pulling. 30 minutes is enough to last for about a quarter of most rounds, since most rounds end in either a very late emergency shuttle or a crew transfer shuttle. Meteor rounds no longer require Engineering to risk setting up the singularity and having it be bombarded to hell and ruined, obliterating the station. Low-population rounds are less at risk of running out of power, as this is intended to give the station enough power to last long enough for one moderately competent person to at the very least set up the solars before it all runs dry.

-Fill in the Singularity Containment area with floors and air, relabel it the 'Engine Room'.

-Remove the little room that currently houses the Particle Accelerator. If the Engineers want the PA to be in a secure spot, they should probably do the securing in a way they see fit, and that little room is totally unnecessary for Turbine and Supermatter setups.

-Add three blast door airlock setups to the aft side of the engine room, in the wall that borders space. These are for setups that involve dumping a gas into space safely - they'd work like the blast doors in the Incinerator.

-Add in some walls and airlocks to separate the SMES room from the engineering lockers, CE's office, Engine Room and the room outside Secure Storage; the layout would change, but the total dimensions of the Engineering department wouldn't. Just some organizational rearrangement to help keep things as secure as they are now.

-Add a pipe that goes from the Engine Room into Atmospherics, but connects to nothing but an unattached pump, on both ends. Clever Engineers and Atmostechs could hook the engine's atmospheric concerns (For the SM and Turbines, anyway) into the main Atmospherics section, which would probably be handy for giving that gigantic tank full of gaseous plasma a usage besides grief and Escape Alone Traitor/Malf AI flooding.

 

The general idea is to adjust the general activities of Engineering to the following:

-The shift starts. The CE, or the Engineers all together, decide amongst themselves what Engine to run, if any.

-The Engineers and Atmostechs gear up. Gloves, hardsuits (if necessary at all), etc.

-Engineers start hauling equipment and material into the Engine Room, while the Atmostechs engage in the Great Pipening and do whatever they need to do so the various engines will run both efficiently and long enough for the station to have power for the whole shift.

-Construction occurs for, ideally, around a half hour to forty minutes, during which various antags will have opportunities to attempt to complete their objectives, interrupt the construction process, etc. as their objectives see fit. This provides an interesting and much larger set of Ways Things Can Go Wrong, which is a large part of SS13's FUN, and makes the Engine an actual, valid target for antags to sabotage without worrying about getting bwoinked (even the singulo could be sabotaged at this stage, since the engineers would still be arranging field generators, emitters, etc.).

-The engine setup is complete, and the engineers now only have to operate at a maintenance level of operation, giving them more freedom to fix whatever was blown up, broken, melted, hulk-punched, EMP'ed, emagged, or any of the other wonderful ways the station almost inevitably gets ruined in the half to three-quarters of an hour they were busy. High-population rounds can afford to spare engineers from the setup process prior to engine completion - and should, since more players means more things break - but, conversely, low-pop rounds can't afford to spare anyone from the engine, but fewer players mean fewer explosions and fires, and if push comes to shove in any round at all, the solars can be set up by one Engineer (who probably drew the short straw) while the rest scramble to fix everything as quickly as they can.

 

Before anyone mentions this or starts it again: Yes. I am aware that the debate of which engine is better or should be on the station is positively ancient and has been done a hundred times already. It is also irrelevant, because this change has nothing to do with the engines themselves, and it gives the players the ability to choose which engine is being used each round, instead of leaving it up to the admins. This is important, because as far as Engineering players go, nobody really fully agrees on what way a given thing should be done, and no matter what engine is pre-placed onto the map, not everyone is happy with it. This makes that whole matter moot by adding player agency - an absolutely vital part of any game in a style similar to SS13 - and, most importantly, gives Engineering, traitors or loyalists alike, the opportunity to choose how much time they want to expend each round setting up power generation or on other things, which is a key factor in how Paradise balances its game mechanics. Knowledge, skill, and time are the factors that most (but not all, I'm looking at you, Genetics and Virology) of the game centers around when deciding how powerful a given feature is or should be, and Engineering should be the same way.

 

I will repeat myself only once: I am willing to do all of the work required to make these changes. I am also entirely open to critical feedback, especially negative feedback, so long as it is constructive. If it amounts to insults, is brutally misinformed or ignores what I have already said, or doesn't propose even a vague idea of a solution for any problem pointed out, I will ignore it.

 

[Professor Cupcake]

+1 to this, partly because I want to try out the other engines I've heard about, and also because I completely agree with your first point: Engineering rarely ever seems to do any engineering beyond renovating the Assembly Line because we're all bored.

[Earthdivine]

There's also the Construction Sat to the right of the Engineering Outpost, however the sheer effort to get anything over there makes things not worth making over there, even with the use of the Hand Teleporter.

[pinatacolada]

YES PLEASE

[Professor Cupcake]

 

There's also the Construction Sat to the right of the Engineering Outpost, however the sheer effort to get anything over there makes things not worth making over there, even with the use of the Hand Teleporter.

 

There's an engineering outpost?!

 

[scrubmcnoob]

Definitely be an improvement to Engineering.

[Keroman]

 

Cupcake if you go port (left) of the engineering department into the tunnels by secure tech storage there's a shuttle you can call (like the mining or research station shuttles) which takes you to the engineering satellite.

 

There's some extra equipment in there including a few spare hardsuits, an EVA suit, a really nice stock of metal and glass, food and drink vendors, a tool vendor and engivend, a maintenance drone fabricator, a little sleeping and kitchen area, and some additional equipment similar to what's in secure tech storage. Lights, heaters, air scrubbers, stuff like that.

 

[orelbon]

Yes pleas engineering is so bland, we barely have anything to do. Also i would love to help you map if you chose to start on it.

[PromethTK11]

i want this so much

[davidchan]

+1 For making engineering a fun job again and not just a routine checklist. Would also approve of random events (or not so random accidents) of the power and atmos grid requiring periodic maintenance as stuff breaks down. Ya ya ya, more work, but maybe giving Engineers more than 5 minutes worth of work would mean they wouldn't go SSD if they weren't antag.

[Deanthelis]

 

While I agree, random events are outside the scope of this thread and the PR that will eventually follow.

 

It should be noted, Fox is working on porting -another- engine's code, and in a tangentially related PR I may make an effort to make the TEG not godawful and worthless, so that brings the engine count to five (Singularity, Supermatter, Turbines, Tesla, Thermoelectric Generator). It should also be noted that it's definitely possible to combine the Turbines, Supermatter, and TEG; The SM spontaneously generates plasma gas while it's running, which can be fed into the Turbines to burn with Oxygen and create heated CO2, which can then be fed into one half of a TEG chamber (the other half utilizing space for rapid cooling, since the TEG runs off of heat differential, while the Turbine is based solely on total temperature).

 

But none of that is possible without what I have described going into effect. As it stands, Singuloth is the dominant engine, and the rest are novelties at best.

 

[davidchan]

Singuloth is just the easiest to work with, it's also the easiest to sabotage. The rule against releasing singulo, while sensible and shouldn't be removed, does somewhat undercut that con and Singuloth should have had it's effectiveness reduces because of this, but we've apparently decided to just remove 1 of the downsides without a kicker.

[Deanthelis]

Singuloth is easiest to work with entirely because it's already almost wholly set up and ready to go - like in the OP, there's no actual engineering involved, Engineers are technicians at best - and the rules preventing people from releasing it are one of the strongest reasons why it's stayed the dominant engine and not, say, the Supermatter in that spot.

[GelatinousGlob]

 

I agree, ive been saying engineering needs atleast a large empty room at the least. Setting up a new room in space with power and atmospherics and decent walls takes a good portion of the round and requires the CE to be onboard and not fuck around for 30 minutes while you wait for blueprints or a permit.

 

Setting up in secure storage works but it is small, not a lot of room for extra pipes and shit, and requires pulling all of that shit out of there.

 

Definitely need pipes from atmosia into engineering for setting up things like supermatter or other experiments.

 

Just having a large room with power at round start would be a 100% improvement. Atmosia could use slightly more room too.

 

I mainly main engineering and atmosia so would be happy to help plan or produce changes.

 

[Nakhi]

 

Personally I find the fact security arrests for "breaking into the assembly line" to be unfortunate. I've had several rounds when I used to play engineering and I completely restored the line and built mechs from it. Made a Durand one time, usually ripleys to assist engineering. Need to get science to help supply parts, CE to let you into tech storage for the boards, and science access for the computers, but it can be fun and rewarding to have uninterrupted restoration time with utility.

 

Otherwise I kind of like the ideas. However a pressurized engine room, if running the singularity would be difficult, unless there's a surrounding area of windows. The field DOESN'T hold air. I've learned that the hard way.

 

[Kluys]

 

I would not want to change the current process of how the engine is set up, doubeling the power in the smes units wont last long at all if you want to power the entire station and on low pop rounds this would force a single or maybe 2 or rarely 3 people to work soley on the engine for their entire shift each time.

 

Summarizing all that. I think its not a good idea to force engineers to do work.

 

HOWEVER

 

I am all for making it more possible for engineers to mess around themselves.

A CE locked crate with a super matter shard.

Extra solar or turbine equipment.

The assembly line being emptied, the wooden bars removed and just turning it into an empty unpowered room withouth obstructions so the engineers can work.

All of those things can work

 

[Deanthelis]

 

Testing locally, the Tesla engine can be set up by one person (who knows what they're doing, anyway) in about 10 minutes, 15 if you have to do a lot of extra wiring. If you account for the average american latency of 0.2s (worst case scenario, a 20% increase), and maybe +50% time to account for general incompetence, that's still under a half hour, which is hardly a whole round on any round that's meant to last a while. The only way I see this backfiring at all is in Meteor rounds, since it'd be a good deal harder to set the engine up, but that's already basically impossible to do, so I don't think it matters. I will probably find a means of making the Tesla quieter, but only while in containment, when I do this, if it isn't already done.

 

The Singularity turning the engine chamber into a vacuum isn't a big deal, mostly because the Singularity is pretty much incompatible with the rest of the engines; either you run it, or you don't. Rounds where the engies use the singularity would turn out just like they have for ages - it'd just take a little longer.

 

Frankly, if you aren't wanting to do Engineering work as an Engineer, you probably shouldn't play an Engineer, just like Medical Doctors shouldn't play Medical Doctor if they don't want to help injured people in any way.

 

I will probably be postponing starting on this at least until the major problems with Metastation are fixed, because there's practically no reason I shouldn't do both at once, and whatever I do on one, should probably be mirrored to some extent on the other.

 

[LiquidNightfury]

 

I'd pose that the power output of all engines needs to be significantly decreased. The current fact is that setting up power for a whole round is a ten minute job, and not even a difficult one. You can lose singulo once those SMES units are charged and barely have to worry about it in a lot of cases. It shouldn't be a chore but there should also be some degree of importance to actually providing a consistent power source.

 

And yeah, the assembly line and maybe the incinerator should be cleared out. Give engineers room to experiment in, not like they ever get used. "Workshop #1/#2" would be cool to have.

 

[Belario]

 

And yeah, the assembly line and maybe the incinerator should be cleared out. Give engineers room to experiment in, not like they ever get used. "Workshop #1/#2" would be cool to have.

On that note, the "practice area" above atmospherics/across from tech storage behind the office space is lucky if anyone even looks at it.

It's pretty purposeless, and could probably do with being replaced.

 

[LiquidNightfury]

 

On that note, the "practice area" above atmospherics/across from tech storage behind the office space is lucky if anyone even looks at it.

It's pretty purposeless, and could probably do with being replaced.

 

It's too small to construct anything worthwhile in. If it was three or four rows bigger on either side you could achieve some pretty cool shit, but it's too cramped to even make a janky supermatter engine.