Remove the Die a Glorious Death objective.

[FlattestGuitar]

 

I just don't see how this makes any sense, as it not only often collides with other objectives but also seems kinda silly considering you can most of the time just off yourself once you're done. Being forced to choose between life and greentext is just silly.

 

Removing it will make tatoring a bit more challenging and a bit more fun if you have a mindslave who loves you.

 

I assume all it would take is to just comment it out, so pretty easy.

 

[NTSAM]

nah

[Wilanney]

Yeah, I agree. It's kind of a stupid objective.

[KasparoVv]

 

The Syndicate gives this objective to agents they need to dispose of. Either they die this way, or they send someone after them-- atleast that's how it was fluffed out.

 

It's easy to forget. No-one considers the background to stuff that much because I suppose it becomes more irrelevant as RP levels go down

 

[Wilanney]

But these agents are not exactly loyalty to the Syndicate the way loyalty implanted crewmembers are to Nanotrasen and whatnot. They just won't receive their orders and go "well, looks like I better kill myself!". Will the Syndicate send someone after them? From a lore perspective, absolutely. However, logically speaking, these people would likely try and defect to Nanotrasen.

[NTSAM]

 

wat

 

You do know

 

Loyalty implants do nothing but give you a message saying "you feel a surge of loyalty towards nanotrasen?"

 

Whileas syndicates can brainwash people?

And make them do anything at all that they bid?

 

[Wilanney]

Is that the generally agreed upon lore? I always assumed people were deeply in debt, or their families were threatened until they did something for the Syndicate.

[NTSAM]

You'll be surprised how malleable our lore is and if that's not the case yet it's certainly able to make it so.

[Wilanney]

Well, I don't doubt that. From a purely gameplay perspective, my I still stand that by my argument that it's a stupid objective. OP makes a good point. Why should you have to choose between dying and getting the success at the end and not dying and getting a failure? If the lore is as malleable as you say, then what's to say that people aren't brainwashed to the Syndicate? I feel that would be a better solution. Not only would it make this objective unnecessary, but it would give people some wiggle room to roleplay a defector or something along those lines.

[KasparoVv]

 

But these agents are not exactly loyalty to the Syndicate the way loyalty implanted crewmembers are to Nanotrasen and whatnot. They just won't receive their orders and go "well, looks like I better kill myself!". Will the Syndicate send someone after them? From a lore perspective, absolutely. However, logically speaking, these people would likely try and defect to Nanotrasen.

 

However the objectives are still there, and likely or not, you see many people still kill themselves in the server for greentext

 

I think it's funny and should just be left as is

 

[NTSAM]

 

Not to mention it's a good "take a break" objective.

 

Most of the time you'll get something uber hard (hijack the shuttle or whatever) and you know how stressing it gets if you really wanna be successful.

 

It's a nice little stress reliever to get something short and simple like "kill this guy and then die."

 

[alexpkeaton]

 

I think it should be removed. It's not a "Die a Glorious Death" objective. It's a "Die a death" objective.

 

I could understand if this objective was saved for times admins were online and observing and they could check the greentext box themselves, traitors with the objective being asked to ahelp before going on their death jihad. But that is too little RP bonus for too much admin intervention, so that will never happen.

 

NTSAM's notion of it being a "take a break" objective is valid, though, and it certainly reframes the objective from being a "useless" one to being an "pretty annoying" one. Not being fully redeemed to me, I think that, without an RP foundation, Die a Glorious Death should be nixed.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

If you want to take a break just kill yourself and don't mind not getting greentext or just go play civie with tator turned off.

 

As for that 'glorious' part: it can't be glorious because it's going to be griefing if you just Aloha Snackbar the bridge with two toxin bombs in your backpack, so it's rarely anything spectacular, unless you try really hard to almost get caught completing your other objective.

 

Yesterday I had to steal a brain and die a glorious death, which I ahelped and got told to 'Steal the brain and space myself'. I'm willing to do a lot for greentext, but that's just too much.

 

[alexpkeaton]

Good on you for ahelping that, though, FlattestGuitar.

[FlattestGuitar]

They changed it to 'stay alive', which I did, but security stole my brain and gave it to its cloned owner while letting me go clear of charges. ;_;

[Habalabam]

The point is not merely greentexting, but also to make it entertaining and memorable, also for your opposition. This objective allows for creative play.

[Kluys]

 

I don't think the objective is going to be removed. For everyone who wants to stay alive they can just not do it, for everyone who wants to be creative its a way for them to do something cool.

 

For gits who think greentext is the most important factor in this game. Get out it isn't, fun is.

 

[Professor Cupcake]

It's encouragement to create a moment that is memorable, entertaining and with your own personal touch. It's an objective that is not just a clearcut "do this and you win", making it a much more valuable objective than any other. Sure, if you take a purely gameplay min-maxing, play-to-win focus, it's a stupid objective, but if you are taking things that way, you shouldn't be playing SS13.

[alexpkeaton]

 

For gits who think greentext is the most important factor in this game. Get out it isn't, fun is.

 

Sure, if you take a purely gameplay min-maxing, play-to-win focus, it's a stupid objective, but if you are taking things that way, you shouldn't be playing SS13.

 

Making the objectives MORE fun is the point of this suggestion, at least to me it is. Asking someone to remove themselves from the round for that "precious" greentext is typically NOT fun. And that greentext is usually gotten in one of two ways: committing suduko or in a greytiding bloodbath that ends others' rounds as well. We don't want to give such open-ended objectives that might encourage the latter, and neither of those truly create much fun.

 

Can't we be creative enough to make it fun whilst staying alive? Keeping the objective for the 5% of the people who will truly RP it is silly to me.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

If I get to choose between fun and greentext, I'll choose fun every time, but I think it would be pretty neat if fun became coincidental with greentext. That's all I want.

 

If people want to off themselves spectacularly, they can do so already. Nobody is forcing you to keep playing. I've never seen an antag actually die a glorious death rather than just sudokuing themselves with the verb just to get dat green.

 

[Belario]

 

If I get the die gloriously objective, I just try to be as gimmicky/cringey/dramatic as possible.

It's pretty much a license to be !!fun!! since you don't have to worry about getting away with it afterwards.

 

[Holyass]

with Die a glorius death and a terget to kill you can turn your self into a living bomb that can right next to your terget and boom you killed two birds with one stone :3

[Scrat]

 

with Die a glorius death and a terget to kill you can turn your self into a living bomb that can right next to your terget and boom you killed two birds with one stone :3

 

The thing about that is, the bombs USUALLY arent guaranteed to kill you and/or your target, and they can likely recover the head (and therefore brain) of your victim and clone them (by putting the brain in another body).

 

On topic, glorious death is iffy. With the chances of being caught (and forcefully restrained so you cant kill yourself) by trying something spectacular that isn't considered just grief, it really is easier to just sudoku when your greentext is within clear view. I'd personally prefer more open ended objectives (such as how Hijack offers a great deal of creativity because you can literally do anything) to binary ones.

 

[Machofish]

 

One problem with "die a glorious death" is that it often causes a -lot- of stupid, chaotic, poorly-planned and often ridiculously destructive things to happen. Things like a traitor deciding to systematically scatter c4 across the outside of the station or give the AI antimov and run off. I know the admins try to indicate that the glorious death objective isn't synonymous with "kill until killed" but it often pans out like that regardless. Especially when it comes to tracking or trying to counter traitors with 'die gloriously'. It becomes nearly impossible to discern what the 'endgame' is for a traitor rampage is when they don't have an endgame plan. It's extremely frustrating and frankly caustic to RP when you're dealing with an antag who has absolutely no self-preservation nor any concern for their own survival. I would equate it to trying to deal with a griefer in that regard.

 

On the flip side, I can understand how 'die a glorious death' could work - I've often noticed that traitors with this objective tend to be much more audacious and reckless about their objectives since they're not obsessed with getting off the station alive and preferably without enough crew awareness to spark a lynching, which can result in quite a few interesting moments on its own. I think if 'die gloriously' was replaced with something less rigid such as "Do not allow yourself to be captured alive," or more directly "Complete your objectives above all else, no matter the costs," that would encourage less absurd and paradoxical behaviour from a traitor, while still encouraging that more ruthless, bold antag activity that shakes up the round on a large scale.

 

Overall, a traitor hiding away in maint for the whole shift because of an "alive and free" objective is better than a traitor who quickly C4's themselves right after spacing their muder target's brain because of the "die gloriously" objective. What's even worse is the traitors who go on a rampage and then flat-out use the 'suicide' verb the second a pair of cuffs get on them. "Die a glorious death," ends up being re-interpreted by many as "Ruin the round for as many people as possible, then die like an irreconcilable piece of shit."

 

As for the lore, I believe that the Competing Corporations section of the wiki lists "Cybersun Industries" as possessing "unchallenged" mind-manipulation technology - it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine them abducting and mentally warping NT personnel to their whim, à la the "Ludovico Technique" from Clockwork Orange. That being said, why they'd direct their agents to kill themselves after proving their worth by completing their other objectives is entirely beyond me.

 

[Arenn]

 

-snip-

 

Yesterday I had to steal a brain and die a glorious death, which I ahelped and got told to 'Steal the brain and space myself'. I'm willing to do a lot for greentext, but that's just too much.

 

I had a round where I had to steal a brain and die. I emagged a drone, they killed my target, the psychologist, and one extra, because they were RPing. I felt bad for interrupting that, but I had a mission to do. I extracted the brain, then knowing there was literally no way out, and having the die objective anyway, I simply used my last TC to buy a minibomb and blow myself up. I didn't greentext because the brain was in my bag at the time, and it didn't count for whatever reason.