FlattestGuitar Posted December 22, 2015 Author Posted December 22, 2015 Generally the 'get dead' objective is non-compatible with the rest of the stuff you have to do. If you need to steal something there's no better way to greentext than just spacing yourself with the item in your backpack, and even then there's no guarantee you won't be found. I think antags focus way too heavily on greentext and dying being an objective only makes the issue bigger. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolzyking Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Perhaps if antags were given a bigger list of objectives, and point values for how many they complete. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Perhaps if antags were given a bigger list of objectives, and point values for how many they complete. Wow. What an idea. More flexibility, more fun, less of black and white thinking. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexpkeaton Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 Perhaps if antags were given a bigger list of objectives, and point values for how many they complete. Wow. What an idea. More flexibility, more fun, less of black and white thinking. That was my initial thought. The only problem I potentially see, and this may just be my imagination, is that something like this could end up making antags think they have a license to grief. Remember that under the current rules that you need to be able to provide at least some tenuous connection to your objectives when doing something that could potentially ruin/end someone's round. If someone got a shopping list of objectives, making those tenuous connections would be much easier. I don't want to shoot down the idea though. It's a damn good one. Some people (with all due respect) will say "Oh, this will only encourage the powergaming, min-maxing, greentext seeking people. It's just a game. Deal with it ." However, that's not a reason to avoid changing a system. I do think it's a way to improve the antag system. I just think that if such a system would be implemented, the rules should be drilled in or rewritten to ensure griefing on a large scale doesn't end up being the result. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Dobbins Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 In all my experience with SS13, I have never had a steal and a "glorious death" objective. And it is a fun way to end a round- instead of just hiding in a locker in maint and then skulking onto the pod like a wuss in order to see your sweet sweet greentext, its way more fun to Banzai-charge the bridge with bombs implanted or whatever creative idea you can come up with. It is, by definition an open-ended objective- all you have to do is end up dead at the end, oh and make sure that the death is cool. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolzyking Posted December 22, 2015 Posted December 22, 2015 what I would give tators. 3 theft objectives of items belonging to heads of staff (shared among all tators this shift) 5 general item objectives ( shared among all tators this shift) 2 assassinate/protect/disfigure objectives (may share, may conflict with other tators, just rng) Survive or escape as one objective, Die or hijack as the other. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenn Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 So, encourage cooperation by making the greentext global (giving the same objective to every traitor and scoring them as a group if anyone has the item?) If I'm reading that right, its glorious as a solution to the growing problem of traitors being afraid to communicate (buy a 2tc chip that gives broadband radio reception (all channels) and a private traitor comms for just whoever has the same chip (i think it mimics the nuke ops headset chip)) I do think this is an alternative to nixing the die a glorious death thing. Instead, leave the final objective randomized per antag, and have it count if anyone holds the item they need to steal, brain they need to take, whatever. I love it the way I'm looking at it. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 So, encourage cooperation by making the greentext global (giving the same objective to every traitor and scoring them as a group if anyone has the item?) Who said that? Please read the post again. It's about getting rid of the binary greentext/failtext and replacing it with multiple objectives you can basically choose from - the more you accomplish, the more points you gather, giving you something more nuanced than the 0/1 grading system we currently have. It's as if the boss told you: "Here are the things we'd like to accomplish today; do your best, but if you stumble upon some big problems, don't sweat it - it'll be alright if you leave some tasks unfinished. Just try to do as much as you can." Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlattestGuitar Posted December 24, 2015 Author Posted December 24, 2015 Possibly add more smaller objectives to make it easier to get small point boosts. I think that could work, but it would require quite a bit of coding to pull off right. We'd also get a lot of publicity as a server if we did that. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolzyking Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Lets say one of the global small items to get is a jetpack, it would reward you for each jetpack obtained. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidchan Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Eh, I'd rather not go to RP/Open objective traitors. Aurora had those and stuff got snowflakey real fast when obvious tators got caught and then started freaking out in looc/forums that who ever caught them was meta/powergaming. If you're a traitor and your objectives are boring/not something your interested in, you can always try praying or ahelping to get a new set of objectives. Your mileage may vary but expect something rather silly if you do get an admin to play along. Otherwise just ignore them. It's not like green or red text gets tracked or gives you karma. Greentexting traitors rarely get karma unless they do something spectacular with their time in my experience. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
johannhawk Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Im going to have to agree with all of these quotes. Also, the thread has slightly derailed from the glorious death objective in particular. Perhaps if antags were given a bigger list of objectives, and point values for how many they complete. Wow. What an idea. More flexibility, more fun, less of black and white thinking. That was my initial thought. The only problem I potentially see, and this may just be my imagination, is that something like this could end up making antags think they have a license to grief. Remember that under the current rules that you need to be able to provide at least some tenuous connection to your objectives when doing something that could potentially ruin/end someone's round. If someone got a shopping list of objectives, making those tenuous connections would be much easier. I don't want to shoot down the idea though. It's a damn good one. Some people (with all due respect) will say "Oh, this will only encourage the powergaming, min-maxing, greentext seeking people. It's just a game. Deal with it ." However, that's not a reason to avoid changing a system. I do think it's a way to improve the antag system. I just think that if such a system would be implemented, the rules should be drilled in or rewritten to ensure griefing on a large scale doesn't end up being the result. So, encourage cooperation by making the greentext global (giving the same objective to every traitor and scoring them as a group if anyone has the item?) Who said that? Please read the post again. It's about getting rid of the binary greentext/failtext and replacing it with multiple objectives you can basically choose from - the more you accomplish, the more points you gather, giving you something more nuanced than the 0/1 grading system we currently have. It's as if the boss told you: "Here are the things we'd like to accomplish today; do your best, but if you stumble upon some big problems, don't sweat it - it'll be alright if you leave some tasks unfinished. Just try to do as much as you can." Possibly add more smaller objectives to make it easier to get small point boosts.I think that could work, but it would require quite a bit of coding to pull off right. We'd also get a lot of publicity as a server if we did that. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kluys Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Can't we be creative enough to make it fun whilst staying alive? Keeping the objective for the 5% of the people who will truly RP it is silly to me. You know heres the thing, if you want to stay alive, you can. You will just fail the objective. Like I said, don't care about the greentext. I have seen people do some pretty creative stuff with their deaths. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubmcnoob Posted December 25, 2015 Posted December 25, 2015 I honestly don't have a problem with this objective. I don't get any more enjoyment out of the game after completing my objectives and just waiting to sit on the shuttle to Centcomm, then slaughter like two people with my cool snowflake antag weapons before being Greytided. Instead, I can now look for an interesting way to kill myself for the amusement of myself and others. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6229-remove-the-die-a-glorious-death-objective/page/2/#findComment-49382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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