Blueshield shouldn't have that revolver

[Coldflame]

 

Perhaps as an alternative to the nerf, the detective could be armed with stun shells (not sure if those are currently a thing in para code though), with BS keeping rubbers? The detective could still get rubber from cargo but they'd either need authorisation or to go behind sec's back.

 

As I understand it, the issue people are mostly complaining about is the detective, with the blueshield in the crossfire of the nerf.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

  Nakhi said:

I actually have to agree with Flat up here for once.

I thought we had something, Nakhi....

  Nakhi said:

I think the Blueshield is fine, and people are making an issue of something that really isn't that major.

I think it's more of a need for new features. Everyone wants a new thing to pew pew with from time to time.

 

 

 

  Coldflame said:

stun shells

The taser is better than the stun shells and they're for shotties, not revolvers. The basic idea is not getting blood spilled and shooting only in self defence as the D.

 

[Coldflame]

 

  FlattestGuitar said:

  Nakhi said:

I actually have to agree with Flat up here for once.

I thought we had something, Nakhi....

  Nakhi said:

I think the Blueshield is fine, and people are making an issue of something that really isn't that major.

I think it's more of a need for new features. Everyone wants a new thing to pew pew with from time to time.

 

 

 

  Coldflame said:

stun shells

The taser is better than the stun shells and they're for shotties, not revolvers. The basic idea is not getting blood spilled and shooting only in self defence as the D.

 

Yeah, I was referring to stun shells that'd load into a revolver, making the detective's revolver more or less a taser. The detective doesn't need a lethal option, the blueshield (arguably) does.

 

[davidchan]

 

The only way you could consider the taser to be better than stun shells is if you're going off reload times, which even then that's debatable since you can carry a box or two of stun shells and reload in the field, a taser needs a recharger. Otherwise the two function identically.

 

The Merge has already gone through on the github, Revolver does 5 damage now and deals 60 stamina damage. So giving the BS a revolver that does 15 damage would require the pull to be redacted or giving the BS a new weapon type all together.

 

But I never had a problem with the Detective's Revolver to begin with, .38 ammo was expensive as is, so if Cargo is getting enough materials to give him plenty of ammo, RnD should be getting resources to give him a something better anyways. Goes down with the ERT nerf several months back, 'i ded, plz nerf' to change something that wasn't really the problem anyways and the nerf was so extreme it pushed the thing into utter non-use.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

I was thinking of the additional functionality of the disabler rounds when shooting through airlocks or windows, but in general I've only ever used it once as a detective when nukies came. There doesn't seem to be any good reason for you to use it unless there's a pretty direct threat to your life, in which case you should run the fuck away rather than fight anyway, as you have no armor or proper equipment to fight.

 

I say we just leave as it is unless someone gives us all a good reason not to.

 

[saywat_the_15th]

Just give Blue some cool ass lookin revolver which can shoot normal non-lethals and disablers on default. (maybe it could be emagged to shoot lethal laserz, and of course it would shoot lethal revolver bullets just like every revolver)

[FlattestGuitar]

 

What about xenos? Blueshield shouldn't be expected to have to run over to armory if they see a threat. That's one of the ideas behind the job.

 

Blue should have access to lethals regardless of how OP everyone thinks it would be.

 

I'm kinda thinking about a reskinned stun revolver that works like the HoSgun. That would be damn cool...

 

[Plotron]

 

  Coldflame said:

As I understand it, the issue people are mostly complaining about is the detective, with the blueshield in the crossfire of the nerf.

In my eyes giving the detective 5 dmg Real Rubber loadout is a good thing, because of collateral damage and trigger practices of some newcomers. Blueshield was indeed caught in a crossfire here - that's why I made this thread. Same gun, same ammo, different purposes. You guys have raised a lot of valid points here.

  Coldflame said:

The detective doesn't need a lethal option, the blueshield (arguably) does.

  Coldflame said:

Perhaps as an alternative to the nerf, the detective could be armed with stun shells (not sure if those are currently a thing in para code though), with BS keeping rubbers? The detective could still get rubber from cargo but they'd either need authorisation or to go behind sec's back.

I think the detective could've gotten 5 dmg bullets and the Blueshield - 15 dmg bullets.

 

  Nakhi said:

Again, limited rounds (even if more can be made, good luck getting Cargo to do that)

I almost never had problems with cargo. They'd print out 3 Speedloaders at round-start (or 20 minutes in) with no complaints. Sure, it's expensive as fuck, their Autolathe gets dry very fast.

These 3 Speedloaders usually last me 'till Emergency Shuttle - and even then I've got enough to win some post-round grief fights. It's such a non-issue that I made it my regular routine to order 3x Speedloader from Cargo every time I join.

Since late-joining Plasmamen do not get their tazer, I have (or had) to use the revolver quite often.

 

  FlattestGuitar said:

I think it's more of a need for new features. Everyone wants a new thing to pew pew with from time to time.

This thread was inspired by Dave saying that BS shouldn't really have a revolver. I turned to this forum for suggestions and ideas.

 

  FlattestGuitar said:

What about xenos? Blueshield shouldn't be expected to have to run over to armory if they see a threat. That's one of the ideas behind the job.

 

My Blueshield experience tells me that revolvers are rather weak against xenos. Especially with that insta-stun friendly fire.

I also think that the Blueshield should be prepared for (mostly) everything at round-start. When a head needs help, you don't have time (or business, quite often) to run to Armory for mission-specific equipment.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

One thing I'd like to point out/keep you guys updated on:

 

The revolver's damage has been nerfed--it used to do 15 damage and 50 stamina damage (with its weaken of 3); it now does 5 damage, 60 stamina damage and has a weaken of 3.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

As there's some discrepancy on opinions (with the opinions here seeming to be quite negative, while those on the PR are positive): https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/3157

 

I'd like to hear from Blueshield players, specifically on this one; there's a lot of input from people on the Git who, as far as I know, don't play BS at all.

 

[Plotron]

 

  FlattestGuitar said:

There doesn't seem to be any good reason for you to use it unless there's a pretty direct threat to your life, in which case you should run the fuck away rather than fight anyway, as you have no armor or proper equipment to fight.

 

The tazer has limited range. The revolver is very good for gunning down runaways.

I tend to use the revolver in more serious cases or when it's ultimately a matter of letting the antag/criminal flee or not.

 

[DayZ Me Trolling]

 

Right, since I've been essentially been playing almost nothing but Blueshield since I've unlocked him, I'd like to add my input as said "Blueshield player."

Personally believe that the revolver, or a similar /ballistic/ firearm is the perfect less-than lethal option for a Blueshield, and I'll list up a few of the reasons now:

 

 

• No limited range like a tazer, making it a lot more useful if you're chasing that has grabbed a VIP, and they decide to run down a long hallway of sorts, possibly ahead of tazer range. It also seems like the projectiles fly a little faster than a tazer, another bonus.

 

 

 

• Cannot be deflected by e-swords and e-shields that Ops would usually be equipped with, thus giving the Blueshield an actual chance to evacuate a VIP from near proximity of Ops.

 

 

 

• Option to fire a few more shots in attempts to deal enough damage to disable someone, i,e: broken leg. This would be especially useful if trying to get away from a greater number of threats.[/list

   

   

  • Faster fire rate, at least from what I understand, thus making it a better weapon to use against NPC's charging up against you or a VIP.

 

 

These are a few of the benefits of a ballistic based weapon that come off the tip of my head, of course ballistic weapons are not the all-working god guns, they have pro's and con's, I just believe the pro's are the right pro's for a Blueshield. However if we cannot make the Blueshield's bullets be more effective than the Detective's we could always switch from the current revolver to something else, possible a M1911-ish gun that actually fires kinetic projectiles instead of that pulse variant.

 

[HereticChurch]

I played Blueshield a shitton when I first got it, and its one of my more common roles when I play nowadays. I like having the revolver around, and I wouldn't really complain about the overpoweredness of the revolver, as I never really used it as a proper weapon for combat, and more a stunning tool. I just feel the revolver is more fitting for the detective in it's role than the Blueshield, and something more unique for the Blueshield is what I kinda want. The fancy advanced taser revolver up in one of the new PRs is really neat and unique, which I like. I would have been fine with them getting their old shotgun back, since that really set them up as a bulkier bodyguard, but I just want something unique to set them apart from normal security.

[Shadeykins]

 

As the blueshield already gets a tazer, the tazer aspect of the revolver is a bit moot.

 

I'm still heavily in favour of the Blueshield having something ballistic or something clear that sets them apart.

 

Even with the laser revolver, they basically have the same combat capability as the Head of Personnel.

 

I think they need something that's not a laser.

 

Why not ditch the revolver and go for something like an officer's sidearm?

 

A pistol that shoots rubbers for instance, 8 bullets per magazine that deals ten damage. This actually lowers the effective damage down to 80 (from 90), and still makes them stand out.

 

It's a karma role, and people have spent well-earned karma on it.

 

It's also someone who's sent from Central Command, and therefore should well - have something that makes them stand out?

 

The NT Rep has their cane, the Blueshield has (or had) their revolver.

 

While there is the argument that the Blueshield was never meant to have it, it was well-suited, they had it for over a year and it worked - it still worked. A serious alternative that isn't just "pewpew lazer" needs to be put in, one that is honestly on-par with what the Blueshield had not too long ago.

 

[Plotron]

 

  Shadeykins said:

A pistol that shoots rubbers for instance, 8 bullets per magazine that deals ten damage. This actually lowers the effective damage down to 80 (from 90), and still makes them stand out.

 

Yep. 10 damage is pretty damn fine for an 8-shooter, as long as it can shoot as fast as the revolver.

 

  Shadeykins said:

As the blueshield already gets a tazer, the tazer aspect of the revolver is a bit moot.

 

The revolver is the superior 1 v 1 weapon. It's far more reliable in the 'tazing' aspect. If you value your life, you use it. A fancy panic button. Unless you're talking about the new laser/tazer pistol hybrid that's being discussed in that PR... well, then yeah, the point is moot, as it's functionally the same. The new energy pistol would replace both the tazer and the revolver.

 

[davidchan]

 

I have to agree, the blue shield should have a ballistic weapon, they already get a taser so electrodes and disabler beams are in their arsenal already, the shining aspect of the revolver was that you needed something like a riotshield to block it. eshields did nothing and I've managed to counter two seperate nuke op round by shooting the closest two or three nukes in the leg before dragging the captain and dashing into the nearest crowd of greytides.

 

Giving them a laser weapon just feels wrong, since you'd basically just be a reskin of the head of security combat wise. Blueshield should hinder, not kill, but maiming an acceptionally dangerous foe should be an option, such as a hostile wizard.

 

Removing the taser and revolver for an all in one weapon sounds horrible, as it would be a huge nerf if it only had 6-8 shot capacity, and would be ludicrously over powered if it had double capacity or recharged like the Captains side arm. A Desert Eagle or similar sidearm with rubber orsome similiar less lethal ammo would be preferred as ammo based guns require their shots to count, not simply retreat to the moveable charger station.

 

[Nakhi]

Here's what I am thinking, if people think the Blueshield should have a "unique" ballistic option: I recall the Colt .45 code being tossed around and possibly implemented. Why not give the Blueshield the Colt, leaving the revolver with the detective? The Colt at least would have ability to use different types of ammunition (i.e. rubber or lethals) without the possibility of failure like the .357 revolver modification. It gives the flexibility in armament, I think, since it's not innately lethal and still gets the job done.

[FlattestGuitar]

Nakhi has a good idea there. I'd be down for the Colt.

[HereticChurch]

I like the idea of giving them a unique ballistic like a Colt or M1911 or something like that, with the option to get rubbers or lethals for it. I do like the fancy new advanced stun revolver as well though, and I'm not sure if the Blueshield should get both.

[saywat_the_15th]

Colt sounds nice, +1

[DayZ Me Trolling]

The Colt or a M1911 get a 1+ from me!

[Plotron]

 

TheDZD, Fox and Dave say that if we were to replace the revolver, it'd be best to replace it with an energy gun, not an advanced stun revolver.

  TheDZD said:

I have no issues with this being merged, although I honestly think it would have been fine to just replace the revolver with an energy gun.

  DaveTheHeadCrab said:

@TheDZD

I wholeheartedly agree. But I guarantee you I would never hear the end of it from BS players if I tried that.

  Fox-McCloud said:

I have no issues with this being merged, although I honestly think it would have been fine to just replace the revolver with an energy gun.

I'm sticking with the Advanced Stun Revolver. How about you, guys?

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

Just give them either an M1911 that can chamber rubber and lethals or give them a HOSgun that looks like a revolver. Done. Solved. GG

Now let's get off our asses and get to some kind of a conclusion with this thread, it's been going for far too long.

 

Here's a strawpoll. Pick everything you're okay with.

 

[Belario]

 

The BS having a special gun is fine and all, but it'd be nice if they didn't have immediate access to infini-lethal ammo for it.

As it is, they can just wander into R&D/cargo and blow all their metal on bullets, this is done almost always without any sort of asking.

 

#RemoveBlueShieldCargoAccess2569.

 

[DayZ Me Trolling]

 

  Belario said:

The BS having a special gun is fine and all, but it'd be nice if they didn't have immediate access to infini-lethal ammo for it.

As it is, they can just wander into R&D/cargo and blow all their metal on bullets, this is done almost always without any sort of asking.

 

#RemoveBlueShieldCargoAccess2569.

 

Blueshield doesn't even get cargo access by default.