Balance out Science Department.

[Dinarzad]

 

Because the department that can do almost anything, at any time, without ever having to talk or cooperate with anyone outside their department, needs to be reigned in.

 

Let's take a brief over view of the Research Department and what it does and does not have going for it. Basically, let's look at WHY it's a problem.

 

In theory, science is meant to be sort of gated by Mining and Time/Effort. They need Miners to do their job, so they can make the fancy mechs and the bitchin' toys. and when Research makes bitchin toys, everybody tends to prosper in someway. Gygax/Durands and super guns an shit for Security, Odysseus and upgraded machines for Medical along with better surgical tools, Engineering (Sometimes) gets a Firefighter model Ripley mech.

And they need time/effort to get RnD done, to get those super powers (Genetics is half in and half out of Research dept. after all)

Science can make everyone else's day just that much better when they do their thing and when people help them help you.

 

The problem: Science doesn't need any of that at all right now.

This is because of the old Xeno-archeology outpost. Why? Because it has space worthy suits just fuckin laying there, along side ore satchels and pick-axes.

Science, with what they have to start with, can even easily make mining drills and mesons. 'S not hard. You get drills, you get to the outpost, snag some mineral satchels and get to work. They can build themselves an ore reclaimer and print out everything they need without even GLANCING at Cargo.

Which also means that 'Time and effort' to doing RnD is completely null and void. They can effectively hit max Research within 15 minutes or less, and there's been a series of tools/guides/lists on maxing RnD and a lot of Scientists make it a competition to get there and set a record (Hell, I took my time one round and everyone was MAD I didn't have it maxed in 20 minutes.)

 

This means, Science can hit full potential, on their own and all within their own department like NO ONE else can. There is no other department capable of this, Medical cannot upgrade all their own machines or make themselves better tools, Cargo can't order Ready-made RIPLY mechs, Sec can't just wish a Durand into existance or get X-ray lasers or anything.

If Medbay is lacking any chemists and there's no CMO to pitch in, what do you do?

You fucking live with it, or you get the HoP to give you access. (Or I guess break in a window.)

If Research is totally empty and you need to upgrade the Sleepers... well. Again. Live with it or get access from the HoP.

 

This becomes a -massive problem- when Science is the subject of being an antag, or they go on a valid hunt crusade. If Shadowlings convert science, well... what do you do? They have an immense number of tools that have minimal responses with. Even an ERT can struggle against them. And let's not even START on Nations... (Mostly cuz it isn't done yet lel)

 

This is a problem. No one in this game has that much power, even Cyborgs who get tools for days and a lot of power, but take massive hits to their free will and an assortment of other vulnerabilities are not allowed to just 'replace their department'.

 

TL;DR: Science should NOT be able to mine their own minerals. That is HUGE portion of the problem right there. What should be their throttle point from keepign them from just flying off the rails as a runaway train, has effectively been removed. The Mining supplies form Xeno arch need to poof until whatever day comes that brings it back, and drills/sonic hammers should probably be cargo/mining locked boxed.

 

[Tauka Usanake]

Can I just bring back my suggestion to nuke the Science Outpost until Xeno-arch is back in? I'd try my hand at it but I don't believe I'd make it look good

[ProperPants]

 

until Xeno-arch is back in

Maybe I'm talking out of my ass because I've never done Xeno Archaeology, but as someone who plays almost exclusively scientist, I'd love to see a satellite area dedicated to wild-ass experiments. Something like the Test Lab, but bigger and cooler. I can't really elaborate since this is just a concept I'd like to see, but this could solve the mining problem by making my hypothetical area a satellite like how Engineering has, and not an asteroid outpost.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

Could stick the scichem lab into the research outpost.

Now nerds blow it up, and not the station.

And it'll take a bit longer to make those SUPER COOLZ DEATH CHEMZ.

 

[Da Dman234]

 

This becomes a -massive problem- when Science is the subject of being an antag, or they go on a valid hunt crusade. If Shadowlings convert science, well... what do you do? They have an immense number of tools that have minimal responses with. Even an ERT can struggle against them. And let's not even START on Nations... (Mostly cuz it isn't done yet lel)

 

This is a problem. No one in this game has that much power, even Cyborgs who get tools for days and a lot of power, but take massive hits to their free will and an assortment of other vulnerabilities are not allowed to just 'replace their department'.

This is entirely untrue, while science is the strongest department any good sec officer has more than enough equipment to take them down easily (Instastun FTW). Got a meth head? Combining a taser and flash/pepperspray can easily take them down. Also half of the items I'm sure you consider to be overpowered are lockboxed and require an EMag or high level ID to open (EMPs have no effects on lockboxes), and if they already have high level ID's you have a much larger problem than science being converted. Chem/Toxins bombs are also heavily restricted OOCly and are almost never used unless you have to escape alone.

 

 

TL;DR: Science should NOT be able to mine their own minerals. That is HUGE portion of the problem right there. What should be their throttle point from keepign them from just flying off the rails as a runaway train, has effectively been removed. The Mining supplies form Xeno arch need to poof until whatever day comes that brings it back, and drills/sonic hammers should probably be cargo/mining locked boxed.

That being said, this is a completely reasonable suggestion. While some mining supplies are required, get rid of the mining satchels. They're useless to xenoarc since most of the time you'll be placing small artifacts in your bag. Along with this lock up the Ore Boxes/Mining scanners well and it's a potentially easy fix to the problem.

 

Could stick the scichem lab into the research outpost.

Now nerds blow it up, and not the station.

And it'll take a bit longer to make those SUPER COOLZ DEATH CHEMZ.

While I'm not sure it'll really effect the mixing of SUPER COOLZ DEATH CHEMZ in any way other than making it easier since they're away from prying eyes. This isn't a bad suggestion either, since the current Test Lab is a joke and a lot of people testing Chem bombs require an accessible, pressurized area, and I'm getting quite sick of science being blow up for "tests"...

 

[LightFire53]

 

I agree that science is can be too powerful, but let us not forget that lore wise, the station focuses on science. I agree with taking out mining ability for science, because as pointed out, it can easily make cargo null and void.

 

That being said, even if some of the science department was shunted down into the outpost, it could be more balanced. Xenobio realistically shouldn't be able to breed potentially violent monsters on the station when a perfectly viable option is much safer. Same with toxins and science chem. E.X.P.E.R.I.-Mentor could also probably use a reworking/buff. It is useless unless you want machines that go pop and produce junk and/or corgis.

 

 

[MrFinnT]

 

adding a point of roleplaying

a scientist is not a hard worker. why would a scientist, who studied half his/her lifetime go into the dirt and mine. thats really bad Roleplay! sure this is medium to light roleplay, but would you consider it ok for a chemist to perform any kind of surgery?

or the warden to do detective work?

 

[isaac]

 

I agree that science is can be too powerful, but let us not forget that lore wise, the station focuses on science. I agree with taking out mining ability for science, because as pointed out, it can easily make cargo null and void.

 

That being said, even if some of the science department was shunted down into the outpost, it could be more balanced. Xenobio realistically shouldn't be able to breed potentially violent monsters on the station when a perfectly viable option is much safer. Same with toxins and science chem. E.X.P.E.R.I.-Mentor could also probably use a reworking/buff. It is useless unless you want machines that go pop and produce junk and/or corgis.

 

 

Yeah relocate the dangerous stuff like toxxins and xenobio to SCI sat that would make it less of the antag community center and the bookclubs library