Crazylemon Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Since much of the cloning process involves whether the brain is present or not, I was wondering if the cloning process should use the genetic data from the brain, in place of that of the body. Ya or na? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Since when do brains in SS13 have DNA? My main problem is with brain transplants and it involves unchangeable monkey names. I feel like it should be body's DNA anyway. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbdumn5 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Since when do brains in SS13 have DNA?My main problem is with brain transplants and it involves unchangeable monkey names. I feel like it should be body's DNA anyway. Yeah, and you can fix the name issue with a mask, ID, and a genetics machine. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Yeah, and you can fix the name issue with a mask, ID, and a genetics machine. Last time I injected someone with his own UI taken from his body post-brain transplantation his name was still messed up. At least his hair was back to normal! Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazylemon Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 All organs (limbs, hearts, brains, what have you) already store a copy of their owner's DNA datum on creation. This is used to retain a sense of genetic identity of the user, for example when doing multiple brain transplants, but reception to this idea seems lukewarm to cold, at best... Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 All organs (limbs, hearts, brains, what have you) already store a copy of their owner's DNA datum on creation. Cool. Anyway, I do not like your idea because the brain is quite a lot smaller than the body itself... Swap brains, swap minds. Why would you want to make cloning dependent on the brain's DNA? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazylemon Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 Without a brain, the cloning scanner does not function. Thus, this implies that the brain is the organ being scanned, and the source of genetic data for the cloning operation. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Without a brain, the cloning scanner does not function. It doesn't function because it lacks the data to reconfigure and manipulate neurons in the new body that is being grown in the pod. If you wanted to clone a braindead person, you'd probably come up with something like our humanized monkeys. I mean - when the DNA in the brain doesn't match the rest of the body, you've got some really hard paradox... From a gameplay perspective, though, it's the body that matters. It's the way your body looks and its own inherent defects (genetic disabilities). The brain is merely* a carrier of your consciousness - or rather - the organ that creates it. *there's more to it, of course; the brain is truly a marvelous organ! Edited January 25, 2016 by Guest Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
johannhawk Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Yeah, and you can fix the name issue with a mask, ID, and a genetics machine. Last time I injected someone with his own UI taken from his body post-brain transplantation his name was still messed up. At least his hair was back to normal! thats not how it works! its UE + SE not UI that changes the names! Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 its UE + SE not UI that changes the names! Dayum, son. One would think that your voice is Unique and comes from Unique Enzymes. So much for misleading names! Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazylemon Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 If that were the case, then why does the console lack the ability to make mindless bodies from brainless cadavers? Actually, that gives me another idea... Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 If that were the case, then why does the console lack the ability to make mindless bodies from brainless cadavers? To prevent you from unintentionally wasting resources. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightedskull Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I really don't like the idea of simply tossing a brain in the cloner and out pops the person. It is indeed all about the mental interface and going to assume that also means a connected neural network (Doctors, please fix-o-vein). Though, I'd say it'd be nice to have the option that enough of the original owners organs were inside the body ( regardless of the type or species body), including original brain, then the scanner picks up the DNA and brain network to produce a clone of the original person rather than the new body. Exceptions being slime core shoved in the hearts place and that being enough for an automatic Slime Person scan ( with slime brain). When a geneticist isn't available though, it's really annoying to be monkey ####...if a corpse is even available to copy. I've come up with a Suggestion as an alternative to genetics. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthdivine Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Could just make it an upgrade ability the cloner gets, or you can choose between the Body and Brain. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTSAM Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 or you can choose between the Body and Brain. I'm in support of this. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazylemon Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 Yeah, choosing between body and brain cloning sounds like a neato upgrade. I'm putting that on my plate, then! Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 My thoughts: Death is stupidly trivial on Paradise; with strange reagent, defibs, and the likes, you can bring just about anyone back provide their brain hasn't been deleted. On another instance: surgeon's jobs are quickly becoming irrelevant outside of bones breaking; this definitely furthers that. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazylemon Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 The rate of the cloner actually being upgraded, is relatively low, so I don't think this will put surgery out of a job... Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeykins Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 The rate of the cloner actually being upgraded, is relatively low, so I don't think this will put surgery out of a job... I don't even play science regularly, and provided mining is quick with their first shipment I can get the cloners upgraded to maximun in the first 10-12 minutes of the shift. This is another hit to traitors that makes it hilariously simple to revive a person, if you've got an assassinate objective taking the head and tucking it away somewhere/disposing of just the body is a solid way to make sure people won't clone your target (thus making you fail your objective). I'd expect to see a lot more chainsaws, gibbing, and C4 being planted on brains if this went through. It also, as Fox says trivializes surgery - cloning is already the backbone of medical and every doctor's one-stop-shop for everything. More than a few people have been intentionally killed/left to die simply because cloning them would be easier, and I'm sure some of those people are posters in the thread (no small amount of doctors already won't even defib someone if they've got more than one or two broken bones because "cloning is faster"). Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightedskull Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Whenever I play surgeon or CMO, I do everything I can to ensure that cloning is the last option for any patient and criticize anyone that goes straight for the cloner without trying the defrib. I think the cloner just needs to be fixed when it comes to identity. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 More than a few people have been intentionally killed/left to die simply because cloning them would be easier, and I'm sure some of those people are posters in the thread (no small amount of doctors already won't even defib someone if they've got more than one or two broken bones because "cloning is faster"). Cloning dead people? Yes, potentially faster, less risky, doesn't require much attention - simplifies multitasking. I'm the proponent - if many broken bones and much organ damage, clone. Of course, I'm one of the few people who tend to the patients - I'd hate to see a patient get killed by an antag twice in a row on my watch. If I have doubts, I just bring the corpse to the advanced medical scanner for quick diagnosis. Leave our surgeons alone! Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightedskull Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 You advocate for surgeons but you you prefer to clone instead of fixing all the organs and bones when too damaged? That's the fun and shouldn't take long. Much more satisfying. And lore wise, much less harmful than clone disorder. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 You advocate for surgeons but you you prefer to clone instead of fixing all the organs and bones when too damaged? That's the fun and shouldn't take long. Much more satisfying. In case you don't know, I am not a surgeon. To me cloning is more satisfying, provided that it would otherwise require surgery to fix someone after a defib. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightedskull Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 You advocate for surgeons but you you prefer to clone instead of fixing all the organs and bones when too damaged? That's the fun and shouldn't take long. Much more satisfying. In case you don't know, I am not a surgeon. To me cloning is more satisfying, provided that it would otherwise require surgery to fix someone after a defib. Lore wise : The cloning procedure has more downsize and issues. Clone Memory Disorder. Gameplay Wise : I don't believe it is faster than people tend to think it is. You gotta ensure there is enough biomass, strip the poor sod, wait for the new clone body ( at minimum 60% ), then you have to fix clone damage with the cryopod and wait for that. THEN you have to fix possible brain damage (no chemist? End up at surgery anyway), THEN you gotta fix any genetic mutations ( Chemist or Geneticist). Final step? Getting the patients their stuff back. You had to go to at most two other jobs for the same person and this is to get someone fully functional and on their own, excluding fixing any identity issues. Provided the proper procedures were done, ( having the external damages fixed first ), a surgeon can have everything fixed up in one room and finalized with a quick trip to the sleeper/cryo. Either it being brain transplant, organ repairs, bone setting, or literally putting all the limbs back on, surgery can be faster. Defribbing can come before or after the body is fixed, so long as it didn't take too long and can fight the resp damage. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plotron Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Gameplay Wise : I don't believe it is faster than people tend to think it is. Provided the proper procedures were done, ( having the external damages fixed first ), a surgeon can have everything fixed up in one room and finalized with a quick trip to the sleeper/cryo. Either it being brain transplant, organ repairs, bone setting, or literally putting all the limbs back on, surgery can be faster. Well, sometimes you lack real surgeons or they're busy, but that's an exception. It's easier to clone people because you usually don't have to babysit them or stand over them to actively fix them up. You start the cloning process, prepare the bodybag and items, you check the % every once in a while and you can help other people in the meantime. Once the actual cloning is done, you fix them up in cryo. You just make sure the patient makes it from one room to another. You turn on the auto-eject feature and check the guy from time to time. Once that's done, the rest goes smoothly - the patient can grab his items. If there's something wrong, you get a clean SE. I'm speaking from the point of view of a Geneticist - it's really no deal. I don't want to keep surgeons busy with (semi-)dead people. The machines do most of the work for you. You're not tied to one person and there's little or no risk of fucking shit up if someone were to disturb you - for instance, you can't simply walk away in the middle of a surgery. Likewise, it'd be hard to have another surgeon finish up the surgery for you. With cloning steps are clear, straightforward and flexible. Anybody can step in to finish the cloning. Is it convenient for me? Definitely. It's multitasking-friendly and that's one of the most important aspects in SS13 IMO. Multitasking. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/6532-should-cloning-work-off-of-the-brains-dna/#findComment-53290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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