Should unclonable species' NO_SCAN be enforced?

[Crazylemon]

As it stands, the unclonable organic species (vox, slimeperson) can be cloned by removing their brain, and placing it into a clonable species' body. However, we're deliberating whether to make that stipulation harsher, and making the scanner not accept the brain at all, brain scan mode or not. Ya or na?

[NTSAM]

 

I unno

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

 

My idea is that maybe after you reach a certain new upgrade level to the cloner you can do that method, but when you first start out that won't work, kinda like with linged corpses and stuff.

 

[Crazylemon]

So, move that capability to the brain-scanning mode, which will still give them the species of the body they were placed in, rather than their original species?

[Keroman]

 

It's tricky enough to bring them back as-is, especially when you have medbay staff who don't know about the brain transfer/clone new body method.

 

If we're talking about having the cloner scan the brain and recreate the body based off the brain's DNA then there's no reason they shouldn't be cloneable just like any other species (although for Vox there might need to be an extra step where the brain is surgically moved from the old body to the new one because cortical stack implant, yayaya.)

 

Slightly off-topic but one thing that bothers me when a character ends up in the body of a different species (even via Wiznerds mindswapping) they automatically understand and can speak the language of that species. Is there some way to force the game to check their original language settings and prevent those settings from changing when moving to another body? It really is a minor gripe, I know, and to make matters even more difficult the lore for Vox-pidgin states it's impossible to speak for non-Vox species, so maybe any Vox transferred into a different species' body can only understand it but not speak it?

 

I dunno. Sorry for going off-topic like that.

 

[Crazylemon]

Yeah - tracking the language on the mind might be a better fit than putting the language on the mob - the current system leaves some things to be desired...

[Shadeykins]

 

Vox/Slime People get stuffed in the morgue so often as it is that I really don't see the need to enforce No Scan.

 

Unless Vox/Slime People see some sort of respective buff in return for being absolutely non-cloneable, I don't see the point.

 

They already lose all their special abilities when cloned.

 

[Tauka Usanake]

 

I'd like to see slimepeople get some sort of resurrection with their brain/slime core similar to how gray slime extracts when injected with plasma make a new slime. That would count as a racial bonus to them with the disadvantage of not being cloneable.

 

Vox are fine as they are I think. Sure maybe it's not fair that they can't be cloned but I want to say that's the price they pay for space proof-ness and the quirk of being a birdbrain highly sophisticated avian.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

Coming from someone who plays Medbay a lot, I'm going to have to say no.

 

First off, it would mean that a lot of players would basically be stuck in a literal "GG no re" situation unless Science upgrades the cloners (flip a coin). A great many people play Vox and Slime, primarily, so removing the ability to bring them back after death, or making it even harder, is just unnecessarily unfair.

 

Secondly, the procedure to bring back one of these species is hard enough. You need:

 

 

1. A competent Surgeon;

    

2. Competent Geneticists that aren't just sitting their ass looking for Hulk;

    

Biomass in the cloner

 

 

Then you need to perform one and a half brain transplant surgeries, hope the person is still in there, drag them off to Cloning, clone them, give them all their stuff back, and make sure everyone involved knows who that person is.

 

Even with a competent Medical team, it can take upwards of 10 minutes between a dead Vox/Slime showing up in Medbay and them leaving in a humanized monkey/farwa. Compare that with the minute amount of time it takes to shove any other species in a cloner and get a perfect copy.

 

Leave it as is. It's an amazing procedure as well, and serves to break the monotony that is Surgery.

 

[johannhawk]

 

Coming from someone who plays Medbay a lot, I'm going to have to say no.

 

First off, it would mean that a lot of players would basically be stuck in a literal "GG no re" situation unless Science upgrades the cloners (flip a coin). A great many people play Vox and Slime, primarily, so removing the ability to bring them back after death, or making it even harder, is just unnecessarily unfair.

 

Secondly, the procedure to bring back one of these species is hard enough. You need:

 

 

1. A competent Surgeon;

    

2. Competent Geneticists that aren't just sitting their ass looking for Hulk;

    

Biomass in the cloner

 

 

Then you need to perform one and a half brain transplant surgeries, hope the person is still in there, drag them off to Cloning, clone them, give them all their stuff back, and make sure everyone involved knows who that person is.

 

Even with a competent Medical team, it can take upwards of 10 minutes between a dead Vox/Slime showing up in Medbay and them leaving in a humanized monkey/farwa. Compare that with the minute amount of time it takes to shove any other species in a cloner and get a perfect copy.

 

Leave it as is. It's an amazing procedure as well, and serves to break the monotony that is Surgery.

And people call me shit for NOT sitting on my ass all shift looking for hulk...like, thats boring and superpowers can get anyone screwed over...

 

[Shadeykins]

 

Coming from someone who plays Medbay a lot, I'm going to have to say no.

 

First off, it would mean that a lot of players would basically be stuck in a literal "GG no re" situation unless Science upgrades the cloners (flip a coin). A great many people play Vox and Slime, primarily, so removing the ability to bring them back after death, or making it even harder, is just unnecessarily unfair.

 

Secondly, the procedure to bring back one of these species is hard enough. You need:

 

 

1. A competent Surgeon;

    

2. Competent Geneticists that aren't just sitting their ass looking for Hulk;

    

Biomass in the cloner

 

 

Then you need to perform one and a half brain transplant surgeries, hope the person is still in there, drag them off to Cloning, clone them, give them all their stuff back, and make sure everyone involved knows who that person is.

 

Even with a competent Medical team, it can take upwards of 10 minutes between a dead Vox/Slime showing up in Medbay and them leaving in a humanized monkey/farwa. Compare that with the minute amount of time it takes to shove any other species in a cloner and get a perfect copy.

 

Leave it as is. It's an amazing procedure as well, and serves to break the monotony that is Surgery.

 

Alternatively, you just need genetics access and a circular saw.

 

Chop the heads off, and switch them around.

 

This is generally my go-to method when there's a great deal of uncloneable body pileup, and I have the initial corpse handy.

 

[Crazylemon]

Ah, so - what are your thoughts on NOT changing the requirements on the body to be scanned, but then letting the "brain scan" mode I'm adding create a body of normally unclonable species?

[Crazylemon]

Well - If I WERE to remove the ability to clone NO_SCAN species, one is still able to brain transplant to a viable body, and defib, yes? This still requires the geneticist and the surgeon - this is satisfactory, right?

[Coldflame]

'Shoud unclonable species be clonable?' is what I'm gathering from this thread. The species are not supposed to be cloned- changing this is outside the scope of a change to cloning. I'm not familiar with the specifics of playing slime, but Vox have several advantages as a race, with the only significant downside being the lack of cloning.Regardless, this is something that should be discussed with regards to the species and their balance, not with regards to the functioning of cloners. That said, the races already are regularly cloned using the monkey 'technique' so it's questionable how severe the implications actually are here.

[Crazylemon]

Sooo, I'm holding off merging this PR until I get a consensus, or people stop caring about this thread. The argument I see here - that it would cut out the process of humanizing a monkey, and transplanting the brain inside. I point out, it is still possible to revive NO_SCAN species with this change, even without advanced technology, and still needs the above process. To revive them, you can do the above, and defibrillate the corpse in place of cloning, provided the recipient body is fresh. Any other arguments?

[Shadeykins]

 

Sooo, I'm holding off merging this PR until I get a consensus, or people stop caring about this thread. The argument I see here - that it would cut out the process of humanizing a monkey, and transplanting the brain inside. I point out, it is still possible to revive NO_SCAN species with this change, even without advanced technology, and still needs the above process. To revive them, you can do the above, and defibrillate the corpse in place of cloning, provided the recipient body is fresh. Any other arguments?

 

If the latter part of what you just said is true, your change does absolutely nothing.

 

They are already not cloneable, and you need to brain transplant.

 

[Plotron]

That said, the races already are regularly cloned using the monkey 'technique' so it's questionable how severe the implications actually are here.

[Crazylemon]

 

Alright, I went ahead with it

After pointing out what I did and what you can do, it seemed people weren't bothered by this.