Make humans better at not getting shitfaced.

[FlattestGuitar]

 

Considering 95% of all alcohols on Cyberiad are stuff you can find on Earth it is safe to assume humans have a bit more love for ethanol than other species. Making them able to chug more of the stuff before they get drunk would be a lore-friendly buff.

 

Not sure how hard it would be to code, but skrell are already the opposite of that, so maybe just copy their code over and add a minus?

 

[Coldflame]

I agree, but I think alcohol's on the strong side in general. Being able to drink a glass of beer without getting wasted would make the bar more enjoyable.

[Plotron]

 

I agree, but I think alcohol's on the strong side in general.

It got buffed too much.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

Does anyone know how much a single unit represents? That way we'd be able to adjust the amount of alcohol that gets you drunk.

 

Probably a good idea to make it work much faster than IRL but the amount needed should be similar.

 

[Shadeykins]

10u of Whiskey is enough to make you start slurring, which is two sips.

[saywat_the_15th]

Aye, i hate getting piss-drunk after two sips of whiskey!

[Edd]

Yeah, it'd be nice if I didn't have to deal with liver transplants every time when someone decides to drink a glass of whiskey.

[Twinmold]

 

It should be based on your blood-alcohol levels (BAC) paired with overall affect to your characters. Overall, there's 560 units of blood in most living organisms on the station (at least, the ones with blood). Something similar to the following chart could work:

 

Units of | (Estimate)

Alcohol | % BAC

---------------------------

0u | 0.00%

5u | 0.01%

15u | 0.03%

20u | 0.04%

40u | 0.08%

50u | 0.10%

100u | 0.20%

 

Tolerance | Slurring | Falling | Pass | Liver | Lethal

None | 1u | 10u | 25u | 50u | 130u

Low | 10u | 20u | 30u | 50u | 130u

Medium | 20u | 30u | 40u | 50u | 130u

High | 25u | 35u | 45u | 50u | 130u

 

None: No ill effects occur whatsoever.

Slurring: Your speech becomes difficult to understand, much like how it does now when 'drunk'.

Falling: You have a random chance to 'fall over' while standing. Chance increases when moving around.

Pass: Effectively, you just pass out.

Liver: You start taking minor liver damage. If untreated over the long time, can be lethal

Lethal: You take toxin damage, which can be lethal.

 

Considering a 'drink' should consist of no more than 10 to 20 units of total drink, for safe purposes. This means if you set your tolerance to Medium, pretty much 'average' for people who drink around 140 - 160 pounds, and being in space it will likely hit you a bit harder (because space), 2 or 3 drinks could start doing something to you, but since alcohol slowly 'leaves' the system, it may take an extra drink or two. If you space out your drinking with conversation and food, then most people should not reach the falling down drunk phase, less they choose to set it to a tolerance of none or low. You'd really only get to the higher limits if you purposely down an entire bottle and some in an entire sitting or are force-fed a lot of drink.

 

The Lethal limit is up at around 0.25% to 0.28% BAC, which means you'd effectively have to try to do it to kill yourself (suicide) or be killed by someone else. The liver damage will likely kill you before the actual lethal limit would. The Liver and Lethal limits are the same across the board for balancing issues for death itself, while how 'weak' you are to alcohol for the remainder is your preference, and therefore could be a self-described difficulty factor.

 

Remember: Drink with buddies, never with people you cannot trust.

 

[Tauka Usanake]

 

Are we going to get a round-transcending stat for our characters? I'm almost for it but one: the needs to code it, and two: with the higher ups like it? It would have to work with SQL as the only means of saving data but be ignored when detective or bartender is picked as job.

 

Unless certain species will get these tolerances instead of making it dynamic through rounds. I might be up for that too

 

[FlattestGuitar]

Yeah, I'd love the system too, but it seems it would be a bit more trouble than it's worth. I'd just add the thresholds for all races to make them different and make drinking games more interesting.

[Rumiluntti]

That chart would still mean everyones liver explodes form a bottle of vodka.

[NTSAM]

what kind of assnerd pours 10-20-30u drinks

[FlattestGuitar]

 

>give me a shot of whiskey

>*pours WHOLE GLASS*

>welp

 

This is my standard check for every new bartender I see. I accept 5 or 10 units only.

 

[NTSAM]

pfft nerd if you can't handle 50 units of pure ethanol you're in the fucking weeb-level of wimp

[johannhawk]

 

well, time to make ghetto grade KO pills, so i can force a guy to pass out from a 50u vodka pill after tabling them.

 

and then choke them in maint!...or just feed them two more pills for the toxin damage and blame it on the drinks to avoid suspicion!

 

just hope i dont get hit by that 2-5% drunk-fu uppercut that does 12 damage

 

EDIT: on a more serious note, we should also add cybernetic livers...for once.

 

[Twinmold]

 

pfft nerd if you can't handle 50 units of pure ethanol you're in the fucking weeb-level of wimp

 

I'm guessing you didn't look at the Blood-Alcohol Concentrate chart, as well. Which is cross-referenced here: http://www.brad21.org/bac_charts.html

 

50 units against 560 units of blood, if you do the full math, is about 8.92857%, which anything more than 0.25% to 0.30% would effectively kill you IRL. For easy of use, and so you don't die after a SINGLE sip (5 units against 560 is 0.892857%), I reduced the 'actual' percentages by a factor of 100, so you can actually drink. A unit is not defined in SS13 on actual size, but if we compare it against the 560 units of blood everyone normally has, we get an idea. Also, if you pull that to real standards, we are talking about some REALLY big drinks to be such a high true percentage against the size of the body.

 

what kind of assnerd pours 10-20-30u drinks

 

The reasoning to smaller drinks based on percentages is therefore covered. I'm aware you play an IPC usually (and thus alcohol wouldn't do anything to you), but considering the numbers, we have to have some baseline to what is 'safe' and 'unsafe'.

 

That chart would still mean everyones liver explodes form a bottle of vodka.

 

I'm not sure of how strong each type of alcohol would be in real life, the proof they are that is, but I know there are various types. However, Space Station 13 seems to only have a single all-encompassing alcohol type (Ethanol) that all the different drinks work off of. I could well be wrong with this, and there very well may be a threshold for each different alcohol type. The chart is more generalized for alcohol in itself based on the real BAC charts.

 

I would also like to point out that a 50u pill, while it could knock someone out (for the duration the alcohol is at such levels in their system as to knock them out), after the first cycle would stop any liver damage (cycles once while 50u is in the system, liver damage occurs, next cycle is now less than 50u and the liver damage stops). The point of knocking someone out before they hit that level is both a body's defense mechanism to stop you for forcing yourself to drink more and to hopefully stop you from hitting the first harmful threshold.

 

I would also suggest, paired with the Passing out threshold, that it makes your screen go 'dark and blurry', letting you know you've reached that threshold. It wouldn't just instantly knock you out, but has a chance (perhaps high) to knock you out. The screen effect would be about as instant as it could get.

 

[Professor Cupcake]

 

Just worth saying, as we appear to have forgotten here: these drinks are not 100% alcohol. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most vodkas sit at around 30-40. I know for sure whiskey is about 40%. So 1u of whiskey should be treated as 0.4u of alcohol for these calculations, and so on for the other drinks.

If that's not already a thing in the code, it should be.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

Yeah, I dug through the code and it doesn't seem like anything like that is defined. I wasn't able to find any special properties of any alcohols though and I'm pretty sure things like rum make your screen shake a bit while whiskey doesn't do that, so I might have missed something.

[Professor Cupcake]

 

Hm. So it'd be nice if the effects of alcohols were synchronised, just with different strengths. Maybe add special effects to certain ones (absinthe hallucinations yay), but keep the base effects the same throughout.

 

Also random chance to be knocked over by Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters please

 

[Twinmold]

 

Alcohols should have different 'what they give you' effects, much like the mixed drinks overall have less alcohol to the unit (if they were made with alcohol). And example would be an Irish Cream: It's 2 units Whiskey, 1 unit Cream.

 

If 1 unit of whiskey gives you 0.4 units of ethanol, then a realistic mixed drink the size of 30 units (20 units Whiskey, 10 units Cream) would only give you 5 units of ethanol total, or if you did a full glass at 60 units, 10 units ethanol total. Effectively, even at full glasses, you'd need at least 5 or 6 of these at full glasses, paired with the body's natural absorption, to make the people with a high tolerance even have a chance to pass out, and only if they drink them in rapid succession. People at medium tolerance would need about 4 or 5 full glasses.

 

I do like the pair suggestion for making sure the amount of Ethanol you get from drinks is proportional to the type of alcohol, and if a mixed drink continues to note actual mixture of the components, then it could work easily to note how much Ethanol they would truly get pure sip. It would also mean bartenders could efficiently know what the strongest drinks are and as long as the bartender is paying attention stop serving people before they get to too high a limit.

 

Also, yes, Gargle Blasters should have a chance to just knock you to the ground.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

This thread is slowly turning into a coding discussion and I'm pretty sure there is general agreement that the current system is pretty damn broken.

 

Made an issue on github, please contribute if you can.

 

EDIT: nvm, let's keep the talk here, that's not what github is for, apparently.

 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Guest

[VampyrBytes]

I'm busy over the weekend, but I'll take a look at this next week

[Fox McCloud]

 

As someone who's played bartender longer than most of you here have played on Paradise...I'd just like to say that...from my experience and what I see, getting totally smashed is 9/10 times the drinker's fault.

 

Here's how the typical encounter goes (and yes, this applies to a number of you who've posted here).

 

Customer "Hi, I'd like X"

 

Bartender "Alright...here ya go"

 

Customer: *chugs entire glass*

 

Customer: another please

 

Bartender: Uh...you sure? You've already had enough

 

Customer: Yes, give me another

 

 

While not everyone asks for a second, chugging is incredibly common and generally what I see, more often than not for people who indulge in alcoholic beverages.

 

A smaller subset of the population behave differently though:

 

- They ask for a drink and receive it

- They take one sip wait a bit, then take another.

 

I've seen this type of player drink for the better part of an hour and still never start slurring.

 

Moral of the story: Much like real life, the more responsibile you are with alcohol, the less it negatively impacts you; if you're going to chug like no tomorrow, you're got to get drunk pretty quickly (like real life), but if you drink in moderation, then it's not going to have much if any impact.

 

There are a few alcohols that are going to get you trashed, no matter what--but most of these are intentionally designed to do so (Gin and Sonic and Suicider both come to mind).

 

technical side note: alcohol has never intentionally been buffed--there have been bugs fixed about it, which likely impacted how it behaves, but intentionally buffing alcohol has never been a thing.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

Granted, if you can drink alcohol properly you shouldn't have a problem with slurring. Still, it's a bit weird that it's that easy to get drunk after two small sips of whiskey. At least implementing a system for weighing the drunkness would be nice, so here I go with my made up knowledge.

 

Okay, so this is the definition of ethanol in the code:

 

 

/datum/reagent/ethanol

name = "Ethanol" //Parent class for all alcoholic reagents.

id = "ethanol"

description = "A well-known alcohol with a variety of applications."

reagent_state = LIQUID

nutriment_factor = 0 //So alcohol can fill you up! If they want to.

color = "#404030" // rgb: 64, 64, 48

can_grow_in_plants = 0 //Alcoholic drinks won't be grown in plants (would "water down" random seed chems too much)

var/datum/martial_art/drunk_brawling/F = new

var/dizzy_adj = 3

var/slurr_adj = 3

var/confused_adj = 2

var/slur_start = 65 //amount absorbed after which mob starts slurring

var/brawl_start = 75 //amount absorbed after which mob switches to drunken brawling as a fighting style

var/confused_start = 130 //amount absorbed after which mob starts confusing directions

var/vomit_start = 180 //amount absorbed after which mob starts vomitting

var/blur_start = 260 //amount absorbed after which mob starts getting blurred vision

var/pass_out = 325 //amount absorbed after which mob starts passing out

 

 

Pretty much what every alcoholic drink does to you is described there. I was under the impression that it would be hard to modify those values for specific subtypes of ethanol (so literally every alcoholic beverage out there), but then I found out that a lot of drinks simply have some of the variables changed for them. Here's whiskey (note the 'dizzy_adj' var, it also appears in the ethanol definition):

 

 

/datum/reagent/ethanol/whiskey

name = "Whiskey"

id = "whiskey"

description = "A superb and well-aged single-malt whiskey. Damn."

color = "#664300" // rgb: 102, 67, 0

dizzy_adj = 4

 

 

So considering this seems to work, I think all we'd have to do is redefine this set of variables for every drink (yeah, that's quite a bit of typing in the numbers):

 

 

var/slur_start = 65

var/brawl_start = 75

var/confused_start = 130

var/vomit_start = 180

var/blur_start = 260

var/pass_out = 325

 

 

 

Would this work?

 

[johannhawk]

 

im no coder, but could we adjust the amount of ethanol each drink gives you? similar to how hot chocolate slowly turns into 3x the sugar when processed.

 

have some weaker drinks turn into 0.5x the ethanol and gargle blaster 4x into the ethanol when processed.