Make genetics have only the CMO's authority

[FlattestGuitar]

 

This is a thing that I said in the SOP post, but it's apparently the wrong place to say it, so I'm saying it here:

 

 

I really don't think genetics should be a two-department job. It does technically seem like both research and medicine, but the fact that two people have joint authority leaves a lot of room for potential chaos and unjust demotions. It would be better if the CMO had complete rule over genetics, just as he has with virology (which is more about reserach than genetics is, to be fair). It looks to me that genetics is under the double authority just because of their location.

 

Unlike any other science department job genetics is absolutely incompatible with all other sciencey things and there really isn't much research that can be done with its help. Most of the time the RD has little to no contact with the geneticists and he won't need anything from them most of the time anyway. Genetics, when compared to virology ends up having to deal with many more medical problems and requests and shouldn't be hindered by possible weird requests by the RD.

 

For the sake of keeping things consistent, clear and easy to understand in special situations, I suggest we just give CMO complete authority.

 

Also, the RD already has a dozen of bloodthirsty HONKing, ClF3ing, teleporting maniacs on his hands to take care of, so adding genetics to his list of duties might be a bit overburdening.

 

 

There's no point to keeping Genetics in Research.

 

Yay or Nay?

 

[NTSAM]

I say just to hand them to Science - They used to be in charge of managing the cloner and shit, but ever since they got lazy, the Cloner was opened to all MDs and the Defib was added, and all they do is shit in their office and inject DNA into their veins for the sake of powergaming science.

[FlattestGuitar]

 

No. They actually can distribute a Clean SE, can create humanized monkeys/aliums for surgery, can supply chemistry with blood and generally make more sense to be in medical.

 

If anything it's the virologist that should be moved, he doesn't get to work on cures most rounds because there's nothing to treat unless he releases it himself.

 

[NTSAM]

 

I've never seen geneticists themselves hand out clean ses lmao

 

The CMO usually has to break in and get it his/herself.

 

The only thing I see them make monkeys for is for experimental surgeries that just waste time or for their genetic experimentation.

 

Anyone can supply chemistry with blood, just get a monkey or any other biological lifeform with blood and a syringe and you're good to go.

You only need to ask cargo or science for a crate: "Hey, I need blood for my medical supplies, can I borrow your monkey cubes?"

 

Genetics used to be medical but now it's a shit science department home to the worst kind of powergaming I've ever seen. They literally do nothing but sit in the chair spamming the blocks the whole shift until they get TK or Hulk. I can confirm this as I have observed Genetics as a ghost quite a few times.

 

ge·net·ics

jəˈnediks/

 

the study of heredity and the variation of inherited characteristics.

the study

 

Edited February 4, 2016 by Guest

[Habalabam]

 

I vote for the CMO. The geneticist critical function is that of the CMO. Their research is a bonus and does not factor into the research levels, protolathe stuff or anything. Granted, that geneticists don't have the patience to stick around. I think this is because of the lack of an SoP, which again attracts the people who just want to grab the goodies and then leave.

 

No reason why geneticist should be assumed to be easier bored than, say, the surgeon, who has even less things to pass the time with.

 

[NTSAM]

Its not that they get bored, its that they literally do not leave their seat for anything until they get muh powers xDdddD.

[FlattestGuitar]

 

But the point here is that you might need to use the scanners to obtain a UE or anything else depending on the abomination of the day you're creating. You need asolutely nothing from Science to function properly, while Genetics is actually needed.

 

Plus, their labcoats fit medbay colors better.

 

[johannhawk]

 

when i play genetics, i make sure the cloner has biomass and ignore the superpowers, if the other geneticists is working on powers, i shall tell them to NOT GIVE THEM TO ANYONE.

somebody thats usually unclonable needs cloning? i can at least give you the stuff needed for the patient to retain their identities

 

then i use my genetics access to do other fun shenanigans that at least adds something to the RP...

 

But i dont play genetics that often, but if we managed to force them to help out medbay more, things might get better.

 

Why did they have to change it so i cant use mask + ID to fix voices and identities...

 

[SkyPing]

 

Granted, there are VERY few good geneticists. Like, I can count them with one hand. As of 2016, only Jacob Ryals and Tree Waterfields (?) do the job on a regular basis PROPERLY, and the rest are usually the kinds of people that want to abuse powers.

 

I believe that the genetics argument has been cycling back and forth a LOT on the SoP discussion page, and though I have not personally taken a part in it, I feel like decent enough arguments have been made for all sides.

 

The argument for Science only: They primarily just do research on genes, and cloning is easy enough that the MD's generally just do it themselves.

 

The argument for Medical only: They're currently the easiest source of monkey cubes for us chemists, and in addition their powers are based off the human body anyways, which may sort of relate to medical somehow? Maybe? In addition, they ARE supposed to provide Clean S.E.'s, and the few geneticists that are good DO hand them out.

 

The argument for keeping both: The RD should be holding onto the research aspect, but the geneticists are needed when medbay goes to shit and a ton of people need cloning (Blob and similar disaster rounds come to mind). If MD's have to focus on other things, geneticists become a huge help. I can personally attest that the genetics guys make medbays job a lot easier when they're around. Of course, SoP has to be cleared up.

 

Overall, I'm content to just let the SoP discussion deal with this; there's no one entirely right answer to this issue and I feel that some people would have a natural bias against the genetic department in general given shitters taking advantage of the job. It's in a weird place.

 

[SkyPing]

HAH NEVERMIND, just caught up with the argument, the SoP discussion has NOTHING to do with the geneticist job itself, and talking about it there won't get the job fixed or it's department moved. It needs to be in a different discussion, sorry.

[Shadeykins]

 

Genetics provides Clean SE's (presently broken as mutadone accidentally fixes all blocks, oops), Humanized Monkeys, and subsequently identification fixes to brain transplanted/injured parties.

 

They have a direct, and active role in medical functions.

 

They have no direct, or indirect role in science - science already has medchem, xenobio, an outpost, deathmechs, deathlasers, and the ability to build entire departments, I fail to see why they have ever also required the ability to demand geneticists hand over powers on demand.

 

This is not to mention that geneticists powergaming (and they do) has absolutely no impact on the science department but SEVERE and major ramifications for the medical department (greater patient influx, not to mention to expenditure of time to make mutadone smokes and the CMO being expected to chase after hulked geneticists with syringe guns).

 

When I played medical religiously I'd always encounter the issue that I was unable to fire geneticists who blatantly abused their position and refused to provide basic services when directly ordered to do so (such as farwahumans), or decided they were entitled to steal every last toxin kit for their tourettes abominations because they'd fall back on the fact that the RD is their boss, and the RD will generally always side with the geneticist because they're not accountable to genetics at all, and siding with the geneticist has the advantage of the geneticist sharing their superpowers with the RD.

 

Having genetics moved solely to be in the confines of medical is a good first step, and a good second step would be to move the genetics consoles up a tile and replace the walls adjacent to the cloner with glass windows.

 

No other job straddles two departments like this, and there's realistically no good reason that this one should - it just creates a lack of accountability and headaches for a sub-department that's already renowned for not doing it's job and causing trouble.

 

[liran424]

I play the CMO and RD alot and I can tell you the only reason genetics is currently shared between departments is to give the RD easy access to medbay.

[liran424]

So I go with full genetics control to CMO

[Jamania]

Everything which I wanted to say has been said, but I'm casing my support in favor of CMO, since, as has been said, Genetics doesn't effect Science, but it helps Medbay a ton. Having one boss, clears the issue of conflict between the CMO and the RD, of a geneticist not doing his job, and just powergaming.

[Knightedskull]

 

I've said so much already to the reason genetics has more application and importance to the medical department than science department that I'm just gonna repost this bit.

It would be nice if genetics was purely medical, due to them having much more use for medical needs than for the science department. I mean they have just the one use for them which is giving the RD powers ( when they bother to actually acknowledge their existence).

 

Several times I've seen the RD fire genetics just because they tried to over ride my authority ( as CMO) for power distribution, geneticist saying no because he knows the SoP and I say no because he's trying to go above me, even though they have been doing their research, cloning, and everything else.

 

I don't know about you but I try and treasure the few good geneticists out there but its difficult when someone else fires them for petty reasons to the point where I have to fax CC twice ( no IA and captain not getting involved).

I couldn't count the amount of bad geneticists I had to fire for not doing their jobs, handing out SEs to everyone, or straight up shoving anyone into the death chamber.

 

Genetic research is in the same boat as virology : research is involved but serves almost no purpose outside of medical.

 

I like the idea of a joint-department job but....geneticists has much more value for medical.

 

[Scrat]

I agree that Genetics should be made just a Medical job. Not much else to say since reasons for it have already been said (little actual research, more involvement in Medical).

[Tauka Usanake]

 

I like the idea for making Genetics into Medical only but I don't think that's the correct answer. DNA mutation IS part of research but the only reason to do it is to powergame sciencedammit NTSAM I believe Virology also falls into the same situation because you have to cure viruses but also search for new ones.

Maybe if these finding also had a research value to them like biotech or illegal [spoiler2]kek[/spoiler2]. It's a really big shame that they really can't have anything more to do with the Science department. They are half about researching and the other half medical. There's a better solution to this but giving Genetics to Medical only doesn't seem like the one.

 

[Knightedskull]

 

That's just it, they have only that one thing to do for the science department.

If they could do something for the science department, I don't know what, then by all means keep it a joint department.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

I agree it should be part of MEdical, they're in charge of far more medical related tasks then Science, and frankly, Science doesn't need superpowers in addition to all the other OP shit they get.

 

And for everyone saying "lazy genetics never clone nobody or give out SE's, they're barely medical"

Genetics CANNOT SEE into Medical. Unless I stumble into the X-ray powers, I can't SEE what's going on in the cloning lab, because there's a fucking wall in the way. The view throug hthe glass airlock let's me see the very upper part of Cloning, like I see the door to the morgue and that's it.

 

You want Genetics to do Cloning and stuff, slot a window where the good for nothing Wall is, and I'll happily take care of all cloning or SE related needs, but until then Doctors have to actually TALK to me to get those. You got a headset for a reason, use it.

Or replace the wall IDFC

 

[Kyet]

 

Avast mateys! Replyzilla has been sighted off the port bow! Batten down the hatches! The wave of words approaches fast!

 

There's no point to keeping Genetics in Research.

 

Yay or Nay?

Nay.

Hell no.

"Hell No" plus "they should be entirely a sub-department of science, with no medical role or access, just a window/desk thing in their wall so they can service requests from medical".

 

The argument for Science only: They primarily just do research on genes, and cloning is easy enough that the MD's generally just do it themselves.

 

 

Better arguments:

 

• Over 95% of their time is spent doing genetic research. They do little if any cloning in a typical round. Giving a clean SE is a 5-second operation that takes less time than a R&D scientist printing someone a console screen from the autolathe. Genetics is a "medical" department in name only. The idea that they're equally split between science and medical is a sham. They're not. They're pretty much entirely a sub-department of science already - we just pretend otherwise for some reason.

• Doctors are often bored. I've seen entire rounds with almost nobody entering medical. Frankly, doctors could use more to do in most rounds.

The whole multiple bosses idea just doesn't work in practice. The CMO/RD disagree at times. It would be better if one person (RD) was in charge, and there was clear accountability.

 

 

The argument for Medical only: They're currently the easiest source of monkey cubes for us chemists, and in addition their powers are based off the human body anyways, which may sort of relate to medical somehow? Maybe? In addition, they ARE supposed to provide Clean S.E.'s, and the few geneticists that are good DO hand them out.

 

 

MedChemists should just get a blood pack in their lab by default. It is a basic reagent they need for core healing chems. Failing that, at least give them one of the smaller monkey cubes that can be expanded into a single monkey. The medical chemistry lab isn't mapped very well - it is too small, and the item placement is such that the fuel tank is always getting knocked out of position. Really, medbay chemistry needs a remap. None of this is relevant to the question of whether genetics remains in medbay, or actually gets recognized as the sub-department of science that it is.

 

"Sort of relate to medical somehow" is not a good justification for something being a sub-department of medical. Engineering fixing doors "sort of relates to security somehow", but nobody is arguing for engineering to be a joint job with security.

 

Mutadone is superior to clean SEs in treating genetic issues. It is fast and easy to make, pills of it are stackable and can be put in pill boxes, you can produce 12+ pills of it at once, rather than clean SEs one at a time on a delay. Even if for some reason, people still want SEs from genetics, the best way to solve that is to have a window in the wall. Not keeping genetics as part of medical in any way.

 

The argument for keeping both: The RD should be holding onto the research aspect, but the geneticists are needed when medbay goes to shit and a ton of people need cloning (Blob and similar disaster rounds come to mind). If MD's have to focus on other things, geneticists become a huge help. I can personally attest that the genetics guys make medbays job a lot easier when they're around. Of course, SoP has to be cleared up.

 

 

I fail to see why medbay should be treated differently than every other department.

If there's a security emergency, sec can, should and sometimes even *gasp* does ask for volunteers to fill out the ranks so they can deal with it.

If nobody is starting the engine, command asks for volunteers with eng skills to get it done.

If lots of people need medical treatment, why does nobody ask for volunteer triage docs at medbay?

 

"Oh gosh it would could helpful in a major emergency" is not necessarily a good reason for medical to operate that way all the time.

 

Genetics provides Clean SE's (presently broken as mutadone accidentally fixes all blocks, oops), Humanized Monkeys, and subsequently identification fixes to brain transplanted/injured parties.

 

They have a direct, and active role in medical functions.

 

They have no direct, or indirect role in science - science already has medchem, xenobio, an outpost, deathmechs, deathlasers, and the ability to build entire departments, I fail to see why they have ever also required the ability to demand geneticists hand over powers on demand.

 

This is not to mention that geneticists powergaming (and they do) has absolutely no impact on the science department but SEVERE and major ramifications for the medical department (greater patient influx, not to mention to expenditure of time to make mutadone smokes and the CMO being expected to chase after hulked geneticists with syringe guns).

 

When I played medical religiously I'd always encounter the issue that I was unable to fire geneticists who blatantly abused their position and refused to provide basic services when directly ordered to do so (such as farwahumans), or decided they were entitled to steal every last toxin kit for their tourettes abominations because they'd fall back on the fact that the RD is their boss, and the RD will generally always side with the geneticist because they're not accountable to genetics at all, and siding with the geneticist has the advantage of the geneticist sharing their superpowers with the RD.

 

Having genetics moved solely to be in the confines of medical is a good first step, and a good second step would be to move the genetics consoles up a tile and replace the walls adjacent to the cloner with glass windows.

 

No other job straddles two departments like this, and there's realistically no good reason that this one should - it just creates a lack of accountability and headaches for a sub-department that's already renowned for not doing it's job and causing trouble.

 

 

Mutadone should fix all blocks. Its entire purpose is to be the drug that fixes mutations.

 

Humanized monkeys, ok, that's a valuable service that genetics can provide, but being able to provide a service to a department is not necessarily a good reason to be part of that department when 95% of your time is spent doing research completely unrelated to that department. Most rounds nobody even asks genetics for this, and even when they do its simple for genetics to provide one over a counter.

 

Genetecists powergaming isn't an argument for them to be part of medical - even if it has effects on medical. ANYONE hurting anyone else, powergaming or not, regardless of department, is going to result in the injured person probably ending up in medical - that's almost universally the case. Saying that "well, medical is in charge of healing, so it should also have jurisdiction over genetics, since genetics can make things which harm" is total nonsense - because the same argument could be applied to everything from engineering's welders to security's guns. "Sorry, prisoner processing in sec should be part of medical because people can get hurt there and we have to deal with it" sounds ridiculous, and it is just as ridiculous when applied to genetics.

 

When I am RD, I will make a mutadone RSG for the HoS and specifically state over command that I am OK with the demotion/RSGing of any genetecist who abuses their powers, including handing them out willy-nilly. If the CMO asks me "can we please demote this genetecist, he took all the toxin kits and refuses to return them" then I will very likely agree. Genes should know that they need to ask robo for a medibot to keep them healthy. There is no reason to deplete finite resources when you can instead simply tap infinite resources like medibots. Also, disobeying your head is not something crew should be doing without a very good reason, especially when the head is telling them to stop doing something that might negatively impact other crew.

 

Having genetics be confined to medical is a terrible idea - the claim they're a "joint department" with science is already a blatent lie given that they spent >95% of their time doing science stuff unrelated to medical. No, genetic research is NOT medbay's area, any more then R&D research, chem research, xenobio research, or any other kind of research is medbay's area. All those kinds of research, genetic research included, belong in science, the "research department".

I would definitely support the window, however. The wall makes it unnecessarily difficult for medical staff to ask them for things when needed. Every other service-offering sub-department of science has an outward-facing desk (robo, R&D) and I don't see why genetics should be any different.

 

There is indeed no good reason why genetics straddles two departments, and it does indeed create a lack of accountability. However, taking an existing lie (that genetics is a 50/50 medical/science department, which it blatently isn't) and doubling it (by making genetics medical-only) doesn't fix anything, it just results in a bigger lie.

 

I play the CMO and RD alot and I can tell you the only reason genetics is currently shared between departments is to give the RD easy access to medbay.

 

I don't think so. It would have been easier to just give the RD access to medbay than reclassify a whole sub-department for that reason. Also, RDs can get into morgue (copied from robotics access). They might be able to get fully into medbay from that alone. Plus, they'll generally be let in whenever they ask to upgrade stuff. Overall, this is a terrible excuse.

 

Incidentally, I would think that every CMO out there would WANT the RD to have basic medbay access, since medbay benefits so hugely from the upgrades that typically the RD provides. Why would you want to keep the guy who upgrades all of your critical equipment, out of your department? Makes no sense. When's the last time a CMO had to ask the RD to leave their department because they were messing up stuff? I can't remember that ever happening.

 

I agree it should be part of MEdical, they're in charge of far more medical related tasks then Science, and frankly, Science doesn't need superpowers in addition to all the other OP shit they get.

 

And for everyone saying "lazy genetics never clone nobody or give out SE's, they're barely medical"

Genetics CANNOT SEE into Medical. Unless I stumble into the X-ray powers, I can't SEE what's going on in the cloning lab, because there's a fucking wall in the way. The view throug hthe glass airlock let's me see the very upper part of Cloning, like I see the door to the morgue and that's it.

 

Genetics having some responsibility to medical does not, in any way, constitute a good reason for having them be a sub-department of medical. R&D is expected to make items for every department. They're not a joint department with everything else. Robotics is expected to make cleanerbots, secbots, medibots, and all kinds of mechs, yet they're not a joint department either. Cargo is responsible to every other department that exists, because all the stuff they do is in service to another department - yet NOBODY has ever argued that cargo should be shared with any other department.

There is absolutely no reason that genetics couldn't be a science-only job which has a window+desk facing into the room where the cloner is currently. That way people can still ask them for stuff if they want, but this whole split-department nonsense goes away.

 

Genetics doesn't effect Science, but it helps Medbay a ton

 

Toxins doesn't effect the rest of science, except when it screws up.

Scichem doesn't effect the rest of science, except when it screws up.

Xenobio doesn't effect the rest of science, except when it screws up.

Genetics doesn't effect the rest of science, except when it screws up.

 

The first three are strictly sub-departments of science. The fourth one is a joint sub-department. Clearly, the fact that a sub-department is largely left to do its own thing isn't the deciding factor with regards to what is, and what is not, strictly a sub-department of science. What is? Whether that sub-department spends its time doing *research*. Genetics spends >95% of its time doing research. Therefore, by the criteria in actual usage, it should be a sub-department of science. Whether it provides things to other departments is irrelevant.

 

As to "helps medbay a ton", you could make that argument about anything. Security shooting spiders with eguns "helps medbay a ton". Cargo ordering medical supplies "helps medbay a ton". Engineering keeping the tesla contained "helps medbay a ton". This argument doesn't work for genetics - because it doesn't work for anything else either.

 

Genetics used to be medical but now it's a shit science department home to the worst kind of powergaming I've ever seen. They literally do nothing but sit in the chair spamming the blocks the whole shift until they get TK or Hulk. I can confirm this as I have observed Genetics as a ghost quite a few times.

 

 

If they wanted to treat people, why wouldn't they play doctor instead? Doctors, like geneticists, can clone, but they can also treat a bunch of other stuff. If they wanted to treat patients, it would be more logical for them to just select doctor rather than geneticist.

 

The fact they're picking geneticist should be treated as evidence they prefer doing genetic research, over treating patients, and expecting them to behave otherwise is not realistic, especially with the wall between them and the rest of medbay.

 

Who cares if they get TK or hulk, so long as they use it responsibly? I've seen many times that hulk was used to stop a malf AI, for example. If on the other hand, someone is misusing hulk/TK, then I don't care whether they've been treating patients too, or not. If they abuse hulk/TK they should be demoted out of genetics, and shot with a mutadone SG/RSG for good measure.

 

Perhaps the solution there is simple: make it abundantly clear to geneticists that if they act like jerks with their powers, they will not only be stripped of them, they will be demoted out of genetics entirely.

 

 

This whole debate isn't even about genetics. Not really.

 

This debate is about one thing: the fact that some players consider science OP, or at least OP relative to medical.

 

To this, I would say:

 

• Yes, science is OP compared to medical. Part of that is that medical is the department in charge of healing people, and science is the department in charge of making dangerous and often explosive things. To expect them to be equal, power-wise, is just silly! It would be like comparing medical to security, and complaining that security gets guns and medical doesn't. It is like choosing to work as a doctor rather than an explosives researcher - then complaining that you don't get access to explosives. No, it isn't even like that, it is that.

• That said, assuming you want to reduce that power disparity, there are ways of doing it without being blatently illogical by trying to make genetics a sub-department of medical when there's no good reason it is anything but a science sub-department to begin with. There are actually several sub-departments of medical that are completely broken and/or underused to begin with, and investing effort into those departments would go a long way towards addressing the disparity, whilst at the same time improving jobs that right now, are not that fun to play. For example, virology is hopelessly broken right now. Radium obsoletes their entire job. Fix that - and make the virologist capable of producing really powerful viruses. Psychology is never played, despite the fact it should have the power to have *anyone* detained for evaluation (with CMO approval), and if they prove unstable, demoted. This includes heads, even the captain. Give people a reason to play psych - and make sure they know they can actually do something. Given the amount of crazy people in the average round, this is a very, very powerful ability. The CMO, in principle, can decide who is cloned and who isn't. This is godly powerful if they start to decide "no, that person is not worth cloning". CMOs have decided the course of rounds many times by simply refusing to clone murderers. Science may be able to kill you, but it takes a CMO, most of the time, to make you permanently dead by labelling your body "DO NOT CLONE".

On a related note, I'm very surprised by medical players wishing science had less ability to hurt people and make things go boom. Much as I may curse scientist stupidity when I play medbay, they provide many of the injuries that give me something to do, and nothing is less fun than boredom, or, worst of all, feeling like you just aren't necessary.

On another note, I think we're neglecting perhaps the most important factor here: fun. If science is seen as "the fun department" because you get to play with toys, then perhaps we should ask "what can we give other departments that would qualify as a fun toy?" I'd like to see the CE get an advanced RCD, for example, for this reason. Nerfing science to remove fun doesn't magically make the other departments more fun. It just means everyone has less fun, together. That isn't progress.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Guest

[CureZen]

 

Adding in my 2 cents; Telescience had much of the same boat for research, in that it is fun, but didn't really further any objectives other than to be an asshole or give someone far more power than they could ever need as a law abiding individual. The solution was to remove it from science laboratories and make it a building option. And I've seen many a scientist make a DNA manipulator in the test lab ANYWAYS since genetics will often times just ignore the radio.

 

I would say, keep the clone where it is, either make mutadone work essentially the same as a clean S.E. or have the cloner able to generate S.E.'s based off scans, and make genetic labs a building option for science.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

This thread.

 

The point in making genetics be under CMOs rule is that sometimes they are REQUIRED for medbay to work, such as when you need a humanized monkey for a clone or want to do some genetic shenanigans on a person that isn't about research but actually fixing their UI.

 

Sure, it sounds logical to make them fall under the RD, but during actual gameply they'll be taking a TON more orders from the CMO.

 

They're certainly more about medicine than virology is and whether geneticists like it or not they can't just have a free reign over their abominations, which is exactly what happens when there are two people in charge, making neither responsible.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Facts, because I"m seeing a lot of things flung out here that aren't true.

 

- Mutadone is superior to a lean SE in every way--it resets all blocks that need to be reset while not damaging them in the process

- All medical doctors have cloner access

 

Now, a couple things some may consider opinion, but none the less:

 

- Genetics is nearly useless to medical--beyond providing them with a humanized monkey and gender flipping, there's really nothing useful they can do for medical; everything else is research based. Aside from cloning people (which geneticists tend to slack on because medical has access), the med team doesn't have a need for most of what they do---as mutadone is a catch all.

 

The CMO being in absolute control of genetics isn't going to change anything; they're still going to sit and their consoles poking away at it and ignoring 99% of requests to clone people--at best it may make them marginally easier to dismiss, but that's about it.

 

It doesn't make much sense, at all, for a job primarily geared around research to fall under complete and total control of the CMO.

 

[Kyet]

 

The point in making genetics be under CMOs rule is that sometimes they are REQUIRED for medbay to work, such as when you need a humanized monkey for a clone or want to do some genetic shenanigans on a person that isn't about research but actually fixing their UI.

 

Genetics researchers do a lot more genetics research than they do preparing humanized monkeys.

Suggesting that genetics should be under the CMO is like suggesting that engineers should report to the HoS because they kill carp with welders, or that R&D should report to the barman because they're sometimes called on to install arcade games in the bar.

Yes, it is something they do sometimes, and yes, it is helpful, but it is NOT their primary job function and they spend a tiny amount of time doing it compared to their actual job (genetics research). Sub-departments should not be assigned based on what they spend a tiny percentage of their time doing - they should be assigned based on what they spend the majority, in this case the vast majority, of their time doing. For genetics, that means they should be a sub-department of science, because they spend the vast, vast majority of their time doing genetic research.

 

Also, as to the point that creating humanized monkeys is "required" - it isn't. Other options (e.g: borging) exist.

Even if it was required, medbay needs power, air, etc, but nobody is suggesting making engine setup, atmos, etc fall under the CMO.

Hell, everyone requires a safe station to function well, but nobody is suggesting giving other departments control of security.

Clearly, X being "required" for a department to function well doesn't justify giving control of that thing to that department.

 

Sure, it sounds logical to make them fall under the RD, but during actual gameply they'll be taking a TON more orders from the CMO.

 

 

There's a huge difference between orders and requests. R&D, robotics, cargo, etc, get requests from all departments, but they get orders from the RD. The fact that genetics gets some requests from medbay is not significant in determining who they should report to. If it was, then cargo would end up reporting to every other head of staff.

 

There's also the matter of the relative importance of orders. RD might only give a single order "don't distribute powers", but that single order is round-altering. Whether you fix someone's UI or not, sure, probably matters to them, but to other people? Not really.

 

The way I see it: 95%+ of geneticist time revolves around genetic research. They are a sub-department almost entirely dedicated to research. Hence, they belong in the research department, along with the other kinds of sub-departments dedicated to research, like xenobio research, chem research, R&D, etc.

 

Of course, they can and should still provide services to the station at large, just as robo, R&D, etc, do. They just belong in the research department - because research is what they do.

 

If looking to improve medbay, a better starting point would be fixing virology (which is obsolete due to radium) and psychology (which is sidelined).

 

[Shadeykins]

 

@tzo

 

Borging someone when cloning/transplating is an option is akin to murder, and you deserve to be charged with murder every time you do this.

 

You are literally stripping a player's ability to have any amount of free will just because you don't want to do an extra bit of work.

 

Roboticists who don't have papers get charged with murder (even if the person consents), and people who arbitrarily borg brains (where they can't possibly get consent) are doubly guilty of such.

 

@Fox

 

Mutadone isn't supposed to or intended to reset all the blocks AFAIK.

 

Humanized monkeys are incredibly important for brain transplants, cloning purposes (head transplants for skeletonized/husked bodies), organ banks, and limbs.

 

In a changeling round (one of the most common round types), it is not unusual for me (as CMO) to go through anywhere from 6 to 15 humanized monkeys/farwas/naeras/wolpins/whatevers.

 

Geneticists being able to be dismissed far more easily is far, far superior than the current situation where they are almost impossible to fire.

 

Genetics has a direct impact on medical.

 

It has no impact on science.