Revisit Greys

[nickcrazy]

 

Nagging at Johannhawk, I realized Greys have become laughably overpriced for the abilities they have now.

 

Back then, let's say half a year ago. The Greys were able to talk with each other across the station and at other people, although non-Greys would not know who it was speaking to them, along with a weaker melee attack and weaker than other people.

 

Now, Greys are still as weak, but their project mind no longer has the effect that it once had, only able to speak to a person within visual range. To make it clear, you would be paying 30 karma, to have SUPA SECRET!!11! conversations with some guy you could easily just whisper to. Not to mention this nerf to their telepathic talk goes against their lore that states they are a hive minded race, undermining the core concept of their most distinct trait.

 

Looking at a free race, say, a Diona. The Greys race abilities are significantly less powered than a dionas.

 

Now I'm not stomping my feet here asking for someone to give Greys this long winded list of new powers and debuffs. I'm just saying that perhaps Greys should not cost karma in their current state or that we could instead replace their project mind with the Wyrns(if I'm spelling it right) ability to use hive mind with each other.

 

Also as a side not, would anyone ever like to fix that one pixel that hangs off a Grey's left hand as well as their ass sticking out through their jumpsuits?

 

EDIT: Here's this new idea that I thought of on the second page and I'm putting it here just so people don't have to look for it.

 

Okay, I JUST got this idea, looking back at this good ol' game called "Destroy All Humans".

 

What if, the Greys have this ability to create an illusion to others based on their appearance?

 

They would be given a modified CMA menu with the spell that would have a heavy cooldown and would require the Grey's to stand still for a solid minute so they can focus their mental ability to form this illusion. They would be able to alter their racial appearance(WITH LIMITS TO WHAT SORT OF RACES THEY CAN PICK, NO SKELETONS OR SHADOWLINGS) as well as customize their appearance just as a CMA would allow you to. What would separate this ability to the normal admin triggered CMA would be they could not change their DNA, fingerprints, name, or stats with this ability, only giving them the appearance of a different being.

 

Now, before you say too op, this ability requires them to use tremendous concentration, making them weaker and slower with this ability active. This ability can also only work so long as their form is not touched. Meaning any physical damage while using this ability would double the damage taken to them and also bring them out of the power, returning them to their actual appearance.

 

So to state clearly, this ability would be AESTHETIC ONLY with a heavy debuff at the cost of having it active.

 

I would really love some feedback on this idea.

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by Guest

[NTSAM]

 

I also want Greys to get some attention.

I saw nothing wrong with the long-distance project mind, though, and I'm not sure why it was nerfed to shit - You couldn't use it when knocked out, so don't any of you dare say "muh traitor lol," any competent traitor knows to sedate their target if they're going that way.

 

 

Also, now that we have reagent-species-stuff-things, we should try adding the sulfuric acid = safe and water = baaaaad stuff. And yeah, the hive-mind would be nice.

 

[pazneria12]

maybe have project mind, and also a unique language that speaks to every grey? kinda like the aliens communication

[Bill Chompski]

They do, it's called Ayylmaoinese.

[Dinarzad]

 

I also want Greys to get some attention.

I saw nothing wrong with the long-distance project mind, though, and I'm not sure why it was nerfed to shit - You couldn't use it when knocked out, so don't any of you dare say "muh traitor lol," any competent traitor knows to sedate their target if they're going that way.

 

 

Also, now that we have reagent-species-stuff-things, we should try adding the sulfuric acid = safe and water = baaaaad stuff. And yeah, the hive-mind would be nice.

 

I like everything within this.

 

I barely play my Grey anymore because it's a pain in the ass trying to keep to the whole 'telepathy' thing, It's FASTER just to talk normally, and I can't talk to people with it once they leave my screen, so...

 

[fludd12]

I feel like greys should be the dump stat for any "useless" psychic powers - Nothing powerful like xray-vision or telekinesis.

[Fox McCloud]

 

Let me just say one thing, to squash an idea right here and now, regardless of whether or not anything is done for Grey.

 

Karma cost and abilities mean absolutely nothing. We do not nor will we have a "pay to win" structure or a structure were in a higher karma cost species necessarily has more powers or abilities or is stronger/more unique than those that cost less karma. The cost of karma, in spirit, is meant to do two things: (1) Act as a barrier due to difficulty in RPing and (2) A different gate to limit the amount of that species on station.

 

As a third aside, before someone happens to mention it: We also don't karma lock species that are free, to begin with (Tajaran, human, Diona, Vulp, Skrell, etc).

 

[johannhawk]

 

Let me just say one thing, to squash an idea right here and now, regardless of whether or not anything is done for Grey.

 

Karma cost and abilities mean absolutely nothing. We do not nor will we have a "pay to win" structure or a structure were in a higher karma cost species necessarily has more powers or abilities or is stronger/more unique than those that cost less karma. The cost of karma, in spirit, is meant to do two things: (1) Act as a barrier due to difficulty in RPing and (2) A different gate to limit the amount of that species on station.

 

As a third aside, before someone happens to mention it: We also don't karma lock species that are free, to begin with (Tajaran, human, Diona, Vulp, Skrell, etc).

Doesnt mean we shouldnt revisit them...right?

 

[thebeoni]

Nerfing greys so much is kind off... Unfair against the players who bought them. For their damage debuff they should have been able to keep their abilities since in my opinion its a fair trade. I am for fixing it.

[Crazylemon]

 

This commit restricted remote talk to LOS, citing it as balance for a lack of cooldown. Personally, I think that the power would work fine with a full-map range, thoughts?

 

EDIT: Having read further, I've found that the reason for removing full-map range is to prevent Greys from using it as an unstoppable radio if they are getting murdered, for instance. Given that under the best of circumstances, you've got only a few seconds to send the message, and have to choose who to yell out to from a long list, in tandem with the fact that it only lets you talk with one person at a time, with a lack of a return message for most individuals, I'm not sure such a rebalancing is necessary...

 

[NTSAM]

It's hard to use Mind Talk stuff effectively with all the variables you need to recall, so I don't see how just taking that cooldown and putting it back with the long-range mind talk and giving it to Grey would hurt anything.

[Fox McCloud]

 

EDIT: Having read further, I've found that the reason for removing full-map range is to prevent Greys from using it as an unstoppable radio if they are getting murdered, for instance. Given that under the best of circumstances, you've got only a few seconds to send the message, and have to choose who to yell out to from a long list, in tandem with the fact that it only lets you talk with one person at a time, with a lack of a return message for most individuals, I'm not sure such a rebalancing is necessary...

 

You'd be surprised the amount of ahelps the admin team received about "how did so and so know I was a traitor? I was completely silent" because a grey managed to get a "SO AND IS A TRAITOR IN X" despite not having a headset.

 

Not weighting in one way or another, but greys utilizing the ability int he manner that was "worried" about was most definitely a "thing".

 

[pinatacolada]

On this topic, why was the whole water is acid/acid is water thing for greys removed?

[NTSAM]

I myself thought that someone said the code to make it do that was ass but I ain't a coder so idk

[HereticChurch]

The feature wasn't removed, it was planned but never implemented, I believe.

[nickcrazy]

 

Let me just say one thing, to squash an idea right here and now, regardless of whether or not anything is done for Grey.

 

Karma cost and abilities mean absolutely nothing. We do not nor will we have a "pay to win" structure or a structure were in a higher karma cost species necessarily has more powers or abilities or is stronger/more unique than those that cost less karma. The cost of karma, in spirit, is meant to do two things: (1) Act as a barrier due to difficulty in RPing and (2) A different gate to limit the amount of that species on station.

 

As a third aside, before someone happens to mention it: We also don't karma lock species that are free, to begin with (Tajaran, human, Diona, Vulp, Skrell, etc).

 

Thanks Fox for only covering just one of the two suggestions. Like the server is just teeming with high RP in this somewhat deluded Medium RP server. I can really tell by everyone that slime person is really difficult RPing.

 

This is getting real silly. Imagine if the Mechanic's Pod, it can be build and all that fancy shit, but it can't move on space tiles after a pod nerf to prevent nuke ops having a chance to be revealed after landing at telecomms and or the station or general antags being discovered in maint by a passing pod. Would you expect people just sit on that for half a year? Of fucking course you wouldn't, Fox, because that undermines the concept of a mechanic, their only trait. You'd be getting yelled at from left and right by upset people spending 30 karma for the job's only skill to be useless until you fixed it back to it's working order.

 

Having a race with their only noticeable trait being made completely useless, what is the point of even having them in the code? You might as well get rid of them if you're not even going to touch it.

 

A race with a special ability such as project mind should not be looked at as something that needs a nerf but rather a race that should be planned around if you're really going after one, and perhaps a bit more skill if you seem to keep getting caught by someone who could just shout over radio that you're fiddling with a holoparasite and your pda in maint.

 

I consider you a friend and a good coder Fox, but this shit is getting old. It's like the only way you see everyone being happy is if we make every race a grey stat reskin of a human.

 

[Lolzyking]

 

I don't think we need to beat up fox that bad.

 

But we shouldn't fear changing things, Grey's need something done to them, to make them more interesting, to make telepathy more usable.

 

Perhaps a snowflake code that puts their telepathy on cooldown if they are stunned, as a con to global telepathy.

 

Perhaps when on Drugs telepathy goes to the wrong person and gets garbled.

 

Death by water ( so watersprayer, fire extinguisher)

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

The feature wasn't removed, it was planned but never implemented, I believe.

IIRC it was implemented, but buggy.

Both water and sulphuric acid caused greys to take damage.

Someone eventually removed it rather than fixing it.

 

[nickcrazy]

 

Okay, I JUST got this idea, looking back at this good ol' game called "Destroy All Humans".

 

What if, the Greys have this ability to create an illusion to others based on their appearance?

 

They would be given a modified CMA menu with the spell that would have a heavy cooldown and would require the Grey's to stand still for a solid minute so they can focus their mental ability to form this illusion. They would be able to alter their racial appearance(WITH LIMITS TO WHAT SORT OF RACES THEY CAN PICK, NO SKELETONS OR SHADOWLINGS) as well as customize their appearance just as a CMA would allow you to. What would separate this ability to the normal admin triggered CMA would be they could not change their DNA, fingerprints, name, or stats with this ability, only giving them the appearance of a different being.

 

Now, before you say too op, this ability requires them to use tremendous concentration, making them weaker and slower with this ability active. This ability can also only works so long as their form is not touched. Meaning any physical damage while using this ability would double the damage taken to them and also bring them out of the power, returning them to their actual appearance.

 

So to state clearly, this ability would be AESTHETIC ONLY with a heavy debuff at the cost of having it active.

 

I would really love some feedback on this idea.

 

[NTSAM]

 

Sounds neat.

If we're going Destroy All Humans style, perhaps the ability would autodeactivate when they fire a gun or something just for aesthetic's sake or nah?

 

[nickcrazy]

 

Sounds neat.

If we're going Destroy All Humans style, perhaps the ability would autodeactivate when they fire a gun or something just for aesthetic's sake or nah?

 

Absolutely, if it is possible to code I would also want to see that debuff added to the power aswell.

 

[Scrat]

Well the illusion should only break on hostile contact.. head pats or hugs shouldnt return you to normal! :

[nickcrazy]

 

Well the illusion should only break on hostile contact.. head pats or hugs shouldnt return you to normal! :<

 

Well right now, I want to give it a pretty good debuff to get some of the more strict admins to get on board with the new ability pitch.

 

But yeah, I would love if someone with coding knowledge could try and make this and put it on the github for an actual consideration by coders and the usual github lurkers. Going to edit the original post to mention this new idea.

 

[LightFire53]

 

They would be given a modified CMA menu with the spell that would have a heavy cooldown and would require the Grey's to stand still for a solid minute so they can focus their mental ability to form this illusion. They would be able to alter their racial appearance(WITH LIMITS TO WHAT SORT OF RACES THEY CAN PICK, NO SKELETONS OR SHADOWLINGS) as well as customize their appearance just as a CMA would allow you to. What would separate this ability to the normal admin triggered CMA would be they could not change their DNA, fingerprints, name, or stats with this ability, only giving them the appearance of a different being.

 

Now, before you say too op, this ability requires them to use tremendous concentration, making them weaker and slower with this ability active. This ability can also only works so long as their form is not touched. Meaning any physical damage while using this ability would double the damage taken to them and also bring them out of the power, returning them to their actual appearance.

 

It sounds like you want to make greys a humanoid chameleon projector. Interesting. I like it.

 

The balance here seems good. Charge up time, cool down, and debuffs for appearance altering. Were you thinking something along the lines of Diona run speed? Or a little faster than that, like hardsuit run speed?

 

This would pose as an interesting mechanic for antags too. Hide your ID, wear a gasmask, change to desired species, commit crime. Again, with the debuffs and such present, being able to hide yourself is really only effective if the AI is the only one around. Not overly OP, I imagine.

 

In short: This would get me to buy greys. Sounds like fun.

 

 

[nickcrazy]

 

 

It sounds like you want to make greys a humanoid chameleon projector. Interesting. I like it.

 

The balance here seems good. Charge up time, cool down, and debuffs for appearance altering. Were you thinking something along the lines of Diona run speed? Or a little faster than that, like hardsuit run speed?

 

I was thinking mining hardsuit run speed.

 

Glad you like the idea.