Proposed revisions to R&D SOP.

[mrturkeytoe]

 

I have just recently looked over the R&D SOP and it looks like it is practically built from salt towards mechs and grenades were not very well thought out.

 

 

 

Current Roboticist SOP:

Code Green

1. The Roboticist is not permitted to construct Combat Mechs without express permission from the Captain and/or Head of Security. This refers to the Durand, Gygax and Phazon. If permitted, the Mechs is to be delivered to the Armory for storage. The Research Director is placed under the same restrictions;

 

Current Scientist SOP:

Code Green

1. Scientists are not permitted to bring Grenades outside of Science;

 

Code Blue

2. Scientists are permitted to bring Grenades outside of Science, but only for delivery to the Armory;

 

 

 

Proposed Roboticist SOP:

Code Green

1. The Roboticist is not permitted to construct Combat Mechs without express permission from the Captain and/or Head of Security. This refers to the Durand, Gygax and Phazon. If permitted, all Mechs equipped with lethal modules are to be delivered to the Armory for storage, Gygaxes that are equipped with utility modules are to be delivered to the specific department they are specialized in, if they are equipped with lethal modules at any time, they are to be delivered to security, immediately refit or destroyed. The Research Director is placed under the same restrictions;

 

I've have seen people have a herd of bloodthirsty security chasing after their Gygax that doesn't have weapons on it with ion guns a million times and it's stupid, and security use it as a excuse to muderbone and validhunt. There's plenty of reasons to make a Gygax instead of a Ripley or Firefighter, namely Ripleys and Firefighters are slow as ass.

 

Proposed Scientist SOP:

Code Green

1. Scientists are not permitted to bring explosive, incendiary, electromagnetic or otherwise dangerous, disruptive or lethal Grenades outside of Science and they cannot be used in a disruptive manner;

 

Code Blue

2. Scientists are permitted to bring Grenades outside of Science, but only for delivery to the Armory. Exception is made for extreme emergencies, such as a Blob Organism or Nuclear Operatives, where the Scientist may deploy the Grenades themselves.

 

I think this is better because there are plenty of beneficial grenades to, and if it is a extreme emergency, they should be permitted to deploy lethals ones.

 

[Shadeykins]

 

I have seen plenty of non-lethal mechs used exclusively to evade security and cause major issues.

 

You seriously underestimate how powerful grav catapults and RCD's can be.

 

If you want a utility mech, use a RIPLEY/FIREFIGHTER, not a combat mech frame.

 

@ #2. SoP is only a guideline, and goes pretty much out the window there's a severe emergency.

 

Read the foreword on the primary Standard Operating Procedure page on the wiki.

 

There are also far better methods to distribute chems than grenades, such as smoke mixes (which don't need nades, and don't jump everyone's blood pressure, and are easy to verify), and sprays.

 

I have only seen "beneficial grenades" used all of once in the year or so I've been here, and it was in escape on a bunch of already uninjured people. The realistic application for "beneficial grenades" is very, very small.

 

[mrturkeytoe]

You still need a grenade casing for smoke. And how does a RCD or Grav catapult become more dangerous on a Gygax/Durand? And Ripleys and FireFighters are super, super slow, engineers never ever ever use FireFighters because they're slow as shit.

[Shadeykins]

 

You answered your own question.

 

Because a RIPLEY is super, super slow.

 

You do not require a grenade casing for smoke. Mixing from beakers is faster, and more convenient - as you can tell what the smoke compound is based off the colour of the beaker, rather than trying to remember which grenade is which.

 

It's also instantaneous, whereas a grenade is not.

 

[DayZ Me Trolling]

I'd like to point out how odd using a combat chasis for utility purposes sounds... That's like taking a M1 Abrams and slapping a water hose on it and calling it a "Firefighting tank." Not only is it /super/ easy to refit a combat mech if security lets it slip by, do you know how much damage a melee attack does? One smack and you've got a broken bone. No thanks, I'd rather we didn't have the "Exdee Phazon hez nu wepuns so is ok" guys going around being a huge pain in the ass.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Guest

[Keroman]

 

Choo-choo, the Keroman bitch train is pulling into the station.

TL;DR - You broke SOP then complained about the completely justified reaction you got. If you want to play with the things Science makes don't play science.

 

As one of the security officers who was on last night and had to take down the Gygax that Quark was piloting here's what happened from our point of view.

 

I see the IAA running around with a wormhole projector. A discussion happens on the sec radio channel about why he should or should not have it. He is eventually jailed and fired for possession of not only the wormhole projector but also a spear. Hooray for IAAs that don't understand or follow SOP.

 

I go to the R&D window to ask why the IAA was given a wormhole projector and I'm hearing talk between the RD (you, turkeytoe) and Quark about having adrenaline implants. I ask you to please, please, please, not hand that stuff out because it makes security's job way harder. I don't remember you ever responding to that but you definitely started arguing about the wormhole projector not being lethal (it absolutely can be) and not being a weapon (I would bet cash money that it's used as a weapon WAY more often than as a means for transportation) and just not being helpful in general. I PDA the Captain and ask her to talk to you. Her reply is that she's had a chat with you and asked you to tone it down.

 

Subdon Edwards (the other sec officer) and I spot a Gygax being built. I immediately check in with the Captain and HoS to see if it's authorized as per SOP. They both say no, it's not. Kalaya, the HoS, even retroactively gave permission just to save us the headache of going in and busting heads, the caveat to her permission being that as soon as the Gygax is finished it is delivered to the brig for use by security.

 

There is talk of putting a tracking beacon on the Gygax but as far as I saw that never happened until it Quark hopped in to run off and completely ignore the requests of security and the Captain. The only reason a tracking beacon got put on at all is because Subdon had the presence of mind to grab one and chase after the Gygax. EVEN WITH THE TRACKING BEACON ON IT YOU, THE RESEARCH DIRECTOR, DID NOT LOCK IT DOWN, FORCING SECURITY TO CHASE AFTER IT AND DESTROY IT WITH THE ION GUN. That is, at it's core, tacit approval for your employee to disobey SOP which is grounds for the Captain to fire both you and the scientist trying to run off with a mech that he shouldn't have.

 

Security comes in to destroy the Gygax with the assistance of not just the Captain but the AI as well. That alone should tell you something about your actions and the actions of your employee. The Captain, HoS, AI, and the entire security team were out to fix the problem that you caused by not stopping Quark from finishing that Gygax.

 

When the Gygax is disabled Quark teleports away using one of those strange objects that gives a random short-range teleport effect. The whole time he's calling security every name under the sun, saying we're overreacting, wasting time, not chasing after real criminals, and just generally pissing us off as much as he can. His argument is that it has no weapons, but how are we to trust someone who so blatantly breaks SOP to not just wait until we're gone then load up the mech with all sorts of firepower? Eventually he's caught and spends the rest of the round in the brig and then the security section of the evac shuttle. Surprise! At round end he's no antag, despite his best efforts to make us believe otherwise.

 

You know what my favorite part about all this is? The very next round I hear Quark asking the Captain permission over the radio if he can build a Gygax with no weapons, only utility modules. The guy who expressed blatant disdain for SOP and for the security team attempting to enforce it actually realized that it's way easier to follow the fucking rules! At least there was something good that came out of all of this.

 

And before you complain that it's not security's job to enforce SOP here's a breakdown of why it was necessary:

- You ignored a request from the security team to stop breaking SOP.

- You ignored a request from the HoS to stop breaking SOP.

- You ignored a request from the CAPTAIN to stop breaking SOP.

- At that point the Captain has the right to remove you and/or your scientist from your positions, but of course Quark was not going to go quietly. He hopped in his mech and tried to run.

- NOW security has to act to stop what we consider to be a rogue mech.

 

And if your argument about wanting a Gygax is that "the other mechs are too slow" then your suggestion should be to speed up the other mechs. As I said in Discord last night the Ripley moves faster in low-pressure environments now which makes it great for patching breaches. I would LOVE to see the Ripley and Firefighter mechs get more love outside of mining.

 

Taking a combat mech which can mount both nonlethal and lethal weapons and saying you pinky-promise with a cherry on top you won't mount any weapons on it means absolutely nothing in-game. For all we know you're a traitor! This is why accountability matters.

 

You also mentioned you think it's ridiculous that the science department doesn't get to use the stuff they make. As someone else replied in Discord chat, that's the ENTIRE POINT of the department. Make cool stuff, maybe test it out a bit, then get it to the department that needs it.

 

If you're playing in the Science department you are not Security, Engineering, Medbay, or anything else.

If you're a Scientist you are not Security, Engineering, Medbay, or anything else.

If your'e a Roboticist you are not Security, Engineering, Medbay, or anything else.

If you're the RD you are not Security, Engineering, Medbay, or anything else.

 

If you want to play with the cool toys, play a job that gets to use them, DON'T play Science. Hell, I would LOVE to see you play Security and put up with some of the bullshit people try to pull. You'll start to understand really fast why we did what we did last night.

 

One last thing. As soon as the round was over you were in voice chat complaining about the comdomery of the HoS, Captain, and Security team. Except we weren't the ones disregarding SoP. It was you. You were the comdom. I hope you can understand why.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

Right, first off, the Science Job SOP thing was open for well over half a month. It was also very much discussed in-game in OOC chat.

 

Secondly, pretty much what Keroman said. Just because you get to make the toys, doesn't mean you can play with them unless you have a very, very, very good fucking reason. If you're playing Science just so you can play with the toys, and I fucking hate having to say this, but you're playing it wrong. Science is supposed to make stuff that makes everyone else's life a hell of a lot easier, not hoard stuff for themselves. You are not an insular nation-state.

 

If you want to use a Mech, play a Department that has a reason to use it, then use it.

 

Not to mention, no one in their right mind would fire a Scientist for throwing a Synthflesh/Styptic/Sulfadiazine grenade. Plus, as said, SOP is malleable.

 

And here's a radical notion: ask people. Literally all your problems can be solved by asking. Nowhere even in this SOP is written and stamped consent required for anything. Literally all you have to do is go on the radio and ask. If you get a no, then don't complain about people raining on your parade when you ignore them.

 

[mrturkeytoe]

 

I think anyone other than security having a Phazon would end in tears.

 

Kero i had put a tracker on it already, and i do think Quark completely broke every rule but security also seemed to just want to blow it up for blowing it up's sake but Quark didn't need a mech either way, if he wanted to make a utility mech, give it to engineering. And your argument about firefighters and ripleys being faster in low pressure environments doesn't really make a difference because the only area that's going to be low pressure is the area directly surrounding the breach, it would still be pointless to bring a firefighter or ripley because 90% of the time the problem's already fixed by the time the mech can get there.

 

And with the IAA with the spear and portal gun, i didn't know at the time that people that are loyalty implanted are no longer expected to not pull stupid shit.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

It's not about the implant.

 

It's about the job.

 

[KasparoVv]

 

Choo-choo. -snip-

 

god damn rekt sun, I think that's bwoinkable

 

[Keroman]

 

Kero i had put a tracker on it already

Fair enough, I only heard Subdon say later that he put a tracker on it but I likely misheard. Did you lock the mech down? Because while I didn't see the mech get blown up I heard it moving around just before getting shot with the ion rifle.

 

i do think Quark completely broke every rule but security also seemed to just want to blow it up for blowing it up's sake

Contrary to popular belief security officers aren't always mindless killing machines. In fact we asked you multiple times to stop because you were breaking SOP and you ignored us or argued with us. Also unless Subdon pulled out his stun baton (which I don't remember happening but I could be wrong) we did not escalate the situation with threats. We asked politely at first, then we had the HoS and the Captain step in and ask again on our behalf, all of which you ignored. So pardon me if I don't believe you when you say you thought we just wanted to blow shit up for funsies.

 

but Quark didn't need a mech either way, if he wanted to make a utility mech, give it to engineering."

We agree on this point, but if Quark had used a Ripley or a Firefighter we wouldn't have been so up in arms about it. His "fuck the police" attitude definitely served to escalate the issue, and your tacit acceptance of his rule-breaking made us feel like we had no other option but to stop him with force. You might think you didn't do anything to escalate but as the RD it's your job to rein in your employees when they start to get out of line, and then to call in security if they ignore you. Your decision to act as a bystander was all the go-ahead Quark needed.

 

And your argument about firefighters and ripleys being faster in low pressure environments doesn't really make a difference because the only area that's going to be low pressure is the area directly surrounding the breach, it would still be pointless to bring a firefighter or ripley because 90% of the time the problem's already fixed by the time the mech can get there.

Oh, right, the area around a breach.. which.. needs to be patched.. which is what you're arguing a utility mech (with a mounted RCD) would be good for. If the mech is built and available in engineering I bet it might see some use. I'm still on board with making the Ripley and Firefighter mechs faster in pressurized environments so they have more station-wide utility, but the mere fact that nobody ever seems to build an engineering mech means they're never going to get used for engineering stuff.

 

And with the IAA with the spear and portal gun, i didn't know at the time that people that are loyalty implanted are no longer expected to not pull stupid shit.

Well now you know otherwise. Glad you took something out of all of this, even if it was just this one thing.

 

[mrturkeytoe]

What i'm saying is with how atmospherics works the "B-b-bu-buh But! Ripelys and Firefighters are faster in low pressure!" argument doesn't mean anything, they'll still be slow as shit unless they're directly over the hole. So they wont get there any faster.

[Keroman]

 

Take the nearest airlock and circle around to the breach? I would actually appreciate the addition of mech thrusters in the game. Maybe not to act like a jetpack but to allow them to go EVA without fear of flying off the station and becoming unrecoverable.

 

Again, you and I do not disagree about the fact that Ripleys and Firefighters are too slow. I'm right there with you, man.

 

[davidchan]

 

Science is supposed to make stuff that makes everyone else's life a hell of a lot easier, not hoard stuff for themselves. You are not an insular nation-state.

 

Better known as how I got my Karma for Vox. Or at least used, people seem less grateful now days when you deliver all the best gear their job can use.

 

As far as SOP changes go, I'm iffy on allowing Gygaxs to run around in Green. While he does raise a valid point that the Gygax is infact a better utility mech becuase of it's speed, the fact that it can still equip weapons makes it somewhat dangerous, especially since Robotics Fabricators aren't ID locked and it's pretty easy to break into the lab.

 

As far as Phazons go, making SOP around them is redundant given how much RNGesus you need just to get miners active AND an anomaly in one round.

 

I do like the idea of thrusters on Mechs though, they could pull from the internal air canister. Either making it a mech upgrade or an actual equipment slot would be fine to me, if we ever tweaked asteroid code to make boulder hoping relevant again I'd love to have a vectorable Ripley.

 

[HereticChurch]

 

Not too big a fan of the revisions. I will note that you claim the SoP was "built from salt" and yet this whole post sounds like it's based on salt from a round you experienced. Gygaxes are dangerous as hell, even without weapons. The fists on combat mechs can do a shitton of damage + stun and knockback, so they're always lethal.

 

As an aside, I'd love for there to be a more dedicated engineering mech that wasn't just a repainted Ripley with a few different equipment choices and fire resistance. An engineer in a mech would probably want to get to breaches quickly, and have a jetpack/thruster module built in to the actual mech itself (Which is technically already in game, and is used by the centcomm mechs + the Mauler the nuke ops get), as well as have four or so equipment slots so they could get their critical equipment.

 

[mrturkeytoe]

I think if engineering got something better than the firefighter people would be less inclined to use combat mechs instead.

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

To reiterate what was said before, the Gygax is a combat chassis. In line with the "firefighter tank", I'd think a better analogy would be to take, say, an APC, remove the weapons but keep the emplacements, install some minor tools on it, and call it a "support vehicle".

 

The mere existence of a Gygax is a security risk, as it takes literally seconds for those harmless tools to be replaced with dangerous weapons.

 

That said, thrusters on a Mech would be fucking amazing, and would give Engineering ample reason to use a Mech with a Mounted RCD.

 

[Professor Cupcake]

 

take, say, an APC, remove the weapons but keep the emplacements, install some minor tools on it, and call it a "support vehicle".

Funnily enough, this is what militaries actually do a lot of the time.

'Cept they usually have a bit more than "minor" tools...

 

[Shadeykins]

These vehicles also remain solidly under military control, and not civilian.

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

Yes, but the whole point is that, if necessary, the tools can be removed and the whole thing refitted. It's still a combat-ready chassis.

 

Same goes for the Gygax. Yes, it can mount utility tools. Yes, it's faster. But it can also very easily mount laser cannons, shotguns and machine guns.

 

Also what Shadey said.