Give the poor prisoners something to do!

[NTSAM]

 

It's a well-known fact that 9 out of 10 permabrigged people log off instantly when they realize they're stuck in a cramped-ish room with nothing to do but stare at a table or play some shitty simple RNG-based arcade game for ~2 hours.

 

This is a simple suggestion to add any of the following to Perma so people don't get bored.

 

 

• A simple botany room

• An art room (idk i see prisoners in movies making art a ton of times)

A basketball court.

 

 

Obviously we shouldn't make Perma the comfiest place ever but letting poor folk have fun isn't really criminal(sorry kek) is it?

 

[Nakhi]

 

I actually think the perma brig on the other map (boxstation?) has this. A common area, plus a botany area with Ambrosia seeds too. Because if you're in perma, fuck it, grow some weed.

 

But at least with the station we have, I personally think this would at least alleviate some of the inevitable boredom that comes with being locked up in the permabrig. Yes, it can be argued that if you're there, you don't deserve to have fun, but that's partmof an argument that'd cause problems for Security, when these bored people attempt a breakout.

 

On the other hand, 95% of the time anymore the permabrig is being used for antagonists that got caught, so they'll inevitably attempt the breakout anyway.

 

But having a little botany area could hurt, I am sure. Who actually uses those beds in the corner room? That'd be a fine area.

 

[Kyet]

 

It's a well-known fact that 9 out of 10 permabrigged people log off instantly when they realize they're stuck in a cramped-ish room with nothing to do but stare at a table or play some shitty simple RNG-based arcade game for ~2 hours.

 

This is a simple suggestion to add any of the following to Perma so people don't get bored.

 

 

• A simple botany room

• An art room (idk i see prisoners in movies making art a ton of times)

A basketball court.

 

 

Obviously we shouldn't make Perma the comfiest place ever but letting poor folk have fun isn't really criminal(sorry kek) is it?

 

I don't think this goes far enough.

 

IMHO, perma should be remapped completely - the existing layout is terrible for several reasons, of which boredom/SSDing is only one (although, arguably, the most important one).

 

Here is what I made when I spent a few minutes experimenting with remapping perma:

 

Bear in mind, this remap is also terrible - it was just a first attempt as I was screwing around. I mention it only because it illustrates two of the concepts I was thinking about.

 

The primary addition is a mini-botany area, as you suggest. IMHO this alone does not go far enough in terms of enabling fun and giving prisoners something to do other than SSD.

I'd add a second arcade machine, and a basketball court. They aren't in this image because I did not add them at the time, but if I were to map this seriously, I'd probably add both.

I also experimented with fixing the labor camp - but there were several issues that made me abandon that project. If I was going to do that seriously I think I'd need to move the labor camp to a completely new asteroid which isn't subject to the cave generation algorithm and always has internal air, a non-breakable perimeter, etc.

 

Frankly, I'd like to see the permabrig area's security improved, too. Separate, isolatable cells for each prisoner would be a good start. Possibly a disposals chute to put people in by yourself more easily on low-pop rounds. Currently, many sec dislike using perma because prisoners try to escape, injure each other, or jump guards that come in. Execution is far safer - which encourages taking people out of the round entirely.

 

I even debated adding a sort of auto-borging machine to sec, too, so that (with sec consent) prisoners could self-borg to get back into the round in some fashion.

Or, simply a device that, when you enter it, completely kills you and lets you respawn as a different, non-antag crew member.

Something that enables you to stay in the round.

More fun for the prisoner (they get to stay in the round), more fun for security (antags act like antags as they're not afraid of being caught), and more fun for the server (as antags are more active because they no longer fear one slip will effectively cut them out of the round entirely). When thinking about the balance issues, I debated switching to a series of self-borging syringes (special syringe type, cannot be made, borgs you after a 10min delay, only accessible to HoS/warden but only injectable on yourself). That would allow players that sec thinks should rejoin the round, to be able to rejoin the round, whilst still upholding space law and not allowing "insane" prisoners to become all-access borg terrors. HoS/warden would need to give the prisoner one, and let them use it, then keep them in isolation until it took effect. They still got some punishment but weren't out of the round forever. Perhaps they get a special lawset, too.

 

Anyway, yes to the mini-botany area, yes to the basketball court, yes to the art room if it fits, and I additionally suggest adding better security and/or a self-borging option that can be used with the consent of both the HoS/Warden and the prisoner (and is coded such that it is impossible to use on anyone against their will).

 

[DisreputableSquid]

If nothing else, give them a ball to bounce against the wall or something. Ive never been brigged, let alone perma brigged, but id hate to be stuck with nothing.

[Nakhi]

 

Having spent zero minutes in the permabrig and regular brig, but having played security, I can think of a few things that would improve it. But I see a few problems I see with the mapping. I know you said it's a terrible remap, but it's a decent enough basis to at least add some critique.

 

- For the botany area, there's no seed vendor. Can't grow if you can't seed.

- The all windows cells are... well, ultimately a bit odd. I also don't see the grilles under them, but I assume it's implied given the wiring. From a security standpoint, it is still relatively secure.

- For clarification; is that disposals pipe meant for security send items into the perma brig, without having to expose themselves to danger? I approve of this if that's the case. Means less danger if someone is preparing to spring a trap in perma and they ask for X to come on in for something.

 

On the note of needing more, there comes a line between "punishment" and "enjoyable". I don't see the point of, say a basketball court, when usually there will only ever be one person in the permabrig at best. The Captain usually likes doing executions instead of permabriggings if they catch an antag. And Security always urges for the death penalty for any capital crime (even if it's one of the "less severe" ones like Attempted Murder, or, only once, Sexual Assault). So, I doubt the court is needed, but maybe an arcade machine. Ultimately you may have one person on the botany, another one or two on the arcade machines, and whoever else just doing their own thing. There's ultimately no reason to go too overboard.

 

I can see the problems with the self-borging thing. That requires the Captain or Magistrate to approve a forced cyborging. If you're in the permabrig for, let's say, a capital crime, then it should have been sentenced prior instead of done after the fact. If you're in for a stacking of normal charges, it feels like just a way to get out of the permabrig. I feel like, for those people that get put in the permabrig for just being a shitter toward Security, to be able to get borged like that, would turn around and metagrudge the people that arrested them. I am sure the staff would jump on it. Ultimately if they want to get borged, it should be done the legal means with paperwork and going to Robotics.

 

The latter issue is the same with the idea of being able to be removed from the round and respawn. Respawn is disabled by default to prevent metagrudging and gaming in that form. However, adding a cryo pod or two to Perma could accomplish basically the same thing, and have more utility. In going to cryo, if you SSD, you get removed from the round and the slot re-opened for anyone that may join later. Plus it'd make more sense from a realism sense to have them moved to a "long term incarceration storage" or something like that, instead of just jumping in and getting a free execution without approval from Captain/Magistrate.

 

Ultimately, some of the ideas are good. But Perma won't be used as much no matter what changes get made. That's why a few little things are better for the time being instead of a major overhaul. I do hope that some things would be considered by staff, as plausible, or at least point out any issues with any of this. I know I have heard before from someone that the idea isn't to make the brig fun.

 

[davidchan]

I would honestly argue for removing Perma all together and merging it with Labor Camp so brigged prisoners can mine, even if it means we have to make a secondary asteroid a little farther away from the other outposts if need be. Mining wouldn't be required of prisoners, but it'd be an option and chance to make them productive.

[Professor Cupcake]

 

This one again, huh.

 

I would honestly argue for removing Perma all together and merging it with Labor Camp so brigged prisoners can mine, even if it means we have to make a secondary asteroid a little farther away from the other outposts if need be. Mining wouldn't be required of prisoners, but it'd be an option and chance to make them productive.

^Yeah, that.

 

[Coldflame]

 

I would honestly argue for removing Perma all together and merging it with Labor Camp so brigged prisoners can mine, even if it means we have to make a secondary asteroid a little farther away from the other outposts if need be. Mining wouldn't be required of prisoners, but it'd be an option and chance to make them productive.

There's a reason prisoners never get sent off-station currently.

 

Unless the prison was on a different z-level with zero chance of escape short of taking the shuttle back, sending prisoners there would be a huge liability. There really ought to be more reason to detain capital criminals over killing them, not less.

 

[davidchan]

 

There's a reason prisoners never get sent off-station currently.

 

Unless the prison was on a different z-level with zero chance of escape short of taking the shuttle back, sending prisoners there would be a huge liability. There really ought to be more reason to detain capital criminals over killing them, not less.

 

Escaping from the Labor camp is actually quite difficult if anyone is keeping anyone eye on it. Nobody gets sent of station because that requires more work and accountability than most Wardens and HoS's are willing to put up with. Most people who get Perma'd either escape, suicide, or die from carp. And Security never even realizes this until 20-30 minutes later.

 

If Labor camp was redone and made to be functional with a larger area for prisoners to mine, it'd be used quite a bit more. Especially if Perma wasn't 30 steps away.

 

First and foremost, I would prefer to see brig/prison being used as a cheap labor center. Collecting resources, growing extra food, or even implementing some kind of treadmill/man powered turbine for prisoners to use to generate a small bit of power for use in the station power grid. Security could risk letting prisoners work on somewhat more complex tasks, with the knowledge that certain tasks give prisoners access to materials they could use to escape if not watched closely.

 

[saywat_the_15th]

 

I have spent a full 2 hour shift in perma because my traitor buddy fucked up and got us caugh. I can say that without a decent warden that keeps you company, perma sucks goliath balls. Botany would be nice.

 

 

 

 

 

i ended up wearing Ian shirt, pink cape, papercone hat and had a cat plushie in perma.

 

 

[Shadeykins]

 

oh my god, guys

 

guys

 

I got it

 

make them farm potatoes

 

No, seriously.

 

Make them farm potatoes.

 

[pinatacolada]

...and give them a blender and enzyme. Everyone knows the secret ingredient to the best vodka is labor.

[Tauka Usanake]

 

oh my god, guys

 

guys

 

I got it

 

make them farm potatoes

 

No, seriously.

 

Make them farm potatoes.

...and give them a blender and enzyme. Everyone knows the secret ingredient to the best vodka is labor.

All my yes to both of these. Also, if you need a new perma brig then why not just make an off-site prison station? There were some maps in the past that did that. Was there something wrong with the design that it's not done anymore?

 

[Marcrell]

 

Have to be a bit of a Space Law rewrite, but I'm definitely a fan of botany and mining in perma. Law currently only offers perma, execution, or borging for capital crimes. Rewrite law to offer labor camp with tracking implant, and add the option to set no point limit on the shuttle for labor camp for permanent residents.

 

I might also support a system to "loan" them out to other departments. Either with a new implant or use tracking+chem. They can go and work on the station, but are closely monitored and if they get out of line you pop the Chem implant. If the Quartermaster didn't have any techs, you could loan out a perma occupant to work there.