Geneticist Job SOP Revision

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

Proposal for a new Guideline to be added to Geneticist Code Green Job SOP:

 

The Geneticist is not permitted to leave the Genetics Lab with the Hulk Genemod without express permission from the Research Director and Head of Security

 

Edited February 21, 2016 by Guest

[Shadeykins]

 

Remember when you make the wiki page for medical SoP (which of course I'll format later) to include the geneticist in the medical section too.

 

also yes

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

I'd think we could just copy paste the Geneticist over.

[Coldflame]

I'd argue it's more of a captain decision (perhaps HoS), but I'd certainly support this as well.

[TullyBBurnalot]

Part of Command SOP is going to include "All judgement calls by Heads of Staff reflect back on them", or something to that effect, so if an RD permits it and shit goes wrong, it makes the RD accessory to it.

[Coldflame]

 

Part of Command SOP is going to include "All judgement calls by Heads of Staff reflect back on them", or something to that effect, so if an RD permits it and shit goes wrong, it makes the RD accessory to it.

The damage has already been done by the time it comes to finger pointing the department head.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

True, but we expect our Heads of Staff to not be drooling idiots who need to be constantly babysat by the Captain.

[ProperPants]

 

Why is this enormous argument about genetics happening now? Has it changed so dramatically in a recent update that it has sparked an argument? If it hasn't been changed for a long time, why wasn't it a problem before?

 

My 2 cents, it's still not a problem, but the exciting stuff never happens to me so what do I know.

 

[Shadeykins]

Genetics has always been hotly contested.

[davidchan]

 

Part of Command SOP is going to include "All judgement calls by Heads of Staff reflect back on them", or something to that effect, so if an RD permits it and shit goes wrong, it makes the RD accessory to it.

 

Does this mean RD will gain access to lockboxes for protolathe weapons for testing then?

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

Not... really, this is in reference to stuff like letting Genetics give Sec/someone else get powers, or in the case of the CMO, allowing a virus to be released without knowing their full list of symptoms (assuming the virus turns out horrible, of course).

[Keroman]

 

True, but we expect our Heads of Staff to not be drooling idiots who need to be constantly babysat by the Captain.

 

While I'm all for IC solutions to IC problems there are many, many, many rounds where it is impossible to discipline a department head who goes against SOP because it will just make the situation worse.

 

As an example the other day we had a Cult round and the HoS and Blueshield (neither of them cultists) arrested the Captain and force-fed him holy water while his loyalty implant was still clearly visible with any SecHUD. Because Security was short-staffed and there were a number of other problems popping up even once the Cult was more or less eliminated there was just no chance for us to enact any sort of formal reprimand much less removal of the HoS from his position.

 

In situations like that, where a Department Head is blatantly violating either SOP or direct, reasonable orders from a clearly uncompromised Captain, it should warrant at least a talking to from an Admin, or at most a brief jobban so they understand that such positions should not be undertaken lightly.

 

The same should be true for RDs who allow the handing out of illegal implants or allow the building of combat mechs without authorization from the HoS or Captain (barring Code Blue/extreme emergency).

 

Really if a Department Head is not an antag they should not be complicit in allowing their department to cause major issues on board the station. If they do so repeatedly they should be banned from the position.

 

I know it's not a popular opinion but I, personally, would be all for whitelisting command positions so that only approved players can play them. If no approved players are on then the position can go to someone who isn't whitelisted. I really feel that would cut down on some of the problems we've seen with Department Heads faffing about and letting their departments go to shit.

 

[Doukan]

 

Why is this enormous argument about genetics happening now? Has it changed so dramatically in a recent update that it has sparked an argument? If it hasn't been changed for a long time, why wasn't it a problem before?

 

My 2 cents, it's still not a problem, but the exciting stuff never happens to me so what do I know.

Nothing changed, but recently I've noticed we've had an influx of people learning how to genetics, and subsequently more people not exactly being model crewmen with their new knowledge.

It's the same as when all of a sudden everyone realized how OP polyacid smoke was.

 

If enough people git too gud a call for nerfing is inevitable, action and reaction and all that.

 

[Kyet]

 

Proposal for a new Guideline to be added to Geneticist Code Green Job SOP:

 

The Geneticist is not permitted to leave the Genetics Lab with combat-worthy Genemods (such as Telekinesis or Hulk) without express permission from the Research Director

 

 

Seeing this posted makes me sad.

 

Just a few days ago, I had the specific thought "well, at least, despite all the whining about genetics, we don't have that shitty rule that genetics can't take their genemods outside the lab".

 

I play RD a lot, and genetics not at all - therefore I'm often the person who gets called on to fix issues with genetics being stupid. The other day I had to re-humanize a genetics guy who managed to monkey himself AND corrupt his "clean" SE so he couldn't fix himself easily AND leave his ID behind so he was locked out of his own lab.

So, you'd expect me to be in favor of this SOP change. Yet, I am not. Not at all.

 

The way I see it, genetic powers are like cars. They are incredibly useful. Incredibly powerful tools. We don't take away everyones' right to drive just because a few people cause car crashes. Most people use their cars responsibly. Most genetics staff use their powers responsibly. Yet, we're considering heavily restricting it for everyone simply because of the behavior of a minority.

 

I highly doubt the people that run around smashing things with hulk, etc, are going to think "oh, I was going to smash people with hulk/TK/whatnot, but I guess since it is against SOP now I guess I won't". Those people don't give a damn about SOP, and adding more rules to SOP isn't going to matter to them one bit. Most of the newbies who do this sort of thing, I'm fairly sure, have never read SOP, not even once, and probably don't even know it exists. All this change will do is annoy and limit the people who are trying to have fun responsibly. In short: the only people who will be stopped from misusing genetic powers by this are the people who are already responsible with them. It won't matter to the irresponsible people.

 

At least it only applies on code green, and thus doesn't apply most of the time, since most of the time, we're at blue.

 

Most gene mods are invisible, too. Nobody is going to force a genetics researcher into a DNA scanner to check their DNA. Unless they actually use those combat mods, nobody will know they have them. In practice, this makes it a "don't walk around with the few visible combat mods, like hulk/TK, on green, unless you can either disguise them or you're confident the RD won't care" rule. I guess that's kinda useful, in that it encourages RDs to demote genetic researchers who totally ignore the rules and are likely to cause issues. I feel like that's a band-aid fix, however. The underlying problem is that many RDs don't demand the demotion of genetics staff no matter how badly they screw up, and a better fix for that would to make sure head roles, all head roles, know they can, should, and are expected to demote staff of theirs who violate SOP in ways that creates problems for the station and/or harms other crew. Yeah, that's already part of SOP, but I feel most command staff don't follow it. I get the feeling we're using the wrong tool for the job - we're putting all this effort into updating SOP when the existing SOP is often ignored. What makes us think that the updated SOP will be followed any more closely?

Sad thing is, I'm not sure what would make heads of staff more effective at handling this sort of thing. Perhaps a more detailed "on join" message when they spawn, explaining exactly what their responsibilities are? Frequent reminders in-game are better than walls of text on the wiki.

 

While I'm all for IC solutions to IC problems there are many, many, many rounds where it is impossible to discipline a department head who goes against SOP because it will just make the situation worse.

 

Very true. Punishing people for violating SOP/etc is simply not viable sometimes. Late-night, for example, I often have to choose whether I want to demote one of my two sec officers for fucking up, or not. Yeah, they screwed up, but if I do it I lose half my sec force, and if there are security issues I just can't afford to do that.

Really if a Department Head is not an antag they should not be complicit in allowing their department to cause major issues on board the station. If they do so repeatedly they should be banned from the position.

 

 

Banning might be a little too harsh. "Be good at your job" seems like too much to expect from everyone.

However, I would support the idea of "soft jobbans", which cap their preference for that job to "low".

IE someone softbanned from command jobs could still get those jobs, but they could never set their preference for them to anything above "low", so if anyone else wanted them, they'd get them first. Essentially, they wouldn't be banned from having the job, they just wouldn't be NT's preferred candidates for it.

 

I know it's not a popular opinion but I, personally, would be all for whitelisting command positions so that only approved players can play them. If no approved players are on then the position can go to someone who isn't whitelisted. I really feel that would cut down on some of the problems we've seen with Department Heads faffing about and letting their departments go to shit.

 

I hate whitelisting with a passion. Yeah, it reduces the # of bad players who fill that job slot - but it also massively reduces the number of good players too. Whitelisting a job might remove perhaps 75% of all players who would otherwise play that job from playing it - and the vast majority of those will be roughly average. You're removing far more good players, than bad players.

A better idea would be to convert the "days played" time lock for jobs into an "hours played". Or even a "hours played in certain jobs". IE: if you register an account, wait 30 days, and play, you haven't unlocked every job with zero actual playtime. To unlock HoS you'd need a certain number of actual hours on the server, or ideally, a certain number of hours actually playing sec officer/detective. That would drastically reduce the number of unqualified heads whilst not creating any additional paperwork/admin hassle.

It would also have other benefits, too. If there was a method for accessing that data, you could make stats on which jobs you play, see who plays certain jobs (which would be great for gathering job-related feedback in coding matters), and look at things like progression (after job X, what is the most likely next job a player will play as?).

 

[SkyPing]

 

Proposal for a new Guideline to be added to Geneticist Code Green Job SOP:

 

The Geneticist is not permitted to leave the Genetics Lab with combat-worthy Genemods (such as Telekinesis or Hulk) without express permission from the Research Director

 

The underlying problem is that many RDs don't demand the demotion of genetics staff no matter how badly they screw up, and a better fix for that would to make sure head roles, all head roles, know they can, should, and are expected to demote staff of theirs who violate SOP in ways that creates problems for the station and/or harms other crew. Yeah, that's already part of SOP, but I feel most command staff don't follow it. I get the feeling we're using the wrong tool for the job - we're putting all this effort into updating SOP when the existing SOP is often ignored. What makes us think that the updated SOP will be followed any more closely?

 

Sad thing is, I'm not sure what would make heads of staff more effective at handling this sort of thing. Perhaps a more detailed "on join" message when they spawn, explaining exactly what their responsibilities are? Frequent reminders in-game are better than walls of text on the wiki.

 

Back from auditions and TZO already says it, niiice.

 

Yeah, this basically sums it up for me. However, back onto the MAIN topic, I still think that the combat thing should apply on green.

 

The way I see it, genetic powers are like cars. They are incredibly useful. Incredibly powerful tools. We don't take away everyones' right to drive just because a few people cause car crashes. Most people use their cars responsibly. Most genetics staff use their powers responsibly. Yet, we're considering heavily restricting it for everyone simply because of the behavior of a minority.

 

That's a decent comparison, yeah, but the difference is that cars are useful for certain things, namely transport. Things such as cold resistance, long jump, heat resistance, and remote view all have certain uses for the crew-mates, but the problem and my main argument is...

 

Power's which are explicitly used for combat (Hulk, Super-Fart, etc.) are like guns. I see absolutely no reason why walking around with hulk on is different than holding an active stun baton in your right hand.

 

Using Hulk as an example again; even competent geneticists can accidentally destroy something with hulk on. It happens. A miss click is more than enough to destroy a wall or table. Most old time geneticists such as Jacob Ryals (of course I have to bring up Jacob's name again) simply just keep the hulk gene in an S.E. in their pocket, or holstered, for when he needs it.

 

We already have laws that forbid security guards to walk normally with their stun batons upholstered on green, and because of how much damage hulk can cause even by accident, as well as things such as super fart, combat powers should get the exact same treatment.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

I'm of the opinion everyone is knee-jerking due to salty bias and it was fine how we had it before. It's so incredibly easy to counter a rogue geneticist, easier then everyone thinks, you need 1 mutadone shot. One. Uno. Singular syringe applied at safe range.

 

Any time you try to lock someone into their work space, I'm sorry, but what the fuck? You are actively telling people "You did your job, so now you don't get to RP anymore, because I don't like the job you play."

 

Let's go over this:

 

"Hulk can be super easily acquired like 10 minutes into shift."

Absolutely. It also could be your sole genetics goal and you never even find it in the average 2 hours a round takes. RNG melting into more RNG. It'd be like if RnD, everytime you tried to print something with the protolathe, there's a chance the protolathe would use up the resources but malfunction and just do fucking nothing. And if you say "But Genetics doesn't use a resource that's not a fair comparison."

 

Then you have never had a random mutation fuck up one of the powers you DID have over DAC and not had to spend another 5 minutes wrangling with more RNG to get that one back in place.

 

"It's OP, breaking walls, stun immunity, like what the fuck?"

Mutadone. Syringe gun. RnD can even print RAPID Syringe guns for en masse dispersal to the crew and mutadoen is a literally harmless and even beneficial chemical, so also distributing it if needs me, is pretty harmless. Very mild brute damage infliction I believe.

You have the tools to stop this already on hand. you just never bother to USE them or to talk to the people with equipment.

 

I have been a geneticist when my partner was a rogue one and ran around with Hulk. Not once was I talked to about what I was doing or if I could help, Security just busted in and mutadone'd me and then arrested me. Instead of saying "Counter hulk with hulk!" or "Can you give us X-ray to help catch this prick" They tried to solo the world, and got stomped.

 

"But we have laws to stop Security from striding out with guns in hand, they should get the same treatment."

Security also didn't spend almost an hour into a round building that tazer that they then get told "If you ever leave brig with that gun, you're fired and arrested." They get it from the jump, free of charge. Genetics had to play the slots and see if they luck into having it at 5 minutes or 125 minutes. 'Skillz' no, but neither is security, it's who clicks first and who has the lesser ping so they can react faster.

 

TL;DR: IF you're going to push for such a heavy handed, and outright oppressive change, think first how YOU'D like it. This entire topic has been an endless stream of bias and in some cases outright salt. Think about how -you'd- enjoy it first. "WELL I JUST WOULDN'T DO IT!" is not an answer, because sure. Maybe not as genetics. But what about when you play Sec? Or a Doctor? or Science?

Imagine if you couldn't take any sentient gold slime mob out of xeno bio? Which DOEs happen a lot. You basically kill ANY reason for it to exist, and fuck over a LOT of players in the process because you just "Don't want to have to handle it", tough nuggets that's the job.

 

I don't wanna have to handle potentially rogue mechs either, and I don't get to tel lthe roboticist he can never set foot out of his lab without any mech ever. (And before you point up new robotics SoP, you ever loaded an Ody ((Which is unaffected by military restriction)) with some of the non medical shit before? Because let me tell you, that gets to be !!FUN!!.)

 

[SomanB]

 

While I'm all for IC solutions to IC problems there are many, many, many rounds where it is impossible to discipline a department head who goes against SOP because it will just make the situation worse.

 

As an example the other day we had a Cult round and the HoS and Blueshield (neither of them cultists) arrested the Captain and force-fed him holy water while his loyalty implant was still clearly visible with any SecHUD. Because Security was short-staffed and there were a number of other problems popping up even once the Cult was more or less eliminated there was just no chance for us to enact any sort of formal reprimand much less removal of the HoS from his position.

 

In situations like that, where a Department Head is blatantly violating either SOP or direct, reasonable orders from a clearly uncompromised Captain, it should warrant at least a talking to from an Admin, or at most a brief jobban so they understand that such positions should not be undertaken lightly.

 

The same should be true for RDs who allow the handing out of illegal implants or allow the building of combat mechs without authorization from the HoS or Captain (barring Code Blue/extreme emergency).

 

Really if a Department Head is not an antag they should not be complicit in allowing their department to cause major issues on board the station. If they do so repeatedly they should be banned from the position.

 

I know it's not a popular opinion but I, personally, would be all for whitelisting command positions so that only approved players can play them. If no approved players are on then the position can go to someone who isn't whitelisted. I really feel that would cut down on some of the problems we've seen with Department Heads faffing about and letting their departments go to shit.

 

 

 

SoP is IC only. SoP is IC.

 

I've considered it for awhile now, and the day you start making SoP violations OOC actionable with job bans, is the day Security specifically goes straight to hell.

 

 

Brig someone for theft when it should have been petty theft, job ban. Drag someone to the brig in cuffs before seeing if they'll co-operate, job ban. Walk into a department without asking the department head permission....yup, another job ban.

 

 

Sec, of all departments, is one of the biggest for SoP violations, be they intentional, unintentional, or "I had a good reason".

 

[Keroman]

 

Soman I would only advocate a jobban (actually I liked tzo's "soft" jobban idea) for command positions and AI positions, the ones we make people wait 30 days or so to play when they first join the server. Also it would have to be only in clear cases of someone who's just not doing their job, or who are actively a detriment to the station.

 

Regular crew faffing about and breaking laws or SOP isn't something that should be jobbannable at all ever.

 

[Knightedskull]

 

well, appears I was the only one to vote "other".

 

It's not going to be easy to detect any combat biomods except hulk which is the main problem.

It's always hulk seen as the big problem let's just restrict it inside their lab and authorized handouts to security by the RD AND HoS.

 

[sdtwbaj]

 

While I'm all for IC solutions to IC problems there are many, many, many rounds where it is impossible to discipline a department head who goes against SOP because it will just make the situation worse.

 

As an example the other day we had a Cult round and the HoS and Blueshield (neither of them cultists) arrested the Captain and force-fed him holy water while his loyalty implant was still clearly visible with any SecHUD. Because Security was short-staffed and there were a number of other problems popping up even once the Cult was more or less eliminated there was just no chance for us to enact any sort of formal reprimand much less removal of the HoS from his position.

 

In situations like that, where a Department Head is blatantly violating either SOP or direct, reasonable orders from a clearly uncompromised Captain, it should warrant at least a talking to from an Admin, or at most a brief jobban so they understand that such positions should not be undertaken lightly.

 

The same should be true for RDs who allow the handing out of illegal implants or allow the building of combat mechs without authorization from the HoS or Captain (barring Code Blue/extreme emergency).

 

Really if a Department Head is not an antag they should not be complicit in allowing their department to cause major issues on board the station. If they do so repeatedly they should be banned from the position.

 

I know it's not a popular opinion but I, personally, would be all for whitelisting command positions so that only approved players can play them. If no approved players are on then the position can go to someone who isn't whitelisted. I really feel that would cut down on some of the problems we've seen with Department Heads faffing about and letting their departments go to shit.

 

 

 

SoP is IC only. SoP is IC.

 

I've considered it for awhile now, and the day you start making SoP violations OOC actionable with job bans, is the day Security specifically goes straight to hell.

 

 

Brig someone for theft when it should have been petty theft, job ban. Drag someone to the brig in cuffs before seeing if they'll co-operate, job ban. Walk into a department without asking the department head permission....yup, another job ban.

 

 

Sec, of all departments, is one of the biggest for SoP violations, be they intentional, unintentional, or "I had a good reason".

Ive been job banned for SoP violation, so I'd argue that it's already actionable.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

ATTENTION: GUIDELINE HAS BEEN MODIFIED, CHECK AGAIN AND PLEASE RE-VOTE IF REQUIRED.

[Shadeykins]

 

As TK is almost exclusively used to assault people in a typically petty manner and cryokinesis (AFAIK) doesn't proc an attacker message and tell you who's responsible, I preferred the old guideline.

 

Either that, or have TK and Cryo proc messages, IE: a TK'd item could be shift-clicked and would tell you who's abusing the object.

 

[SomanB]

 

I'm going to stick with my original idea.

 

If genetics (or any crew really), wants combat genemods like hulk, they aren't permitted to leave the lab unless they have a mutadone chemical implant set.

 

Still give an instant shutdown of gene mods if someone goes shitter, but doesn't restrict genetics and such to being stuck in their lab if they want to experiment.

 

[Doukan]

 

It's genetics research right? The specific hulk reference makes muh immursion wither away.

Nothing unlivable, though I'd reword it to "not permitted to leave the lab with severe body altering modifications/meta human mutations/Combat genes/something something not specific hulk reference"

 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Guest

[davidchan]

 

I'm going to stick with my original idea.

 

If genetics (or any crew really), wants combat genemods like hulk, they aren't permitted to leave the lab unless they have a mutadone chemical implant set.

 

Still give an instant shutdown of gene mods if someone goes shitter, but doesn't restrict genetics and such to being stuck in their lab if they want to experiment.

 

Basically this, there are lots of powers with no valid reason to use outside of combat. Genetics roaming the halls with all their powers active is akin to RnD roaming the halls with stun revolvers and AEGs.