ZomgPonies as the "Singuloth Knight"

[unmovedmover]

 

ZomgPonies as the "Singuloth Knight"

 

Admin complaint

Date of Occurrence: 3/6/16

Admin Key: ZomgPonies

 

My Account of Events

 

Toward the end of a vampire round, before the emergency shuttle had departed from the station, admin ZomgPonies took control of a mob he called the "Singuloth Knight." As this Singuloth Knight, ZomgPonies received a player's singularity generator and activated it under the pretense of tribute to lord singuloth. The player (Yakihikraehkehk) who gave the singularity generator to ZomgPonies was not an antagonist. ZomgPonies then took control of the singularity and destroyed much of the station and killed many players at will, including at least one antagonist (Vince Stall) who was trying to escape from the station. In the process, ZomgPonies released the Tesla engine, which killed many more players, including myself (Davis McJones). The Tesla quickly moved toward the emergency shuttle, prompting an early departure.

 

What Ought to be Done?

 

Harmless admin shenanigans can be fun and often enrich a round. One of my memorable experiences on Paradise was encountering a magical crab which yearned for life on the beach. I reported this sighting to the captain and he engaged in diplomacy with the crab, which eventually led to the crab being sent through the gateway. This encounter was hilarious and managed to be enriching without interfering with or ruining other players' rounds.

What ZomgPonies did as a Singuloth Knight was quite the contrary. His actions interfered greatly with every player's round, and ruined the experiences of many. At least one antagonist (Vince Stall) had his Vampire round cut short by a spawned singularity.

I say that ZomgPonies' actions are a clear example of so called adminbus, and he ought to be reprimanded for it, and reminded of the proper role of admins on Paradise.

 

Relevant Screen-Caps

 

Sightings of the Singuloth Knight

 

Singularity Spawned

 

ZomgPonies Controlling the Singularity

 

After the Round, ZomgPonies' Response

*A player who was not an antag

 

Full Logs Cited:

1- http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=80631928595380897047

2- http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=60252403756108148522

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by Guest

[ZomgPonies]

 

1. A player gave a Singulo Knight the Singulo Gen. This is a fact.

2. The singulo wasn't controlled by admins starting at stage 2, it seems it's slightly bugged and moving around faster than it should on it's own. At stage 1 it seemed broken so I moved it around locally in the engine room to see what was up.

3. You're cherry-picking the logs you want to pick, Gordan specifically said later on he really didn't care, and you're ignoring a bunch of people who found it hilarious

4. The shuttle had docked, there was 3 minutes left in the round.

5. The singulo starting stage 2 was moving on it's own, but seemed to be moving faster than normal.

 

While your admin complaint is incredibly well formatted, you seem a little misguided in your intentions.

 

ZomgPonies then took control of the singularity and destroyed much of the station and killed many players at will

Really? This seems like quite the extrapolation based on the information you have available.

 

[unmovedmover]

 

Thank you for your prompt reply.

 

1. A player gave a Singulo Knight the Singulo Gen. This is a fact.

Whether or not your actions as the Singuloth Knight were valid is the topic of contention.

 

3. You're cherry-picking the logs you want to pick,

I included the full logs at the end of my post, which can be downloaded here:

1- http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=806 ... 5380897047

2- http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=602 ... 6108148522

 

4. The shuttle had docked, there was 3 minutes left in the round.

I made note of this fact at the beginning of my complaint. The emergency shuttle had not yet departed from the station. The round was still in progress.

 

you seem a little misguided in your intentions.

What gives you this sense? Do you feel I am misconstruing the events? Please clarify.

 

ZomgPonies then took control of the singularity and destroyed much of the station and killed many players at will

Really? This seems like quite the extrapolation based on the information you have available.

I did not realize that you stopped controlling the singularity after it entered stage 2. However, even only taking into account the damage caused by the stage 1 singularity, which you did control, my earlier statement remains true.

 

[ZomgPonies]

 

I did not realize that you stopped controlling the singularity after it entered stage 2. However, even only taking into account the damage caused by the stage 1 singularity, which you did control, my earlier statement remains true.

The only damage the stage 1 singularity did was to the engine room itself. That in and of itself never put the crew in danger. Therefore your earlier statement is in fact incorrect.

 

I say that ZomgPonies' actions are a clear example of so called adminbus, and he ought to be reprimanded for it, and reminded of the proper role of admins on Paradise.

I'm sorry that you got caught in the blast of the released Tesla and that the situation ruined the end of the round for you. However the appearance of a Singulo Knight was an event, not adminbuss. Part of the 'proper' role of admins on Paradise is to create interesting situations and scenarios for the players, which this was one of. The fact that you got caught in the fallout of that situation is unfortunate but far from unheard of.

 

[unmovedmover]

I maintain that spawning a singularity and releasing the tesla before round-end for no reason other than "glory to singuloth!" is clear adminbus, and I await the opinions of other staff members.

[Regen]

While both sides has valid points, I believe that spawning a singularity for the sake of some event happening in the background of the round, which included very little of the rest of the players should not warrant not just one, but two critical engine failures which results very often in the death of a lot of people, including at least one antag.

[Keroman]

 

I play Yakihikraekhekh, the Vox that gave the singularity generator to the Singulo Knight, I figured it was the end of the round and probably harmless to help the guy out. I did give him directions to only use proper containment when activating the generator, but I admit I didn't fully believe he would follow those directions so I wasn't entirely surprised when the singulo got loose.

 

Sorry if I ruined anyone's round!

 

[Coldflame]

 

I wasn't present, so I'm not sure I should be posting here, but my two cents is that admins shouldn't really be creating 'events' that are pretty much unavoidable and indiscriminately lethal with no discernible addition of roleplay or gameplay to the round, especially when it's not an extended round. The round's not over until the shuttle docks at CC- this should apply to admins as much as it does to players.

 

Go ahead and delete this if it goes against the rules for this section, but I can't find any rules regarding it.

 

[davidchan]

 

Can't say I was in this round but this definitely does not strike me as an event that was occuring in the round or as a means to spice it up. Given the logs presented, it just looks like ponies was bored and caused havoc for the sake of havoc, not player enjoyment.

 

@Ponies, I ask how did you communicate that an event was in progress? An admin spawned mob doesn't really qualify. What was the intent of the event? The shuttle was inbound, so it's not likely it would speed up the end of round, nor was it really a round ending event such as Xenos or Deathsquad. The outcome, as presented before seems to state that all you did was prematurely end the round for many players unaware or univolved with the event, including an antagonist.

 

I've always felt that events should only happen in the following scenarios.

 

A) The event is declared during the round set up and the MOTD is updated to reflect the event status for late join players.

 

B) A vote is called and a majority of the players vote for an event. The actual event doesn't have to be declared, just the intent to start one.

 

C) During an extended round with very little happening and the crew getting restless and complaining. Where possible, should be preceded by a vote.

 

[ZomgPonies]

 

Admins have -never- have to declare events ahead of time, especially if said events are a surprise or should remain secret in any way.

 

I admit I prob shouldn't have released a sing, but I am absolutely against your recommendations davidchan.

 

[Coldflame]

 

I said this before, but I'll say it again in the interest of full disclosure- I wasn't playing this round, I don't know what happened beyond the events stated in this thread, and I'm unaware of the context.

 

From what I've gathered, the 'event' had no substance or structure to it. It seems like you spawned yourself in as a singuloth knight, set up a singularity without containment intentionally, then actively took steps to ensure it was released. As you stated earlier:

 

part of the 'proper' role of admins on Paradise is to create interesting situations and scenarios for the players, which this was one of. The fact that you got caught in the fallout of that situation is unfortunate but far from unheard of.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm cherrypicking here, and I'll reiterate I'm unaware of the context, but from what I can gather this event was far from 'interesting'. You spawned in as a singulo knight, got the generator, set up the singularity, and released it; aside from the interaction involved in getting the generator, I don't see what it added to the round. I'm reluctant to make a comparison, but if a griefer had joined as an engineer, set up a singularity, and released it, the impact would have been the same for eighty percent of the people involved.

 

An event that seriously impacts the development of a thus far standard round, especially to the extent where several people are left with the unsatisfying, annoying, immersion-breaking ending of a unjustified and unavoidable death, should certainly have been started only with at least some level of agreement by the players, and probably shouldn't have been done at all the way it was done.

 

Given a mention of active antagonists, I also doubt the round had been completely silent for two hours and warranted an injection of 'action' for the closing minutes.

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by Guest

[Regen]

 

Can't say I was in this round but this definitely does not strike me as an event that was occuring in the round or as a means to spice it up. Given the logs presented, it just looks like ponies was bored and caused havoc for the sake of havoc, not player enjoyment.

 

@Ponies, I ask how did you communicate that an event was in progress? An admin spawned mob doesn't really qualify. What was the intent of the event? The shuttle was inbound, so it's not likely it would speed up the end of round, nor was it really a round ending event such as Xenos or Deathsquad. The outcome, as presented before seems to state that all you did was prematurely end the round for many players unaware or univolved with the event, including an antagonist.

 

I've always felt that events should only happen in the following scenarios.

 

A) The event is declared during the round set up and the MOTD is updated to reflect the event status for late join players.

 

B) A vote is called and a majority of the players vote for an event. The actual event doesn't have to be declared, just the intent to start one.

 

C) During an extended round with very little happening and the crew getting restless and complaining. Where possible, should be preceded by a vote.

 

Outside of this threads topic, and not going to happen

 

[unmovedmover]

 

As it has been over 24 hours since the last post, and no staff members have suggested a resolution to this complaint, I would like to offer my thoughts on how this dispute should be solved.

 

In my view, admins should be subject to the same degree of disciplinary scrutiny as players are. Punishments for admins ought to be proportionate to what a player would receive having committed a comparable violation.

 

I think Coldflame's analogy comparing ZomgPonies to a griefer who deliberately released the singularity is apposite. What would be the punishment for a player who deliberately released the singularity? My guess is a ban between 5 and 7 days. Perhaps ZomgPonies ought to be given a 5 to 7 day suspension from his admin-duties?

 

That would be enough time to reflect on what is appropriate admin-intervention and to review this post: http://nanotrasen.se/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1674

 

[necaladun]

 

Treating this as a griefer who released the singularity is not at all appropriate. This is not the case.

 

24 hours is not a particularly long time, either. Please remember that the admins have lives (well, some of them), and are all in different time zones. When we are able to discuss things, there are priorities in what to discuss with the limited time.

 

[unmovedmover]

 

Treating this as a griefer who released the singularity is not at all appropriate. This is not the case.

All analogies fall out at some point, but I think it is an apt comparison. As Coldflame pointed out, the effect on the round would have been largely the same had a griefer released the singularity.

 

[necaladun]

 

It's not an apt comparison, because a griefer does so to cause maximum destruction and to piss people off.

 

From what I understand it's different because:

1: It wasn't done with the intention of griefing, or the intention of breaking rules.

2: It was done very close to the end of the round, minimizing destruction.

3: It was done with the intention of making the escape to the shuttle more dramatic, risky, and exciting.

 

I see no reason to treat this as grief. If Zomgponies were intending grief, it'd be a -lot- more dramatic and interfering with the round, even without admin commands. Nor would a griefer releasing the sing get a ban of 5-7 days. It'd be a permaban.

 

This is also not just straight out adminbuse, as the only usage I can see of admin commands was the spawning of singuloth knight armour - something that had very little, if anything, to do with the situation.

 

It also appears the releasing of the Tesla was unintentional, and caused more death and destruction than intended - I'll ask Ponies to clarify here.

 

You're presupposing here that Ponies set out with the intention to grief, which is not the case at all. Nor were admin powers used inappropriately - in fact, were admin powers used moreso here, there would have been less destruction. Possessing the sing and deleting the Tesla would have been a much better way of controlling the situation. Possibly more immersion breaking if people noticed they're being spared, however.

 

I'll discuss the risk/danger levels of events with Ponies and what we prefer.

 

I don't see anything here however that can be constituted as breaking the rules here in regards to the event, and rather a mistake with the extent of destruction resulting from the release - specifically of the Tesla - rather than intended.

 

[unmovedmover]

 

It was done with the intention of making the escape to the shuttle more dramatic, risky, and exciting.

I'm not convinced that this was his intention. Even so, this was unnecessary. As Coldflame has noted, the "injection" of action into the round was uncalled for, as there were still active antagonists.

 

This is also not just straight out adminbuse, as the only usage I can see of admin commands was the spawning of singuloth knight armour - something that had very little, if anything, to do with the situation.

The presence of ZomgPonies as the Singuloth Knight was integral to the situation. ZomgPonies was only able to assume the role of Singuloth Knight due to his admin privileges.

 

You're presupposing here that Ponies set out with the intention to grief, which is not the case at all.

I don't assume anything about ZomgPonies' intentions. On the contrary, you're assuming that ZomgPonies had only the best intentions. That is questionable.

 

a mistake with the extent of destruction resulting from the release - specifically of the Tesla - rather than intended

Hardly an unforeseeable "mistake." The singularity was spawned directly above the engine room. I'm not convinced that ZomgPonies wasn't trying to cause as much damage as possible.

 

in fact, were admin powers used moreso here, there would have been less destruction. Possessing the sing and deleting the Tesla would have been a much better way of controlling the situation

Indeed. The fact that ZomgPonies did not do either of those things strengthens the claim that his aim was to destroy as much as possible.

 

Possibly more immersion breaking if people noticed they're being spared, however.

Really? You're appealing to immersion while defending an admin playing the role of a "Singuloth Knight?"

 

Overall your argument seems clamorous in its defense of ZomgPonies. I hope that a less partial admin will join this discussion.

 

[ZomgPonies]

 

1. You don't get to dictate rules or punishments.

2. Singuloth Knights are integrated in our lore, if you'd been a more veteran player you'd already know that.

3. Assuming that 2 headmins would go out of their way to ruin player's enjoyment of the game and then cover each other's back makes me think you are just trying to stir shit up.

4. An event happened. It wasn't maybe the best event, but it was still an event, not grief. Get over it.

 

[sdtwbaj]

 

I can't say I care for an admin releasing the singularity without giving the entire crew some roleplay leading to it. From what I gather, it was RP for the generator, then "guys lol a singulo is out".

 

While I don't see it as grief in that respect, it was a poorly executed event at best.

 

[unmovedmover]

 

1. You don't get to dictate rules or punishments.

My earlier post about potential resolutions to this complaint was merely a suggestion.

 

3. Assuming that 2 headmins would go out of their way to ruin player's enjoyment of the game and then cover each other's back makes me think you are just trying to stir shit up.

I would like to assume that you did not go out of your way to destroy anyone's enjoyment. That being said, Necaladun's post did strike me as an attempt to cover your back.

 

4. An event happened. It wasn't maybe the best event, but it was still an event, not grief. Get over it.

Spawning a singularity and releasing the tesla engine during the last few minutes of a round under the pretense of an "event" is irresponsible. Whether we say that your actions were part of an event or grief is less important than whether or not they were valid, which I maintain is not the case.

 

[necaladun]

 

I've talked with Ponies about this a bit, as much as our schedules and timezones allow, and I'm convinced he was not trying to grief or cause as much destruction as possible.

 

My defense here is not at all clamorous, as I've said he made mistakes. He's admitted them himself.

 

It is -very- important as to whether something is grief of an event. If the intent was simply to grief, then a permaban would be warranted.

 

My comments on immersion were merely an aside as to the problems that can happen when someone does something in such as way as to spare players - it runs the risk of showing that it is an illusion of danger, and has no real risk.

 

A poorly executed event is by no means rulebreaking or worthy of suspension. Feedback on it will be taken into consideration with the clarifying of event guidelines for admins that will be written over the next few weeks.

 

[DisreputableSquid]

 

I was part of this round, if very late to it, so I thought I could share some input on it. This appears to have just been, as ZomgPonies has admitted, a poorly executed event that got out of control and unfortunately negatively affected the round. I think they could have thought the event through a bit better before executing it, and perhaps there might have been more that could have been done to prevent the Tesla's escape, but in the end it was just a mistake, and we all make mistakes. Punishing mistakes, especially when they have been owned up to, won't stop situations like this from happening again. All that it will do is discourage people from running events at all, and I think that is the exact opposite of what we would want.

 

Hopefully all the feedback from this will be taken into consideration and if we are lucky we can prevent these types of accidents in the future. If a review of the Admin's Event Guide could help avoid these situations going forward, then id put my support behind that.

 

[necaladun]

 

Hopefully all the feedback from this will be taken into consideration and if we are lucky we can prevent these types of accidents in the future. If a review of the Admin's Event Guide could help avoid these situations going forward, then id put my support behind that.

 

 

This is very much in my plans for the next week or two, as some admins seem very scared to run events for fear of this kinda of thing, while others may lack the caution.

 

Thank you for your input on this - and to the others who have put their input in, especially those in the round. Often complaints devolve into a lynch mob mentality - which is partially why we closed player complaints off - but in this case it's been nothing but a good insight into how people feel about these things.

 

Whether or not you feel it was right or wrong, justified, fun, or not, I'd like to hear from people on this, and encourage general feedback, so I'll leave this open awhile. You will not be judged or punished for your opinion - although expressing it with excess negativity (or positivity and brownnosing), salt, etc, will get you judged. There will be of course no punishment unless it turns into outright abuse (Only I get to do that to ponies ).

 

[Tars]

 

Can't say I was in this round but this definitely does not strike me as an event that was occuring in the round or as a means to spice it up. Given the logs presented, it just looks like ponies was bored and caused havoc for the sake of havoc, not player enjoyment.

 

@Ponies, I ask how did you communicate that an event was in progress? An admin spawned mob doesn't really qualify. What was the intent of the event? The shuttle was inbound, so it's not likely it would speed up the end of round, nor was it really a round ending event such as Xenos or Deathsquad. The outcome, as presented before seems to state that all you did was prematurely end the round for many players unaware or univolved with the event, including an antagonist.

 

I've always felt that events should only happen in the following scenarios.

 

A) The event is declared during the round set up and the MOTD is updated to reflect the event status for late join players.

 

B) A vote is called and a majority of the players vote for an event. The actual event doesn't have to be declared, just the intent to start one.

 

C) During an extended round with very little happening and the crew getting restless and complaining. Where possible, should be preceded by a vote.

 

Outside of this threads topic, and not going to happen

 

Yet coldflame was just discouraged from giving his opinion on general feedback and about the matter in this topic.

 

[necaladun]

 

That was 2 days ago, before it was called for, by someone not in the round, by a different admin.

 

Now it is being actively called for. Preferably by people in the round. I've made it clear that I've seen no rulebreaking or need for punishment here, but what I do need now is people's feedback.