Make upgrading the EXPERIMENTOR actually good

[ProperPants]

 

The EXPERIMENTOR, hate it or hate it or be the single person who likes it, has one feature that "shines" above all else (in the same way a wet turd shines more than a dry turd). This feature is to raise the tech level of some items by one level. This is necessary, and with the science update coming soon even more necessary, to get max research ever. Let's put aside the argument of science doesn't need to max research every shift for a moment. Soon, it will be impossible to max research without the EXPERIMENTOR. The feature that can upgrade tech levels and allow research to progress is considered, technically, a failure. If the machine "fails" you get a better tech on the item. Upgrading the parts of the machine ends up reducing the chance of failure - thus reducing the chance of the only good thing it can do. I propose that upgrading it increases the chance of failure, or that the BLOODGOD.exe (the event that upgrades tech levels) no longer be considered a failure.

 

This does not change science's ability to max. With the EXPERIMENTOR as it currently is, it takes 100 tries in the RNGsus lottery and the sacrifice of the same item 30 times before it gets upgraded. Fixing this would make it take fewer tries and fewer items wasted. This would just make it so you don't need the patience of a Tibetan monk to get the upgraded tech level. Getting higher research through the EXPERIMENTOR will happen regardless of whether or not anyone heeds this suggestion.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Blood sacrifice is already brokenly OP, as is; even if upgrading the machine actually makes things happen more, the blood sacrifice isn't going to be in that list--because it's meant to be rare and chancey to get--not a "press button, win" path to victory.

 

R&D needs to get used to the concept and idea of not being able to necessarily build and construct every single item in the universe available to them--some things are meant to be rare or very difficult to get (like Phazons)---the concept of there being a "max" science is something people need to shake off (and is now gone).

 

Mechs have teleporters you can build for them if you can hit tech level 10 bluespace. Just because that's a thing doesn't mean there necessarily needs to be a "press button, receive victory" path to get them.

 

[Scrat]

The fact remains that UPGRADING a machine should make it somewhat better at achieving a more favorable result, not less. If you did not want blood sacrifice chance to be increased with upgrades, at the very least do not DECREASE it.

[Spacemanspark]

 

The fact remains that UPGRADING a machine should make it somewhat better at achieving a more favorable result, not less. If you did not want blood sacrifice chance to be increased with upgrades, at the very least do not DECREASE it.

I do agree with the recent science changes, but I also agree with this.

 

[ProperPants]

 

Just because that's a thing doesn't mean there necessarily needs to be a "press button, receive victory" path to get them.

 

But it's still "press button get victory." It's just "press button for 20 minutes straight, get victory." Your reference of the Phazon is perfect - if you want to prevent max science each round, add in some kind of random event research item. I promise, it still can be maxed every round, and the only reason it won't happen is because people won't be bothered to click "Irradiate" 100 times in a row while sitting in a room full of corgis, cats, and ice cream cones.

 

If Blood Sacrifice is "brokenly OP" as you say (it can raise tech levels by one, for those who don't know, if God bestows you the great gift of it even happening), then why don't you or someone else come up with a way to balance it? I for one don't need to come up with a way to nerf it, since I actually believe it's phenomenally underpowered. In fact, what would make it more reasonable is that the EXPERIMENTOR starts off unable to do the Blood Sacrifice and upgrading it makes it progressively more and more likely. The chance with max parts doesn't need to be high, it just needs to become slightly more likely. You always stand at the defense of the EXPERIMENTOR, but how does it improve player experience? Just because it exists doesn't mean it should never be changed - it's unfun. I hate it, Cid Squishings hates it, KEVIN hates it, Vince Stall and Jack Price only use it to get freedom implants, Yuki Frost probably doesn't like it. Everyone else seems to be neutral or doesn't bother with it. You are the only person who actually defends it while at least three people, and probably more if you went out of your way to ask, would gladly see it heavily modified or removed. People who play science - or any department for that matter - like to have fun, and the god-awful RNG machine is not fun. It spoils player experience, and people are slowly going to get completely fed up with it now that it's mandatory.

 

EDIT 1: Grammar

EDIT 2: Adding the reasons I edited

 

Edited March 11, 2016 by Guest

[davidchan]

The blood sacrifice is the only reason for the Experimentor to even exsist, tbh. Don't increase the odds of it happening, but have upgrading the machine remove the chances for the object to get destroyed ('Runtime error' or 'Ian-ized')

[ProperPants]

 

The blood sacrifice is the only reason for the Experimentor to even exsist, tbh. Don't increase the odds of it happening, but have upgrading the machine remove the chances for the object to get destroyed ('Runtime error' or 'Ian-ized')

 

That's also a perfectly good idea. Then you just don't have to waste as many objects to the EXPERIMENTOR, but it's still as likely for nothing to happen. Honestly, this would be a phenomenal solution. Just to add, the object can also get destroyed by becoming a piece of food or some goop. Maybe (strong fucking maybe. Fudge the numbers if you like, but the concept is incredible) every upgrade reduces the chance of all those happening as such:

 

Tier 1 (Default) - Current chance for object to be destroyed (Ian, Runtime, food, goop, whatever else requires you to go print 10 more of the object for the next round of testing)

 

Tier 2 - 50% of the current chance of those things happening.

 

Tier 3 - 25% of the current chance of those things happening.

 

Tier 4 (Bluespace/Diamond Tier) - Less than 1% (or 0%) of current chance of those happening.

 

By then end, you still have a 2% or however low chance of Blood Curse, but it's less likely to be interrupted by the other shitty effects.

 

[monster860]

Hey, good news. A PR got merged that lets this happen

[Scrat]

 

Hey, good news. A PR got merged that lets this happen

 

Not quite. It has just been updated so upgrading it wont make it WORSE. It wont be improved much.

 

[Midaychi]

Just FYI, the 'upgrading tech levels' triggers off of anything the code doesn't consider a failure, not just that one event. If you notice, the connected R&D terminal's tech level goes up whenever certain of the normal non-globalmalf events trigger. You should try experimenting on slime cores.

[Kyet]

 

The EXPERIMENTOR is unfixably terrible.

Delete it entirely and replace it with something that has decent mechanics.

Patching it won't bring it up to par.

 

[Da Dman234]

 

The EXPERIMENTOR is unfixably terrible.

Delete it entirely and replace it with something that has decent mechanics.

Patching it won't bring it up to par.

This.

I read the title and immediately thought to myself "There's still less than 0 chance in hell that I'm ever going to use it". Due to how it's designed it's either going to be utterly OP or trash, and it's been made plenty clear it's not going to be buffed.

 

[davidchan]

 

imho The best way to fix the EXPIR would be to redesign it to make it something like a crafting system.

 

Removing the RNG dice roll and replacing it with a combination system. 2 or more items can be placed in the EXPIR and attempted to combine.

 

In order to prevent the RnD list method of just following a step-by-step process, we could make multiple tables of what each item combo combines to make and the server would roll/assign each combination a result, similar to how genetics SE slots are assigned round start.

 

Thus, one round combining a Phazon targetting board with a syndi crossbow /might/ yield something like a combat shotgun or high end science research item, the following round the reaction might summon a space bear or other unusual event. It would still be a risk reward system with a lot of trial and error, but it would be a bit more interesting than the time sink we have now.