The ultimate Kidan Overhaul - Making those bugs actually fun

[Dinarzad]

 

The problem with it though, is they still would have no glasses.

Which is not really a good balancing point, because it balances very little with the race itself and just becomes a job limitation feature on the race as a whole?

Did you wanna be Sec? Lol u silly Kidan u cant even sechud

Did you wanna mine? Llllllllllllllllllllllel no mesons 4 u

 

You still can't PLAY Kidan because they have no glasses, which means you're locked out of sec and mining and Medical/Engineering becomes a massive pain in the ass.

 

You can still play Kidan as sec if you get an appropiate implant and use a welding helmet.

 

You can play Kidan as medical because you need to smack them with a scanner anyway. As a surgeon you don't need a medhud.

 

Mining sucks but you don't need eyewear for engineering, since your job is to sent up the engine and then go screw around for the rest of the round.

 

Implants take time for RnD to research, require a surgeon to actually implant them and then still getting access to welding goggles, because a Welding helmet would mean you can't wear your Security Helmet when shit goes south.

The only one who doesn't TRULY need a security hud in the sec department is the Detective and Brig Physician.

 

And with the recent nerfs to RnD, implants are not ALWAYS gonna be a certainty of being there anymore, since some of that research may have to come from the ExperiMENTOR now, which is unreliable at best.

 

As for Medical and Engineering, yes it's possible, but that's why I say it's a massive pain in the ass and not a direct lock like it is on Miners and Security. Plus, Mesons are required for Engine maintenance, given if you look at them without mesons on, you take eye damage.

Medi-huds are vital for triage and getting critical patience priority treatment.

 

Mining remains nearly impossible, because you can't see where any of the ores are, you just sorta hit rocks an hope for the best.

Eyewear should not be a balance point for any race, it's too ingrained into jobs and how they function these days. And no point should there be MECHANICAL restrictions on someone playing an entire department just because "Wow these guys sound really cool, I'd love to play them!"

 

Imagine if Greys were were made so physically weak they couldn't use the pull command or carry heavy objects. You'd effectively make them unable to do Cargo or Medical departments as a whole (Dragging bodies/patients), and that's a no fun and pointless limitation on a player just for picking this sprite over that sprite.

 

TL;DR: MY entire point is, if we want people to actually play Kidan, for that race to get some love. We need to re-balance them with the idea that they'll have glasses again. Otherwise, no matter how much you re-tool them or give them better sprites, barely anyone are going to put up with THAT level of bullshit, just for some combat buffs that they'll barely get to use unless they're Security (Who they can't be without sechuds or Sec implants) or an Antag.

Aside those two situations, most crew SHOULDN'T be getting into fist fights enough to make it matter all that much what combat stats someone has.

 

[Tauka Usanake]

 

It's not that big a level of bullshit when you have that much armor and no-push. You are still pretty strong without glasses and if you are so impatient to play kidan sec without a HUD or implants then tough. Besides, you don't NEED the HUD to fight crime, it just makes finding criminals before Beepsky a little easier.

 

As for mining, I still think they need a racial trait that let's them see minerals. Just say it's their weak psychic powers doing it, how else would they be such proficient miners without mesons?

 

I'm in agreement with the above suggestion, along with making them either herbivore or omnivore because diona. More omni because we don't always have Botany doing their damn job (unless you also want to make it so they don't get high from raw plants). The x2 grab speed might not be possible in the code because I've seen some fast tabling and it also depends on your client/server connection speed. The ability to grab at level 2 could be a toggle but might be considered OP so I'm against that bit as well unless a coder can verify it

 

[Dinarzad]

 

It's not that big a level of bullshit when you have that much armor and no-push. You are still pretty strong without glasses and if you are so impatient to play kidan sec without a HUD or implants then tough. Besides, you don't NEED the HUD to fight crime, it just makes finding criminals before Beepsky a little easier.

 

 

But who gets use out of those abilities?

People who see a lot of combat, right?

That narrows it down to Security Department and Antagonists.

Without HUD glasses, you have very little reason to play Kidan Security, unless you REALLY Like the race enough to put up with a total lack of eyewear and substituting them with implants that take a while to get researched, and then convincing a surgeon to augment you out. If you joined at Roundstart, that's a solid 30 minutes of sitting around being Deadweight to an already overburdened department, because you are taking a job slot, that someone who could actually do the job, could be taking.

 

So the only people left, are people who don't need those huds at ALL, are Antags. It's breeding the perfect Antag Powergamer race.

Large damage resistance, inability to be pushed (Disarm intent is best intent), Can upgrade to killing grabs fast, which is a silent killing method and all at the cost of not being able to wear glasses they don't need anyway, and having to eat a bit more often.

 

Why are we balancing AROUND the shittiest part of playing a Kidan, instead of removing the shittiest part of playing a Kidan and finding a better substitute that doesn't have an end result of pointlessly locking out jobs or making them difficult for the sake of ... fuck knows what, cuz it doesn't really impact BALANCE that much, it JUST makes certain jobs hard to impossible.

 

EDIT: Also Bear in mind, Science now kind of relies on Mining to do things again. So no active miners = GG NO RE on that implant front. Being RELIANT on RnD to even do your basic job, is not good and DAMN SURE is not a reliable or justifiable 'solution' to the problem.

 

[Toroic]

 

The problem with it though, is they still would have no glasses.

Which is not really a good balancing point, because it balances very little with the race itself and just becomes a job limitation feature on the race as a whole?

Did you wanna be Sec? Lol u silly Kidan u cant even sechud

Did you wanna mine? Llllllllllllllllllllllel no mesons 4 u

 

You still can't PLAY Kidan because they have no glasses, which means you're locked out of sec and mining and Medical/Engineering becomes a massive pain in the ass.

 

You can still play Kidan as sec if you get an appropiate implant and use a welding helmet.

 

You can play Kidan as medical because you need to smack them with a scanner anyway. As a surgeon you don't need a medhud.

 

Mining sucks but you don't need eyewear for engineering, since your job is to sent up the engine and then go screw around for the rest of the round.

 

Implants take time for RnD to research, require a surgeon to actually implant them and then still getting access to welding goggles, because a Welding helmet would mean you can't wear your Security Helmet when shit goes south.

The only one who doesn't TRULY need a security hud in the sec department is the Detective and Brig Physician.

 

And with the recent nerfs to RnD, implants are not ALWAYS gonna be a certainty of being there anymore, since some of that research may have to come from the ExperiMENTOR now, which is unreliable at best.

 

As for Medical and Engineering, yes it's possible, but that's why I say it's a massive pain in the ass and not a direct lock like it is on Miners and Security. Plus, Mesons are required for Engine maintenance, given if you look at them without mesons on, you take eye damage.

Medi-huds are vital for triage and getting critical patience priority treatment.

 

Mining remains nearly impossible, because you can't see where any of the ores are, you just sorta hit rocks an hope for the best.

Eyewear should not be a balance point for any race, it's too ingrained into jobs and how they function these days. And no point should there be MECHANICAL restrictions on someone playing an entire department just because "Wow these guys sound really cool, I'd love to play them!"

 

Imagine if Greys were were made so physically weak they couldn't use the pull command or carry heavy objects. You'd effectively make them unable to do Cargo or Medical departments as a whole (Dragging bodies/patients), and that's a no fun and pointless limitation on a player just for picking this sprite over that sprite.

 

TL;DR: MY entire point is, if we want people to actually play Kidan, for that race to get some love. We need to re-balance them with the idea that they'll have glasses again. Otherwise, no matter how much you re-tool them or give them better sprites, barely anyone are going to put up with THAT level of bullshit, just for some combat buffs that they'll barely get to use unless they're Security (Who they can't be without sechuds or Sec implants) or an Antag.

Aside those two situations, most crew SHOULDN'T be getting into fist fights enough to make it matter all that much what combat stats someone has.

 

Most of this is nonsense. You absolutely do not need medhud to do medical. Surgeons don't need it at all, and you can assume anyone walking in needs help. If two walk in and you're at the front, check the crew monitor like you should be doing anyway. It's convenient but not necessary. CMO also had a medhud implant in their locker.

 

You could also drag beepsy or just be in communication as to whom to arrest, again making sechud a convenience not a necessity. Massive brute resist and better grapping is an interesting upside.

 

They also won't be an antag race for the same reason diona aren't: sec can deal with them just fine. Stunprods work as normal, flashes work as normal, fire works as normal.

 

Kidan make bad miners... So do diona.

 

Also, needing mesons for engineering is a joke. Engine maintenance is not a thing, especially with a tesla and even if it's only a kidan just wire the solars and you're golden.

 

We don't need more races that play like humans in costumes. IPC are an awesome race because they are balanced and yet play differently. IPC aren't any more limited in sec or engineering than Kidan would be.

 

Difference is that current kidan are twice as much Karma and have no interesting upsides. I think that finding a way to work around no glasses lets us have much more freedom to give interesting and powerful advantages.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

Stop focusing on Medical, because it is the least effect by the eyewear flaw As I keep saying. But it still IMPACTS the job, in a pointless fashion as it does not balance the STATS. NOTHING is worth that loss of an item slot, unless it's something overpowered because I won't even SEE that brute resist or grab speed unless I am fighting a lot. Which I am not GOING to be as almost every job on the station, short of Sec or Blueshield or I am an Antagonist and thus am trying to murder people. Do you see what I am saying? The benefits are invisible and don;t effect me or positively effect my playing experience, compared to the massive negative effects I feel from the DOWNSIDE.

 

As for dragging around Beepsky, that is a massive waste of resources, and in terms of be in communication, Late joins happen. People are going to join late with no idea as to any crimes having gone down, in a perfect world Sec would talk to each other al lthe time, but they frequently DON'T. That's why Sec huds can even view Wanted statuses.

 

I am not SAYING the brute resist and improved Grappling are bad ideas, I am saying None of it matters until the Glasses flaw is repalced by one that is actually balanced. That flaw is both enormous and not ACTUALLY Balancing anything stat wise. Greys get access to Telepathy and in return they take more brute damage. Vulps/Tarj are resistant to colder temperatures, but end up taking more burn damage. Vox Cannot breathe oxygen, Plasma people need suits on all the time.

These things all effect the BALANCE of the race, they are pros and cons to the playstyles. They DON'T restrict jobs. There's a reason you see more plasma people then Kidan, despite plasmas being 100 karma compared to 30 for Kidan and it's because you can play a plasmabro in the JOB that you want to do, because they can do those jobs without arbitrary mechanical restrictions imposed onto them.

The CLOSEST comparison is IPCs and EMP vulnerability, and all that limits them is in engineering, to not doing engine maintenance, similar to Kidan.

 

Diona are not an Antag powergame race for one very strong reason. Speed. They cannot run, so they also cannot dodge, they can't catch up to anyone. If a diona tries to murder you, you just.... run away and leave him in the dust. If Sec goes after a Diona, they can't dodge or partake in the normal click-war that happens. They tank. They regen the hits.

Kidan are NOT slow, so they CAN Dodge, AND have Combat buffs. If you cannot play them as a normal crew, to do the jobs you feel like playing, then the only reason you have to play a Kidan is FOR those buffs. Which is going to lead to powergaming, that's the entire min-max mindset behind it.

 

Diona don't make bad miners, I've played a diona miner. You're basically immortal, I tanked a goliath and won. You're just not a FAST Miner. Kidan make terrible miners because they can't see anything, you have no mesons to even see the ores. You just mine and hope for the best.

 

Engine maintenance is not a thing with the Tesla, true. For now. To my understanding a lot of people don't LIKE how braindead the Tesla is or engineering as a whole is, and it's entirely possible it'll be refactored to be more involved in set up or maintenance to give Engineers more to do. And if that day comes ( And it is admittedly an 'if') Then that's a another department you lock Kidan out of.

 

Alternate playstyles are great. I agree fully, asking them just humans in bug outfits is NOT what I am asking for, and I am not sure how that conclusion keeps coming up. Even IPCs can use eyewear, it's why IPCs are so popular, they play very differently and have so many unique features, but their downsides don't kick them out of entire departments. You can still be an IPC miner or a sec officer. Their flaw is such that it don't IMPAIR their job selection or performance. It is just an ever present threat/feature they have to play around.

If you want Kidan to be more varied, like how we have IPCs, then the Glasses flaw has GOT to go, or has to have a LOT of special shit to work around it, and at that point you risk it becoming overpowered. It doesn't add flavor to the race it just makes it annoying, it's not worth KEEPING.

 

TL;DR MK. II-ish: The downside to Kidan is huge. And it negatively impacts play experience. IPC flaws, don't negatively effect your play experience, you're just very fragile to taking hits and vulnerable to an EMP, which is not all that common in everyday station life, it's more common from Antags.

The UPSIDES to IPCs make them feel unique and fun, and are a few genuine switch ups in playstyle. There's POSITIVE impacts that are fun or interesting just by default, no matter where you call home that particular round.

 

For Kidan, that's not the case right now. You have this massive negative experience by not being able to play the jobs you want or having your performance of said job impaired arbitrarily or having to go through this jumping of hoops that nobody else has to go through, for no tangible positive experience. Because all the upsides to Kidan so far, are based around a concept they can't really partake in without being 2 very specific things.

 

ACTUAL TL;DR: IPCs get to play what and where they want with an interesting twist, without having an objectively harder time at almost any job as anyone else. Kidan are objectively going to have a harder time then anyone else at several jobs, because they aren't able to use a very key piece of equipment.

 

[Toroic]

 

It's not that big a level of bullshit when you have that much armor and no-push. You are still pretty strong without glasses and if you are so impatient to play kidan sec without a HUD or implants then tough. Besides, you don't NEED the HUD to fight crime, it just makes finding criminals before Beepsky a little easier.

 

As for mining, I still think they need a racial trait that let's them see minerals. Just say it's their weak psychic powers doing it, how else would they be such proficient miners without mesons?

 

I'm in agreement with the above suggestion, along with making them either herbivore or omnivore because diona. More omni because we don't always have Botany doing their damn job (unless you also want to make it so they don't get high from raw plants). The x2 grab speed might not be possible in the code because I've seen some fast tabling and it also depends on your client/server connection speed. The ability to grab at level 2 could be a toggle but might be considered OP so I'm against that bit as well unless a coder can verify it

 

Instant grab at level 2 would be interesting. I wouldn't mind them being able to see minerals, but I'm also ok with them just not being a good race for space mining. Diona suck at it too because good miners don't take damage and don't move like frozen molasses.

 

I also am ok with them remaining herbivore, though Skrell already are herbivorous.

 

Stop focusing on Medical, because it is the least effect by the eyewear flaw As I keep saying.

 

I'm not focusing on medical. I have gone department by department and refuted your assertion that Kidan cannot do the job and do the job well without eyewear, with the exception of mining. One job on the entire station being closed to them is not a significant downside. It isn't even truly closed to them, they just need an advanced scanner.

 

But it still IMPACTS the job, in a pointless fashion as it does not balance the STATS. NOTHING is worth that loss of an item slot, unless it's something overpowered because I won't even SEE that brute resist or grab speed unless I am fighting a lot. Which I am not GOING to be as almost every job on the station, short of Sec or Blueshield or I am an Antagonist and thus am trying to murder people. Do you see what I am saying? The benefits are invisible and don;t effect me or positively effect my playing experience, compared to the massive negative effects I feel from the DOWNSIDE.

 

There's a lot of "I feel" in this. You're /supposed/ to feel the downside of a race. Diona feel the downside of their race every time they move and are negatively impacted in all roles as a result. We already have a race that follows this pattern, and as I have proven the lack of eyewear is not nearly as big a deal as your hissy fit would suggest. If it really bothers you that much, maybe Kidan is not for you. Diona being slow bothers a lot of people, thus we do not see many diona. As long as they're not OP, that is both balanced and more interesting than if we removed diona healing and made them walk normal speed.

 

What I am suggesting is a very significant increase to a race's robustness. This should come at a cost that is meaningful, otherwise the race will be OP. Any competent player can manage to treat people effectively without medhud, any competent sec officer will still be competent while waiting for an implant. If Jonah Bright became a Kidan, you can bet a request for a sechud implant will be honored because we all recognize the value he brings, and that he would be able to leverage a Kidan's advantages.

 

As for dragging around Beepsky, that is a massive waste of resources, and in terms of be in communication, Late joins happen. People are going to join late with no idea as to any crimes having gone down, in a perfect world Sec would talk to each other al lthe time, but they frequently DON'T. That's why Sec huds can even view Wanted statuses.

 

If sec isn't willing to even mention who is wanted because communication is that poor, they should probably just be spaced for being shitcurity anyway. I don't think unreasonable player incompetence is an argument why Kidan need sechud.

 

 

I apologize for having to break up the next section into so many pieces, it's very dense nonsense.

 

I am not SAYING the brute resist and improved Grappling are bad ideas, I am saying None of it matters until the Glasses flaw is repalced by one that is actually balanced. That flaw is both enormous and not ACTUALLY Balancing anything stat wise.

 

Yes it is, it balances out utility and durability. In exchange for being much better at melee combat and grappling, they lose out on non-essential utility. Part of balancing vox is having them not be clonable.

 

Greys get access to Telepathy and in return they take more brute damage.

 

Greys are not remotely balanced. Just like Kidan, they're weak and expensive. Telepathy is a joke because your PDA accomplishes the same task more efficiently.

 

Vulps/Tarj are resistant to colder temperatures, but end up taking more burn damage.

 

Furbeast resistance to cold is completely forgettable, because most of the time when a player is exposed to cold or heat it is due to a breach or fire. The resistance is not significant enough to make a difference in either situation.

 

Vox are balanced because they can't be cloned and if you remove their internals they die.

 

These things all effect the BALANCE of the race, they are pros and cons to the playstyles.

 

This is objectively false. Taj/Vulp are better than humans with no downsides. IPC are better in some ways but worse in others. Skrell, Kidan, Grey, Plasmamen are all worse than humans.

 

They DON'T restrict jobs.

 

That is because for the most part every race you listed is basically a human in a costume minus Vox and IPC. I already proved that Kidan can do all the jobs you mentioned without eyewear except mining, which is still possible if they get an advanced scanner. Diona make horrible sec officers and miners due to their speed. It is exactly the same.

 

There's a reason you see more plasma people then Kidan, despite plasmas being 100 karma compared to 30 for Kidan and it's because you can play a plasmabro in the JOB that you want to do, because they can do those jobs without arbitrary mechanical restrictions imposed onto them.

 

Plasmamen are purely a status race because it means you had earned 100 karma points and willing to spend it on a human who bursts into flame if not in their suit and also dies with removed internals. None of it is because they are balanced, in fact they are weak.

 

The CLOSEST comparison is IPCs and EMP vulnerability, and all that limits them is in engineering, to not doing engine maintenance, similar to Kidan.

 

Diona are not an Antag powergame race for one very strong reason. Speed. They cannot run, so they also cannot dodge, they can't catch up to anyone. If a diona tries to murder you, you just.... run away and leave him in the dust. If Sec goes after a Diona, they can't dodge or partake in the normal click-war that happens. They tank. They regen the hits.

Kidan are NOT slow, so they CAN Dodge, AND have Combat buffs. If you cannot play them as a normal crew, to do the jobs you feel like playing, then the only reason you have to play a Kidan is FOR those buffs. Which is going to lead to powergaming, that's the entire min-max mindset behind it.

 

If we're talking about an antag race, it is hands down vulp or taj. They have improved melee and excellent darksight, which makes maint ambushes much easier.

 

You absolutely can play Kidan as normal crew because except for mining having eyewear is not essential to job functions.

 

Diona don't make bad miners, I've played a diona miner. You're basically immortal, I tanked a goliath and won. You're just not a FAST Miner. Kidan make terrible miners because they can't see anything, you have no mesons to even see the ores. You just mine and hope for the best.

 

I've tested Diona mining. I killed one of each of the mining mobs without trouble, but also was way too slow to produce enough ore. They make /godawful/ miners because every other race gets a hardsuit which replicates all the important Diona benefits, because good miners don't get hit in the first place.

 

Engine maintenance is not a thing with the Tesla, true. For now. To my understanding a lot of people don't LIKE how braindead the Tesla is or engineering as a whole is, and it's entirely possible it'll be refactored to be more involved in set up or maintenance to give Engineers more to do. And if that day comes ( And it is admittedly an 'if') Then that's a another department you lock Kidan out of.

 

Of the shitty logic and arguments you make here, this is the shittiest. Kidan have no issues with engineering setting up the tesla or simply wiring solars. It's entirely possible that engineering could change, but it's also entirely possible that anything could change. You don't base an argument on complete hypothetical, and your conclusion that Kidan would benefit negatively from engineering being more involved is yet another baseless assumption.

 

Alternate playstyles are great. I agree fully, asking them just humans in bug outfits is NOT what I am asking for, and I am not sure how that conclusion keeps coming up. Even IPCs can use eyewear, it's why IPCs are so popular, they play very differently and have so many unique features, but their downsides don't kick them out of entire departments. You can still be an IPC miner or a sec officer.

 

You can still be a Kidan miner, which is the only job on the entire station they aren't good at. IPC make awful sec officers because traitors can get emp, and their general fragility also makes them poorly suited to getting physical.

 

Their flaw is such that it don't IMPAIR their job selection or performance. It is just an ever present threat/feature they have to play around.

 

I already explained above why IPC make awful sec officers for two reasons.

 

If you want Kidan to be more varied, like how we have IPCs, then the Glasses flaw has GOT to go, or has to have a LOT of special shit to work around it, and at that point you risk it becoming overpowered. It doesn't add flavor to the race it just makes it annoying, it's not worth KEEPING.

 

TL;DR MK. II-ish: The downside to Kidan is huge. And it negatively impacts play experience. IPC flaws, don't negatively effect your play experience, you're just very fragile to taking hits and vulnerable to an EMP, which is not all that common in everyday station life, it's more common from Antags.

The UPSIDES to IPCs make them feel unique and fun, and are a few genuine switch ups in playstyle. There's POSITIVE impacts that are fun or interesting just by default, no matter where you call home that particular round.

 

For Kidan, that's not the case right now. You have this massive negative experience by not being able to play the jobs you want or having your performance of said job impaired arbitrarily or having to go through this jumping of hoops that nobody else has to go through, for no tangible positive experience. Because all the upsides to Kidan so far, are based around a concept they can't really partake in without being 2 very specific things.

 

ACTUAL TL;DR: IPCs get to play what and where they want with an interesting twist, without having an objectively harder time at almost any job as anyone else. Kidan are objectively going to have a harder time then anyone else at several jobs, because they aren't able to use a very key piece of equipment.

 

I'm really tired of slogging through all the misinformation that you present, but the short version of all of this is the only job where a competent Kidan with the bonuses I suggested is at any disadvantage is mining. I think that is completely fair considering that they would be much more physically robust in return.

 

For Kidan to gain any significant advantage and still be balanced, they'd need a significant downside that would actually matter. For IPC, it is their fragility, vulnerability to EMP from traitors, and that if they are broken repaired they often lose limbs that are not recovered and they remain limbless until robotics can make more. IPC also cannot be cloned.

 

Violence is a very common thing on Paradise. Playing as a Diona I've taken and regenerated significant damage in more than half the rounds. Blob, Cult, traitor, Wizard, nuke ops, vampire, revenant, vox traders all can involve significant violence to not just sec but all players on the station. To pretend like 40% brute resist, not being pushed, and double grapple speed isn't an advantage worth giving up the convenience (not necessity) of eyewear is completely intellectually dishonest.

 

You've made two long posts here, and failed to prove your two main points.

 

1) That Kidan are limited from multiple jobs as a result of not being able to use eyewear (This is patently false. We can say mining, but with an advanced scanner this is not closed to them either)

 

2) That Kidan getting the benefits I suggested would not balance out the loss of eyewear (Eyewear is optional but convenient for all non-miners. Violence of the sort that would benefit from the Kidan benefits of brute resist, not being able to be pushed, and improved grappling is common and thus the benefit is useful.)

 

 

My points are thus, and have been proven to be logical.

 

1) Kidan need a significant downside to have significant upsides. (Otherwise they would be OP, and we already have enough human equivalent races.)

 

2) Keeping the lack of eyewear is significant but not crippling, and having better brute resist and combat robustness is interesting.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

40% brute resist, can't be knocked down, instant-aggressive grabs, for not being able to wear glasses and having a token additional "weakness".

 

 

Powergamer: The race.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

I've been nothing but patient. Long posts do not equal a "Hissy fit" but if that's how you're going to just throw it all aside and devolve into being rude on top of it, when I've been nothing of the sort in return, then yeah we're done here, you're not gonna be budged no matter what, so further debate on it is just wasting what free time I have.

 

I agree with Fox on this one.

 

[Travelling Merchant]

 

Calm down. Kidan need an overhaul but its not worth fighting about.

 

So what about the other ideas?

 

[Toroic]

 

40% brute resist, can't be knocked down, instant-aggressive grabs, for not being able to wear glasses and having a token additional "weakness".

 

 

Powergamer: The race.

 

I said "interesting", not balanced.

 

2 of those would be fair. Currently though 20% brute resist is garbage for no glasses, which is why kidan are so rare.

 

On the other hand, we do have Vulps, a purely cosmetic reskin of Taj which are barely different than humans at all.

 

I'm sure curious why you're throwing shade when you personally made:

 

Snowflake: The race.

 

I personally believe that having significant bonuses and weaknesses is a good thing, and the lack of glasses is annoying enough that the powergaming should be kept to a minimum. If someone is being a problem, sec won't have any issue as none of the Kidan bonuses are good vs sec.

 

[TheDemonic]

Why not allow glasses to be adapted for kidan too wear them as hats, so ether they can wear a hat or glasses. Sure they won't be very good miners and slightly worse security but they won't be terrible at so many jobs. plus fighting them won't be as simple as aim the for the eyes, you will have to take a second to see if they are wearing glasses or a helmet and adjust your aim accordingly.

[tigercat2000]

 

On the other hand, we do have Vulps, a purely cosmetic reskin of Taj which are barely different than humans at all.

 

I'm sure curious why you're throwing shade when you personally made:

 

Snowflake: The race.

 

40% brute resist, can't be knocked down, instant-aggressive grabs, for not being able to wear glasses and having a token additional "weakness".

 

 

Powergamer: The race.

Stop throwing petty descriptions around, both of you. Attacking someone's work because you don't like their opinion is not acceptable.

 

[pazneria12]

aww but it was just getting to the good part.

[GelatinousGlob]

Anyone who thinks not having glasses isn't a problem hasn't played Kidan.

[Travelling Merchant]

So does anyone have any strong ideas to make Kidan fun to play?

[NTSAM]

Anyone who thinks not having glasses isn't a problem hasn't played Kidan.

[Toroic]

 

Anyone who thinks not having glasses isn't a problem hasn't played Kidan.

 

Anyone who thinks not having glasses isn't a problem hasn't played Kidan.

 

It is a problem, mostly because it is annoying.

 

But to have unique and strong upsides you need to have downsides that matter.

 

What do you suggest instead?

 

[GelatinousGlob]

Literally anything else. I don't think it is needed anyway because what is it really balancing out? Brute resistance is already balanced by bleeding like a fountain as Kidan. But you could have toxin vulnerability, cold vulnerability, remove scratch punch (which doesnt make sense), or literally anything else.

[Toroic]

 

Literally anything else. I don't think it is needed anyway because what is it really balancing out? Brute resistance is already balanced by bleeding like a fountain as Kidan. But you could have toxin vulnerability, cold vulnerability, remove scratch punch (which doesnt make sense), or literally anything else.

 

I dug around in the code and didn't see anything to suggest Kidan bleed more than normal. Currently glasses aren't balancing out the 20% brute resist, which is why I'm suggesting major robust upsides and a major downside.

 

[NTSAM]

If Kidan really need a major downside make them take major tox when sprayed with Pest-Spray, kinda like how Diona get damaged when plant-b-gone sprayed.

[Travelling Merchant]

 

If Kidan really need a major downside make them take major tox when sprayed with Pest-Spray, kinda like how Diona get damaged when plant-b-gone sprayed.

 

This is actually a really good idea. +1 to that.

 

Still needs upsides to make Kidan actually fun though.

 

[Travelling Merchant]

What about being able to spit healing goo on people/themselves, at the cost of having to eat more after having done so?

[Toroic]

 

What about being able to spit healing goo on people/themselves, at the cost of having to eat more after having done so?

 

Definitely interesting but i dunno about balanced. Certainly fun but would require it not be too much or too often.

 

[NTSAM]

Make it have a threshold of healing, like make sure it can't heal broken bones and internal shit but let it mend skin and muscle and etc. to a point. (If everything is all mutilated/dead/infected don't make it do shit)

[Travelling Merchant]

 

Make it have a threshold of healing, like make sure it can't heal broken bones and internal shit but let it mend skin and muscle and etc. to a point. (If everything is all mutilated/dead/infected don't make it do shit)

 

I don't play medical much, but there's a medical box next to the gateway that has some like patch things that heal some damage, but never a particularly large amount. Something like that would be good.

 

So we could add that without changing anything else about Kidan as it is.

 

Tie it to having to eat food so you cant spam it or use it too much might work.

 

This, in combination with a diona nymph consuming buff would be nice.

 

Maybe add the playing music with their bodies as a fun thing too and BAM, a fun to play kidan.