Defib discussion

[Yinseng]

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Edited April 30, 2016 by Guest

[Spacemanspark]

Game isn't meant to be simple, honestly.

[NTSAM]

Game isn't meant to be simple, honestly.

[Yinseng]

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Edited April 30, 2016 by Guest

[HereticChurch]

It's... not really complicated enough to warrant a change. And we don't need to make it even more mindless to be able to revive people.

[Yinseng]

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Edited April 30, 2016 by Guest

[FalseIncarnate]

 

You mean that's not how you apply a defib? Shit...

 

Jokes aside, I'd rather not have that be the case. Something as bulky as the defib backpack is going to hurt if you get hit by it regardless of whether or not the person intended to. I also have, in a pinch, used the defib as a weapon for bashing spiders and such when I have nothing else handy, typically remaining in help intent.

 

Perhaps expanding the description to be a bit more clear would be a good middle-ground though.

 

[Yinseng]

What about if it only stopped you from using it as a weapon if you're on help intent AND the person you're using it on doesn't have a heartbeat?

[Toroic]

 

-1

 

Don't suck.

 

[davidchan]

 

tbh I'm surprised Defibs haven't been nerfed a long time ago, let alone still in the game. They barely take any charge at all to zap someone, can be used to revive 10+ people if the body is found and recovered in a timely manner, and they don't do any permanent damage a could heal synthflesh patches can't immediately go away.

 

The cloner on the other hand takes time to work, requires biomass (with only enough starting biomass for 3 people), removes all augments, implants and powers, can induce brain damage and genetic damage if not properly upgraded. And they get cloning disorder meaning they can't remember events leading to their death, were a defibbed person can spout out the last thing they saw was Assistant McTraitor coming at them with a revolver or esword.

 

[Keroman]

 

...they get cloning disorder meaning they can't remember events leading to their death.

 

This is actually optional. As a cultist a while back I stunned, cuffed, and sliced up the HoS in maintenance. His body was found and he came back a short while later with a vengeance, knowing exactly what had happened. I ahelped and was told it was legit.

 

[Toroic]

 

tbh I'm surprised Defibs haven't been nerfed a long time ago, let alone still in the game. They barely take any charge at all to zap someone, can be used to revive 10+ people if the body is found and recovered in a timely manner, and they don't do any permanent damage a could heal synthflesh patches can't immediately go away.

 

The cloner on the other hand takes time to work, requires biomass (with only enough starting biomass for 3 people), removes all augments, implants and powers, can induce brain damage and genetic damage if not properly upgraded. And they get cloning disorder meaning they can't remember events leading to their death, were a defibbed person can spout out the last thing they saw was Assistant McTraitor coming at them with a revolver or esword.

 

Given that medbay has battery chargers the amount of charge in the defib is irrelevant.

 

The "timely manner" aspect is the most difficult, I think. 10 minutes isn't a lot of time.

 

Then, once they're alive again the patient might have broken bones, shrapnel, organ damage, limbs missing, and probably require multiple surgeries.

 

Cloning is simple to use, with a good chemist or a chef can easily be restocked, and don't take any effort to put back. You dip them in cyro (mannitol in the mix) and let them strip their own body.

 

[Coldflame]

 

...they get cloning disorder meaning they can't remember events leading to their death.

 

This is actually optional. As a cultist a while back I stunned, cuffed, and sliced up the HoS in maintenance. His body was found and he came back a short while later with a vengeance, knowing exactly what had happened. I ahelped and was told it was legit.

I was defibbed that round, not cloned.

 

[davidchan]

 

Given that medbay has battery chargers the amount of charge in the defib is irrelevant.

 

 

Kind of my point, the default cells will last an entire round as is Medical would NOT notice these chargers disappearing in a typical secret round. Either everyone is dead or only a few stragglers.

 

The "timely manner" aspect is the most difficult, I think. 10 minutes isn't a lot of time.

 

 

Except most people will ragequit when they die, or ghost and respawn if they aren't immediately found or die in a moderately high traffic place. That defib timer is far beyond the patience of the typical ss13 player, as someone who used to main MD/CMO it's astoundingly common to try and clone defib a person who's TOD was within the last 10 minutes and their ckey is already offline.

 

Then, once they're alive again the patient might have broken bones, shrapnel, organ damage, limbs missing, and probably require multiple surgeries.

 

Surgery isn't exactly hard, and damaged bones are pretty rare now days when it comes to defibbing patience. They either die of exposure, or all the damage is concentrated to one part. Any attack that has the power to break multiple bones is just as likely to gib a person as it is to break them.

 

Cloning is simple to use, with a good chemist or a chef can easily be restocked, and don't take any effort to put back. You dip them in cyro (mannitol in the mix) and let them strip their own body.

 

Cloning may be simple, but it's time consuming. Even with T4 parts (which there is no garuntee you'll ever see) It takes about 4 minutes to fully clone a person. There are sekrit methods to increase this (shorting the APC so the cloner spits them out for immediate cryo) but it takes time and resources. It's always faster to defib than it is to clone, and defibbing doesn't have a tiered system with clone damage, brain damage or random defects. Defibbing SHOULD induce organ/internal damage to prevent overuse, but as it stands a single doctor can defib and quickly heal multiple people by juggling them in cryo.

 

[necaladun]

 

The main downside to defibs, as said, is that they're still generally in a shitty condition afterwards, especially in regards to broken bones, etc. Overkill renders them unable to be defibbed often too, if you see someone with 500+ burn damage come in, rare as it is, it's often not possible to defib them.

 

I do agree though that defibs are a bit too easy - death is trivial enough in SS13, so I'd be behind them being nerfed.

 

[Farya]

At least your defibs needs to be worn on the back/belt and then wielded in both hands unlike other servers. But well, it would be good to make defibs use up more charge per use, so it would require cell ejection and recharge. You could also reintroduce burn salve and make it mandatory to salve patient chest with it to make defibrillator work safely. Defibing someone without salving would deal severe burn damage instead.

[Toroic]

 

At least your defibs needs to be worn on the back/belt and then wielded in both hands unlike other servers. But well, it would be good to make defibs use up more charge per use, so it would require cell ejection and recharge. You could also reintroduce burn salve and make it mandatory to salve patient chest with it to make defibrillator work safely. Defibing someone without salving would deal severe burn damage instead.

 

We play pretty fast and loose with the way defibs function anyway, but burn salve makes no sense to introduce.

 

In real life, conducting gel is applied to the pads, and you wouldn't want that smeared on the chest. The electrical charge isn't going to burn anyone.

 

If we're nerfing defibs I'd either reduce the number of shocks that you can do from full charge, increase the downtime between shocks, decrease the damage threshhold for reviving, or shorten the time you can revive someone.

 

[Yinseng]

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