Remove changeling headslugs from gold slime core spawn list

[Keroman]

 

I'm all for people being able to rejoin the round as simple animals and pAIs. Cyborgs are fine because they're governed by laws that require them to refrain from certain behavior. I can't say I like the fact that changeling headlugs are now able to be spawned and made sentient since they can lay eggs in any corpse and become human. Unlike golems who can wear backpacks and headsets (but not much else) changelings can use any equipment a regular player can PLUS they can evolve changeling powers.

 

I have seen at least 2 shifts where changelings joined the security force which means the antags of the round now have to deal with them. While this isn't necessarily that different from security having genetic powers handed out to them it is still a pretty big and unnecessary hurdle for the antags, especially if security gets changelings AND genetic powers. I would equate this to the recent PR which allowed pAIs to be placed into security bots. It allows for extreme validhunting and creates an unreasonable level of difficulty for nearly any stealth antag.

 

There is, of course, also the possibility of an antag xenobiologist creating changeling minions which very much tips the scales in their favor by essentially allowing them to create an army of killing machines far more effective than any simple mob or golem.

 

Science SOP would dictate that the RD not allow said changelings out of the lab but so far as I've seen either the RD is ignorant of SOP or the Xenobiologists fail to inform the RD of the creation of a headslug.

 

NT policy is that changelings are EoC which means that they should, at the very least, be killed as soon as they spawn and NOT fed sentience potions.

 

I know that there's a PR in he works that will require the use of plasma dust for slime extract reactions. That should certainly slow things down some (except on shifts where xenobio gets lucky and gets dark purple slimes early), but even so I still believe that headslug spawns should be removed from the gold slime extract spawn list.

 

[SomanB]

 

Yaknow, I agree with this. Part of the reason loyalty implants got changed was because sec would catch antags like changelings, implant them, and suddenly have a totally obedient killing machine.

 

If anything, giving sentience to antag level creatures like brainslugs, swarmers, xenos etc should be treated the same as an engineer hotwiring the engine....antag only, and you best have a damn good reason for doing it as non-antag.

 

[Lolzyking]

 

the thing is, these headslugs, even they become full changelings, are bound to their master.

 

Security is not their master (usually) so they should be bwoinked that they have no reason to become organocop

 

unless their master tells them to do something, they should just netflix and chill in a place where they can help their master if need be.

 

 

 

I'd hate to see this removed as it gives tator xenobiologists a decent chance at the hijack objective.

 

[Spacemanspark]

This sounds like a bug to me, honestly.

[Machofish]

 

I would personally suggest that lab-grown changelings have extensive limitations to their abilities, rather than be removed entirely. For starters, they should be confined to lesser forms only (monkeys, farwas, stoks, and wolpins), while this would limit a vast majority of their 'trademark' abilities, further limitations should include making them unable to use any changeling shrieks, stings, or any genome-manipulating abilities.

 

Any available powers left over would be counterbalanced by the fact that monkeys are relatively fragile to start out with - not to mention the language and utility barriers caused from being confined to their lesser form. Seeking out and creatively exploiting loopholes in the name of SCIENCE is part of the fun of playing in Research Division. While I agree that lab-grown changelings need to be adjusted for balance, I'd be sad to see them removed entirely.

 

[NTSAM]

Yeah it does sound like it's a bug.

[Munks]

 

The last several rounds (3-4 ish) I've played, xenobiology has produced multiple (2 minimum, up to 4 though) changeling buddies. While scientists having a bunch of changeling bodyguards when they're already cooped up in Research/Xenobio all the time is bad enough, a bunch of them tend to join Security and subsequently stomp antagonists

 

Changeling rounds only ever have a small handful of changelings for a reason, and you shouldn't be able to produce a full round's worth of superpowered antagonists whether you're a crewmember and having them protect you/help Sec, or an antag and thus getting a bunch of changeling servants. Its stupid. Why bother with cloning when you can guarantee yourself changeling powers, in return for just being a different character? In fact, why even spawn in at all when you can just have one of your metafriends do xenobio and spawn you in as a changeling guaranteed?

 

The prevailing defense is "it's really difficult!" but given I'm seeing it literally every round I play, and a large number of them, in like 30-45 minutes tops, it can't be that hard. And no amount of difficulty justifies fucking up the round's antagonists by having a private army of changelings to either hide behind or send out to do Sec's work for them

 

[saywat_the_15th]

 

I was wonderin why we had a ling in sec force one round.

Anyways, i agree that this can ruin rounds for antags. If this is a bug, it should be fixed and if this is an actual feature, this should not exist. Seems way too operpowered and antag round ruin-y.

 

[Doukan]

Supercop chang lings probably fall under the valid hunting rules?

[Bigtimetripod]

 

Topic can be closed.

 

This is the reason we cannot have !¡FUN¡!

 

 

https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4160

 

I for one support this change. Sec on their own are powerful enough, no need to make em OP.