Make Chemistry Great Again

[FlattestGuitar]

 

So, as people probably know, the current chemistry system has a massive amount of redundant and hard to make chems that don't really get used by sensible chemists. Here are some changes I proposed on a different thread, but it didn't seem to pick up much traction. Let's discuss those, shall we?

 

 

• Saline-Glucose Solution - make it slightly weaker at brute damage healing, add swanky Saline bags to the bloodbag crates

• Calomel - remove completely - I don't even know why this exists with pentetic in the picture. Just nuke it. It kinda sounds like "camel" and this upsets me

Potassium Iodide - make it heal toxin damage effectively while not purging any chemicals. Makes it possible for it to work in pills/mixes

Salicylic Acid - make the recipe easier, it actually heals brute damage, make it work in conjunction with the new saline. MIXING PILLS

Salbutamol - make the recipe easier, using it instead of perf NEVER happens

Diphenhydramine - make recipe easier, make it remove stutter, why not.

Atropine - make it more powerful, really sucks that it locks people down at -25%. If you overshoot you'll have a terribly hard time healing your patient before the med runs out.

Epinephrine - make recipe easier to contest the new atropine

Oculine - leave it be. cheap alternative to mitocholide

Mitocholide - make the recipe HARDER, late-game chem alongside strange reagent for maximum chemistry tryhardness, possibly exotic ingredients

Rezadone - make the recipe easier, would be a good alternative to cryo with a well-stocked fridge

 

 

[Bigtimetripod]

 

Calomel is insane useful, mate...

 

Time to make calomel - depending on how fast ye are and how far from sweden, 10-30 seconds, purges system of any chemicals very fast, but deals toxin damage, if yer healthy, fair trade off in my opinion. Some ass shot ye full of nanomachines/sarin? Run to chemist, scream CALOMEL and ye can be saved. Scream pententic acid and yer long dead before chemist mixes half the stuff.

 

SGS is fine in my opinion i has a change to not heal and if RNG jesus hates you, then ye might get rid of Brute or burn in a while.

 

Salbutamol- yes, make it easier! If i know im going to take oxygen damage or someone else is, i always go for Perfluorodecalin.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

Calomel purges 5u of every reagent you have in your system per cycle. Pentetic purges 4u.

How about nerfing pentetic in this manner and making calomel deal no damage?

 

Salglu doesn't really depend on RNG. The amount of checks will just make the end result be very close to the average. The average being 10u of salglu healing around 40 brute and 40 burn damage. That's a lot.

 

[Bigtimetripod]

 

Chem is this... iffy thing to really balance and make everything work out.

 

I really want to make Initropidril, but some stuff do not exist on station naturally and are hard to get. I don't even think Paradise has Initropidril recipe in code. ( tried making it once... round ended before i was able to finish last component of 6 so cannot even confirm it doesn't exist )

 

I have gone thru chem code fowards and backward dozens of times and it really interesting... but yeah looking code wise, every change can be made easy, its just the gameplay aspect that gains/suffers from it. I wish we added goon deathchems but thats never gonna happen so yeah... Talking to Fox about chems might get ye a better understanding code wise.

 

 

PS. Fox, if reading this, add goon deathchems, monkeys need new ways to die. Stealth merge and husshuss. Thank you

 

 

[Yinseng]

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Edited April 30, 2016 by Guest

[Bigtimetripod]

 

It'd be nice if there was something else you could shoot the crazies with syringe guns with, other than a bar drink Neuro-toxin.

 

Normal neurotoxin works well also. Its not insta-stun, but has like 20-30 second delay. Also makes target stagger so i cannot run away well.

 

 

 

Also gives brain damage. Strait jacket the loones cause they will get loonier.

 

 

[Yinseng]

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Edited April 30, 2016 by Guest

[Bigtimetripod]

 

Yeaaahh, I don't really consider chems that deal damage to be nonlethal

 

Gets the job done.

 

Neuro-Toxin ( drink form ) will also damage if left in the system long enough just takes quite a bit longer.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

>Making realistic chems with realistic recipes have unrealistic recipes.

 

Star Trek chem died off a long time ago.

 

As someone who's incredibly experienced with chemistry....

 

Saline-Glucose Solution - make it slightly weaker at brute damage healing, add swanky Saline bags to the bloodbag crates

 

The only easily-accessible heal over time drug in the game that can deal with brute or burn (other than salicylic); it's not even than useful for day to day treatments, due to its randomness and the fact that styptic/silver sulfa/synth flesh is instantaneous. It's not that useful for for combat due to its random nature, either--at best it's a supportive medicine that helps with very minor damage and veryyy minor blood regen.

 

Calomel - remove completely - I don't even know why this exists with pentetic in the picture. Just nuke it. It kinda sounds like "camel" and this upsets me

 

No, go away. This chem is insanely useful. If the chemists didn't bother making pentetic and you need to clear something out of someone fast, this is incredibly useful--it's also good for those who have lots of robotic parts since pentetic will invariably burn and physically traumatize them and they'll have to take the time to repair every single one of their damaged limbs. It's also an excellent purgative for dealing with with who are hopped up on stimulative chems. This isn't just used for medical purposes--this has a lot of nefarious use too.

 

Potassium Iodide - make it heal toxin damage effectively while not purging any chemicals. Makes it possible for it to work in pills/mixes

 

We really don't need another tox healing chem--we already have a ton (Omnize, charcoal, pentetic, and antihol)---anddd the conditional healers (epi/atropine) also heal tox, under certain circumstances, too.

 

Salicylic Acid - make the recipe easier, it actually heals brute damage, make it work in conjunction with the new saline. MIXING PILLS

 

See my original statement. Also, this is one of the better combat chems out there, by virtue of its pain reduction--it's also one of the few heals over time chems capable of dealing with brute--this reallyyy doesn't need to be better than it is.

 

Salbutamol - make the recipe easier, using it instead of perf NEVER happens

Diphenhydramine - make recipe easier, make it remove stutter, why not.

 

See above. Diphen is largely used as a building block for illicit drug-related chems. It would make some sense for the medical vendors to start with this though.

 

Atropine - make it more powerful, really sucks that it locks people down at -25%. If you overshoot you'll have a terribly hard time healing your patient before the med runs out.

 

The best sarin purgative in the game, capable of wiping out every single trace of it, guaranteed with only 3 units (and that's if they have 300+ units of it in them, which will literally never happen). It's also incredibly strong for getting people out of crit, especially when used in conjunction with epi; by itself, atropine is better at getting people out of crit than omnizine is--combine it with epi, and the healing rates are astronomically high. This has a veryyy low depletion rate---you're going to overshoot it if you inject someone with a ton of it; like epi, it should be used in small doses. It's also a decent poison, if used tactfully.

 

Rezadone - make the recipe easier, would be a good alternative to cryo with a well-stocked fridge

 

Because every cloning session being literally instantaneous is a good thing.

 

[Yinseng]

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Edited April 30, 2016 by Guest

[Fox McCloud]

 

and completely makes Oculine obsolete

 

Not even remotely. Mito healing 0.4 damage for all internal organs. Oculine has an 80% chance of healing 1.0 (so might as well say 0.8, averaged). Not only this, but it also rolls for a chance to cure blindness and nearsightedness. It also reduces general eye blurriness and reduces the duration of temporary blindness effects...not only that, but it can rapidly cure ear damage if it's below certain thresholds.

 

Mitocholide is broader spectrum, but weaker, but for anything remotely involving purely just eyes? Oculine is vastly superior.

 

[Farya]

Would be nice to add new medicine apply way - inhale. Make inhalers and medicine which must be inhaled with it. Maybe some drugs should be administered that way?

[SkyPing]

 

>Making realistic chems with realistic recipes have unrealistic recipes.

 

At the same time, we have Oculine, Mitocholide, Cryox, Unstable Mutagen, Mutadone, Spaceacillin, etc. None of them are real, but they exist and add to gameplay. The game is 500 years in the future, we can always say that the new chemicals that are discovered (Plasma and Space Fungus being the primary examples) can also be short cuts to making already existing chems.

 

[brains with their owners names labeled on them are] not "logical" or "realistic", but this is ultimately a game, at the end of the day, some conveniences exist for the sake of clarity and lack of confusion.

 

Things can afford to be flexible.

 

That being said, I love how chemistry in this game already works and I love how the medicines in this game also transfer into real life. It's one of the reasons why I stuck with Paradise. But at the end of the day all of these suggestions are just "suggestions", and I have a few to make.

 

Let's gooooooooooooooooooo.

 

[*]Saline-Glucose Solution - make it slightly weaker at brute damage healing, add swanky Saline bags to the bloodbag crates

 

SGS in real life IS supposed to be an IV medicine, so Saline being more effective or something when in bags makes sense. To be honest, I've never actually enjoyed using this chem at all because of how slow it is. Patches and Iron work faster and are

 

(*Cough cough*). If I wanted to spend extra time waiting for someone to heal, I'd just use the sleepers.

 

[*]Calomel - remove completely - I don't even know why this exists with pentetic in the picture. Just nuke it. It kinda sounds like "camel" and this upsets me

 

[*]Potassium Iodide - make it heal toxin damage effectively while not purging any chemicals. Makes it possible for it to work in pills/mixes

 

Definitely not. There should always be a choice on whether to use Charcoal/Calomel/PI or Pentetic Acid. Pent is faster, more efficient, and friendlier for chemists because it takes the role of three meds in one, but if the chemists prefer charcoal for whatever reason or you need a really fast purge or radiation killer, both Calomel and PI take about an instant to make and distribute. The variety needs to be there.

 

Salicylic Acid - make the recipe easier, it actually heals brute damage, make it work in conjunction with the new saline. MIXING PILLS

 

Honestly, I thought this med was completely useless until I read Fox's little blurb on how it's supposed to be a combat medicine instead of a regular healing chem. I have no idea where I stand on this cause I never have gotten into a situation where I needed to use it. I'll definitely try it out now.

 

[*]Salbutamol - make the recipe easier, using it instead of perf NEVER happens

 

Yeah, pretty much. We had a discussion about it before and the general consensus was that Salb was useful for combat situations and that Perf was used for medical application (When the silence effect didn't matter as much). So both have an application. But at the same time, it uses Salicyclic as a component and is all around just awkward to make. It's recipe could use a bit more love, and Perf made harder.

 

Basically, from a user standpoint, the two are fine. From a creator standpoint, it doesn't make much sense.

 

[*]Diphenhydramine - make recipe easier, make it remove stutter, why not.

 

Meds that purge certain chems really well never really made any sense to me. I can count the number of times I've had to deal with Histamine poison with one hand (If that hand had all of it's fingers sawed off). Plus, Calomel and/or Pent would of been made already. It IS being used in Viro apparently, so... yeah, I got nothing. Recipe doesn't seem too ridiculous to me.

 

[*]Atropine - make it more powerful, really sucks that it locks people down at -25%. If you overshoot you'll have a terribly hard time healing your patient before the med runs out.

 

[*]Epinephrine - make recipe easier to contest the new atropine

 

Same problem; I never get into any situation where I can apply these, so someone else probably has a deeper insight on this than I do. It's likely that I won't apply them to patients regardless while I have a Cryo and Fridge on hand.

 

[*]Oculine- leave it be. cheap alternative to mitocholide

 

The only reason Oculine is somewhat practical to make is cause Atropine can be made from the components locker and spaceacillin is in the Nano Vends. Mitocholide has Synthflesh and Cryox, but you should be making Synthflesh and Cryox anyways. Making Atropine and Spaceacillin using nothing but what you get from the dispenser is much more difficult and requires more steps.

 

In summery, that statement is absolute bullshit and you know it.

 

[*]Mitocholide - make the recipe HARDER, late-game chem alongside strange reagent for maximum chemistry tryhardness, possibly exotic ingredients

 

Agreed, I'll be stating an alternative at the end of this little blurb.

 

Rezadone - make the recipe easier, would be a good alternative to cryo with a well-stocked fridge

 

@Fox OH, that was you that did the instant cloning thing. Really impressive.

 

Basically, if Rezadone is applied to a clone that is 1% complete, the clone will be instantly healed up to 100% completion and be ready to work again. Rezadone is legendary, I feel like it's difficulty is well founded.

 

Now that that's all and done, here's my proposition.

 

Have certain Meds require minerals from mining. IE, Synthflesh now needs Gold/Silver instead of blood.

 

This will force chemists to make both low tier and high tier meds. Low tier for the beginning of the shift and high tier later on. This means that chemists won't just spend 19 minutes making meds and then fucking off, and they'll have more to do.

 

I've always compared Medchem to RnD. They're both things that help the station a SHIT ton, both can be completed within a reasonable time span, both can be mastered to get a shit ton of things out really quickly, both are usually abandoned, etc.

 

Meds such as Perfluoro are going to be preferred over their weaker counterparts every time. Forcing restrictions that are based off of time would force chemists to make a wider variety of meds, and force them to be more dynamic (EG, mining isn't completed). This is already the case for drugs such as Strange Reagent, which require a visit to Viro/Kitchen AND The Bar. SR is also really useful and is generally made despite these restrictions.

 

Of course, this also could just be annoying as fuck and add nothing to the game whatsoever, so opinions would be nice. I myself am neutral on the idea; I absolutely fucking hate relying on other departments to get work done.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

Have certain Meds require minerals from mining. IE, Synthflesh now needs Gold/Silver instead of blood.

 

 

Making medchem depend on the same round progression that RnD depends on actually sounds like a good idea. Low-tier and high-tier chems to make at the beginning and towards the end of a round would be great.

 

I'd completely support this, but we'd need to change A LOT of recipes to account for mining materials.