Remove "Suicide" verb

[Farya]

 

For now that verb give nothing good to the game while being a main tool for shitters who suicide at all cost after brigging fro shit they done. Even five minutes.

While people who want to leave and cant reach the cryodorm... why the even need to suicide for that? They can ghost out for the same result and people who find their body would be more likely to bring them to the cryo rather than morgue.

And people who suffer in critical have their own "succumb" verb.

 

[FreeStylaLT]

 

So you'd rather have people punching or maiming themselves with objects and flooding our legs when they want to die?

 

No thanks, man.

 

[Coldflame]

 

So you'd rather have people punching or maiming themselves with objects and flooding our legs when they want to die?

 

No thanks, man.

yes

 

[Mrs Dobbins]

 

If I had a pound for every time a thread like this is made and all of the sec players come out of the woodwork and cry about shitters suiciding after being brigged, I'd have roughly give pounds. Personally, I quite enjoy having the ability to show my dissatisfaction (in a totally victimless way) with command/sec/the crew in general which is more dramatic than just screaming at them over comms.

EDIT: although I can imagine why its frustrating to have prisoners suciciding as a sec officer, as the sec officer no longer gets to an opportunity to gloat and grandstand to their captive audience.

 

[necaladun]

 

Prisoners suiciding is fine. It means you don't have to deal with them any longer.

 

My main problems with suicide is that it's utterly shit RP. 99 out of 100 times, suicide is not used for situations where it's appropriate.

 

However, removing the verb won't stop people from doing it. There is no way we can stop people from performing the 1000 different acts that'll kill yourself in ss13. Removing the verb just means they do it in ways in which they can rejoin the round.

 

[Farya]

 

Prisoners suiciding is fine. It means you don't have to deal with them any longer.

 

My main problems with suicide is that it's utterly shit RP. 99 out of 100 times, suicide is not used for situations where it's appropriate.

 

However, removing the verb won't stop people from doing it. There is no way we can stop people from performing the 1000 different acts that'll kill yourself in ss13. Removing the verb just means they do it in ways in which they can rejoin the round.

If there is brig physician present all suicide attempts without verb will fail. And if warden is no playing security officer.

But well - why not just ghost out instead of suiciding? It would do the same but in much less shitter way.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

If I had a pound for every time a thread like this is made and all of the sec players come out of the woodwork and cry about shitters suiciding after being brigged, I'd have roughly give pounds. Personally, I quite enjoy having the ability to show my dissatisfaction (in a totally victimless way) with command/sec/the crew in general which is more dramatic than just screaming at them over comms.

EDIT: although I can imagine why its frustrating to have prisoners suciciding as a sec officer, as the sec officer no longer gets to an opportunity to gloat and grandstand to their captive audience.

 

That's totally what it is.

I mean who WOULDN'T slit their throat over a vandalism charge.

 

[necaladun]

 

Removing the verb won't stop the mindset behind it.

 

The only real option to stop this kind of behavior is banning people for suiciding without a good reason, and I'm 100% not ok with that level of enforcement for many reasons.

 

[Coldflame]

 

Removing the verb won't stop the mindset behind it.

 

The only real option to stop this kind of behavior is banning people for suiciding without a good reason, and I'm 100% not ok with that level of enforcement for many reasons.

Removing the verb makes commiting suicide interruptible and stops you doing it whilst otherwise incapacitated- it won't fix the 'suicide-in-brig' mindset but it will stop things like using the verb to 'die a glorious death' or avoiding conversion antags (which is against the rules anway)

 

There isn't a single 'good' usage of the verb I can think of, being completely honest.

 

[Doukan]

 

If people would rather leave the round than stay in it the problem is probably more to do with what's happening.

*suicide abuse is more a symptom, no reason to get rid of it other than to spare sec's immursions.

 

[Farya]

 

If people would rather leave the round than stay in it the problem is probably more to do with what's happening.

*suicide abuse is more a symptom, no reason to get rid of it other than to spare sec's immursions.

Greyride love to do shit and usually have very low opinion of the order. Security job is to uphold the law and keep the Order. So when security catch and brig shitters and there is no way to escape brig(even if there is small brig time) such as lack of people guarding prisoners(warden, brig physician) shitters starts to suicide and do other shit in their cells.

 

[Doukan]

 

Greyride love to do shit and usually have very low opinion of the order. Security job is to uphold the law and keep the Order. So when security catch and brig shitters and there is no way to escape brig(even if there is small brig time) such as lack of people guarding prisoners(warden, brig physician) shitters starts to suicide and do other shit in their cells.

And nothing of value is lost.

No need to get rid of something which has perfectly legitimate uses when the only consequence of abusing it is that sec don't get to grid fill the cells IMO.

 

[saywat_the_15th]

I mean if people want to suicide, it's their choice, let em have it.

[Cobradude]

How about making it so they can't suicide when cuffed etc.? Or make it salvagable, so suicide verb isn't guranteed death. Maybe do that by giving us a window to save them.

[Citinited]

Why take suicide so seriously? If they suicide over a brig sentence / some other trivial thing, let them kill themself, laugh it off, and send them to the morgue or crematorium.

[Dinarzad]

 

Why take suicide so seriously? If they suicide over a brig sentence / some other trivial thing, let them kill themself, laugh it off, and send them to the morgue or crematorium.

 

Because, unfortunately, people like to make Security's time as hard and as terrible as possible. The moment someone dies in the brig it turns into a cacophony of "SHITCURITY LYNCH SEC!" with some people outright lying that Sec killed the guy instead of suicide.

 

And if you think that's me exaggerating, it honestly and truly is not, I had personal experience with that when I used to play Warden. I see people punch themselves into crit in their cell and scream the warden or HoS is beating them all the time.

It's not just them killing themselves an leaving the round, it's heaping a giant mess onto someone ELSE an giving the Greytide the riot excuse they look for.

 

[SomanB]

 

Greyride love to do shit and usually have very low opinion of the order. Security job is to uphold the law and keep the Order. So when security catch and brig shitters and there is no way to escape brig(even if there is small brig time) such as lack of people guarding prisoners(warden, brig physician) shitters starts to suicide and do other shit in their cells.

 

 

 

And this is a prime example of the "hero complex" polluting security these days.

 

 

Law? Order? Broski, you're a player in a video game. You have absolutely zero authority to punish the person behind the keyboard. If they choose to remove themselves from the round via suicide, who cares?

 

I mean, sure, lets take out suicide. They can still just ghost, and "escape their just punishment". Or they can just log out, go do something else, and pop back in next round. Or just alt-tab and watch Netflix.

 

[necaladun]

 

If someone is going to kill themselves in the brig, the suicide verb is great because it at least is proof that sec didn't beat them to death and that it was self inflicted.

 

My main objection to suiciding is that it's done for OOC reasons 99% of the time, and is thus shit RP. Because it's done for OOC reasons so often, it makes it hard to properly react to it ICly.

 

Removing the verb won't stop this, people will still beat themselves to death, etc. The problem is one of player attitude and RP, which won't be solved by removing the verb. We could make it a bannable offense to commit suicide without a good reason, but I'm against that level of intervention.

 

[Cobradude]

 

Eh, it's a way lf leaving the round so let them be. They're not really "escaping justice" because now they have to sit out the entire shift, and besides, what does leaving someone in a glass box for a while actually do?

 

I think we can all agree however, that people can't kill themselves by holding their breath. This is the real issue here.

 

[Citinited]

 

Why take suicide so seriously? If they suicide over a brig sentence / some other trivial thing, let them kill themself, laugh it off, and send them to the morgue or crematorium.

 

Because, unfortunately, people like to make Security's time as hard and as terrible as possible. The moment someone dies in the brig it turns into a cacophony of "SHITCURITY LYNCH SEC!" with some people outright lying that Sec killed the guy instead of suicide.

 

And if you think that's me exaggerating, it honestly and truly is not, I had personal experience with that when I used to play Warden. I see people punch themselves into crit in their cell and scream the warden or HoS is beating them all the time.

It's not just them killing themselves an leaving the round, it's heaping a giant mess onto someone ELSE an giving the Greytide the riot excuse they look for.

 

The problem you outlined has nothing to do with the suicide verb. As necaladun stated earlier, the suicide verb leaves a lovely note telling the observer that it was self-inflicted.

 

However, if someone is willing to greytide based on hearing that security was beating some guy up and not seeing any evidence for it, ahelp them or brig their ass.

 

[Bigtimetripod]

 

Maybe as a semi-"fuck-you" to suiciders... they cannot leave their body?

 

Would be interesting, since lets say tatortot is in brig, confirmed and all that, but he has glorius death. Right now its easy. Wait til processed, thrown into perma/cell, buckle to bed, wait til noone is around and suicide. Ye greentext glorius death... but what if when ye suicide, ye cannot ghost around and have to stay on yer body? When being revived, ye cannot say no, when being borged, cannot say no, cloning aswell, as long as ye are in the body.

 

It could be a punishment to suiciders not to take that way out per say.

 

As a added note, if this gets implimented (never will, trust me) then maybe make that all people who have suicided, cannot be revived until Psychologist green lights it. After being revived, they are not released back to the station, but put under Psychologist care to... see good things in life and teach people that suicide is not the answer. Would give Psychologist a lot more stuff to do and a real job to do. After Psychologist approves the papers for the person who suicided and he thinks he can live a good life once again, then CMO stamps it and person is given back his life.

 

Giving out my 2 dimes once again.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

Why take suicide so seriously? If they suicide over a brig sentence / some other trivial thing, let them kill themself, laugh it off, and send them to the morgue or crematorium.

 

Because, unfortunately, people like to make Security's time as hard and as terrible as possible. The moment someone dies in the brig it turns into a cacophony of "SHITCURITY LYNCH SEC!" with some people outright lying that Sec killed the guy instead of suicide.

 

And if you think that's me exaggerating, it honestly and truly is not, I had personal experience with that when I used to play Warden. I see people punch themselves into crit in their cell and scream the warden or HoS is beating them all the time.

It's not just them killing themselves an leaving the round, it's heaping a giant mess onto someone ELSE an giving the Greytide the riot excuse they look for.

 

The problem you outlined has nothing to do with the suicide verb. As necaladun stated earlier, the suicide verb leaves a lovely note telling the observer that it was self-inflicted.

 

However, if someone is willing to greytide based on hearing that security was beating some guy up and not seeing any evidence for it, ahelp them or brig their ass.

 

The problem is no one reads that little note.

I have seen it happen both as Sec and a LOT as Medical. To the point where, I as a Geneticist who was giving a few powers to Sec on Captain's orders, saw a mime commit suicide in the brig. I even said over Medical radio, the mime just killed himself and to expect his body.

 

The Brig Physician comes to bring by his corpse to put in the morgue and the Doctors jumped his shit, calling the HoP and the Captain to try and get him fired for killing the mime/getting him killed.

I have countless times had to stop surgeons and doctors from trying to defib/Strange Reagent/Clone corpses that are suicide cases.

If Suicide verb is gonna be kept in that "THEY FUCKING KILLED THEMSELVES AND CANNOT BE REZZED" message, needs to be made a bold red text, instead of being identical to the other injury notes you get when you examine people. Because ATM no one reads it, especially doctors who really SHOULD read it.

 

[fludd12]

What people forget is that removing suicide will just make people ghost or close out of the game. Not only is this (arguably) even worse roleplay than suicide, it means that the officers will still have to usher the mindless body to cryodorms. Removing the suicide action won't remove people leaving the round because of dumb stuff - it'll just make it more annoying.

[FPK]

 

Okay, I've thought about this, and how about this:

 

Keep the suicide verb, but reduce it's effectiveness. You can't suicide while cuffed/restrained/incapacitated anymore, and you have to have something to suicide with. Guns, knives, cable coils, ect. will all work. No more being able to kill yourself by biting your own tongue off, however the hell that works. Also, the suicide verb is not a guaranteed death. A gunshot to the head will totally kill you oughtright, but cutting yourself and hanging will take longer, and during this time you can still be saved.

 

Coldflame is right, there's no good use for the suicide verb. From an RP standpoint it's really out of place, and from a meta standpoint it might as well be against the rules. There is no good reason for the suicide verb, outside of telling security to go fuck themselves. We already have plenty of ways for the crew to do that.

 

[SomanB]

 

Okay, I've thought about this, and how about this:

 

Keep the suicide verb, but reduce it's effectiveness. You can't suicide while cuffed/restrained/incapacitated anymore, and you have to have something to suicide with. Guns, knives, cable coils, ect. will all work. No more being able to kill yourself by biting your own tongue off, however the hell that works. Also, the suicide verb is not a guaranteed death. A gunshot to the head will totally kill you oughtright, but cutting yourself and hanging will take longer, and during this time you can still be saved.

 

Coldflame is right, there's no good use for the suicide verb. From an RP standpoint it's really out of place, and from a meta standpoint it might as well be against the rules. There is no good reason for the suicide verb, outside of telling security to go fuck themselves. We already have plenty of ways for the crew to do that.

 

 

As we've covered, sec people are annoyed by suicide because they see at as X person "escaping justice". You did the CRIME, you must do the TIME, sitting in a glass box being bored.

 

As Fludd said, turn off suicide, people will just ghost. Turn off ghost, people will just close the client. Prohibit closing the client, alt-tab to netflix is a thing.

 

Think about it, which is easier? Greytide McShitter suicides, I know he's out of the round, cancel the brig timer, cremate corpse, done. If he can't suicide, I have to leave him in the cell, then deal with clearing him and his shit out when the timer ends.

 

 

Me, I don't suicide anymore when Sec is being SoP breaking power-mad shitcurity. I alt-tab and netflix, read the news, etc. Shitcurity of that type and greytide are after the same thing, a response. Deny the response, win the game as it were.