Swarmer changes

[Kluys]

 

Swarmers in their current state are slightly to overpowered.

Mainly because of their inifnite reproductability.

I have never seen swarmers lose as soon as they spawn.

 

I would suggest limiting the amount of times a swarmer can reproduce and the amount of empty swarmer bodies that can be on the station at once.

 

[Keroman]

 

I would say that swarmers, as an event, have less of an effect on a round than xenos. If they're not tracked down early they can absolutely wreak havok, but a few sec officers armed with lasers and accompanied by a borg (or monitored by the AI) should be able to get to anywhere the swarmers might be quickly enough to dispatch them.

 

If I were going to nerf something about swarmers I'd suggest one of the following:

- Bump up the number of materials needed to reproduce to 75. (Swarmers won't be able to reproduce as quickly.)

- Remove the ability to deconstruct medical/R&D equipment. (Swarmers can't gimp the station quite so severely.)

- Increase the amount of time it takes to enter a vent or scrubber by 2-3 seconds. (Swarmers will be easier to catch, meaning the shields and traps they can set up will likely see more use, costing them resources and thus preventing them from reproducing as quickly.)

 

[LittleBigKid2000]

I saw we remove them completely. Does anyone have fun running around trying to kill the little fuckers?

[Doukan]

 

Whenever I see them in game they either get wiped out early or end up snowballing the entire station, it comes down to how busy the crew are/bothered the crew can be to weld vents/hunt the little bastards down.

All you need to wreck them absolutely is a bit of dedicated vent securing and a few borgs.

 

They're fairly balanced as is IMO, they're only OP if they're not taken seriously and allowed to reach critical mass, people seem to think "non lethal side-antag" and don't put the effort in like they do with late round blobs.

I saw we remove them completely. Does anyone have fun running around trying to kill the little fuckers?

May as well purge spess carp and the like if we go down that road, they're a nice distraction for sometimes boring rounds and are great fun to play as well.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

Space carp don't make a billion children that eat the statio- oh wait.

That said, I've always liked swarmers. I wouldn't mind seeing these nerfs, but like Doukan said, it's not really an issue.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

Every limitation listed here (Except the increased replicate cost) is broken as all get out.

Limitation to how many times they replicate, effectively makes them worthless, because after that point, you're a useless hunk of metal, devouring resources other swarmers could be using to replicate, when you can't.

Limiting how many swarmers can be on station is... COMPLETELY destroying the entire purpose of the antag. I mean it's even in the name "Swarmer".

And the two together, if we assume worst case scenario (And apparently since they're so OP, shouldn't be that unlikely a scenario to come across, right?) In that you have the max amount of swarmers, nobody can kill them, the salt is flowing freely.... only what then?

They can no longer replicate, resources they eat are totally wasted so what then.

 

Swarmers already can't devour vital equipment and anything they CAN devour is easily rebuilt and replaced. Hell they can't even eat the circuit boards machines/computers drop, if Science is being too lazy or obstinate to come help rebuild, that's... that's not the Swarmer's fault that's the fault of lazy scientists being too busy jerkin off in RnD to come help out the station.

 

Swarmer vent crawl time is already large enough to easily catch them unless they have barriers up, I've not only seen it, I have had it happen to me. all it takes is a few whacks of a baton to off a swarmer, hell even just one toolbox can put them well within range of dying on the next hit unless they blow resources on repairing themselves.

 

The simple solution is: Don;t ignore Swarmers, weld vents and they are powerless. Without vents, they have little to nothign they can effectively do. The only times people ever cry out "OP!" is during very late night rounds when we are low pop. And as I have been told time and again on other issues "We are not balanced for low pop."

 

[davidchan]

 

Honestly swarmers are one of the more balanced [side-]antags there is. The only thing they really need is to made to be follow their laws a bit more [Aggressively chasing down crew when they should be farming more of the station]. Really the only times I've seen swarmers win is when they manage to take over science and cargo so as to remove the biggest threats to them. The only problems with swarmers is people who will powergame them and actively try to cripple the stations ability to fight them rather than following their laws.

 

They are made to be a pest, making them more noticeable would fine, or even having their consumption leave tell-tale signs of their presence like unique floor tiles or damaged/destroyed machinery from their feeding frenzy.

 

Killing swarmers is very easy, a single buckshot shell will one hit them, and any competent engineering crew can isolate them. If the crew works together and hunts them in groups of 2-4 people, their disablers are useless. [Teamwork on a multiplayer game, shocking I know.]

 

tl;dr -1 don't need a nerf.

 

[SomanB]

 

Here's the magic voodoo for shutting down swarmers. Do this, and you will cripple the swarmer apocalypse.

 

Each department sends one person to cargo/engineering to get welding gear. (I recommend department heads, due to their access).

That person welds all the damn vents and scrubbers in their department.

Engineering grabs metal/glass stacks across station, stashes them in a locker.

Sec patrols areas swarmers like to eat (disposals is a prime target)

Sci builds and labels component boxes for commonly eaten things (medbay gear, cloners, etc) Do this before the swarmers eat RD servers.

AI CONSTANTLY keeps refreshing it's track list. See swarmer, report swarmer.

If crew finds an inactive swarmer core, they destroy it. Crematorium, or eject off station.

 

Swarmers have a bandwagon effect. The more it looks like swarmers are winning, the more ghosts jump on the swarmer train. Be aggressive and deny swarmers mobility and easy resources at first, less people will be willing, and able to jump in.

 

[pinatacolada]

I like throwing swarmer shells into the gateway, have fun eating the wild west nerds

[Doukan]

 

They are made to be a pest, making them more noticeable would fine, or even having their consumption leave tell-tale signs of their presence like unique floor tiles or damaged/destroyed machinery from their feeding frenzy.

I quite like the idea of this actually, they could do with being a bit more visible TBH, if nobody is diligent enough to check disposals (as is often the case) the swarmers can easily get a massive head start, some sort of loudish sound effect when they deconstruct something maybe?

Stealth munching the server rooms should probably be a bit more noticeable.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

They are made to be a pest, making them more noticeable would fine, or even having their consumption leave tell-tale signs of their presence like unique floor tiles or damaged/destroyed machinery from their feeding frenzy.

I quite like the idea of this actually, they could do with being a bit more visible TBH, if nobody is diligent enough to check disposals (as is often the case) the swarmers can easily get a massive head start, some sort of loudish sound effect when they deconstruct something maybe?

Stealth munching the server rooms should probably be a bit more noticeable.

 

Honestly, their ability to devour the RnD servers is mildly bullshit for a side antag meant to be a pest, because that's more legitimately crippling to an entire department. It should probably just be moved to the list of things they can't eat.

 

THAT SAID

Them leaving telltale signs or being loud is something I'm just "Eh" about. I don't think it would break that much if it left signs of their 'handiwork' behind or was a bit louder then typical welding noises.

 

[Lolzyking]

xenos can melt the RND server, so its not like they are the only antag that can

[Dinarzad]

 

xenos can melt the RND server, so its not like they are the only antag that can

 

Xenos are also significantly more then a side-antag and more of a round ending event.

 

[davidchan]

 

Id be on fence about the RnD server. I think its a dick move and don't really go near it less I'm desperate for metal.

 

On the one hand, lore wise it makes sense to eat it. Its full of tasty matter and behind a locked door.

 

On the other hand, its kinda like power and atmos equipment that the masters might hardcode it to be inedible, they may want what ever research and datums is on it.

 

A comprimise might be to have a black box. Its inedible and copies data from the server (or even need to manually be backed up.) Insert a disk, download the highest research level and walk it back to the RND console for upload. Would make it harder to just shutdown science but an antag intent on preventing weapon production could hold it.

 

[Kluys]

Large scale welding and some of the other things said here are only possible when there is a 50-60+ people crew, current weekday rounds are generally around 30 players.

[davidchan]

 

Large scale welding and some of the other things said here are only possible when there is a 50-60+ people crew, current weekday rounds are generally around 30 players.

 

Less players less swarmers, and it really only takes 4-5 people to button down the entire station, less if an engie borg is doing it. Last I checked Swarmers can't unweld vents either so welding off high priority rooms like RnD or Cargo means the swarmers can't sneak in either.

 

[KasparoVv]

I figure the only reasonable ways you can nerf swarmers without going overboard is to adjust the population requirement, amount of times they can reproduce, and then, lastly, git gud

[davidchan]

 

I figure the only reasonable ways you can nerf swarmers without going overboard is to adjust the population requirement, amount of times they can reproduce, and then, lastly, git gud

 

Limiting their reproduction is like limiting how many people a changling can absorb.

 

As it stands, swarmers are extremely weak when they start off, and because they always spawn at the gate its very easy for them to be spotted before they can even move.

 

ANY form of nerf suggested in this thread would need to be offset by giving swarmers the ability to unweld vents, otherwise they'll just be like old blob and so weak an assistant with a toolbox will wipe them out before they get anywhere

 

[liran424]

 

Limiting their reproduction is like limiting how many people a changling can absorb.

 

Haven't we already done that? oh wait I`m mistaken with shadowlings. pthhhh

 

[Machofish]

 

One thing that makes the swarmers unique is that there's no decisive way to tell if you've actually cleared all of them out, and every time you take attention off them, there'll always be 1 or 2 that find a way out to rebuild and recover their numbers.

 

My overall opinion on whether or not they need a 'rebalance' is neutral - they're not as bad as xenos or even revenants in some instances, but it takes a lot of attention to get them under control. One thing I like about swarmers is that no matter how many swarmers there are, they never reach a true 'critical mass' where they become feasibly impossible to stop - unlike blobs or xenomorphs, for instance.