sdtwbaj Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) This is so easily abusable and quite OP, being able to peek through a wall and see anything on the other side, even if it is locked or has no windows or view. Nano pls. Edit: Handheld cameras, not AI. Edited May 25, 2016 by Guest Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtimetripod Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 Cameras can also be upgraded to have x-ray, if science or engineers wants to do some good for the AI. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidchan Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 I believe you are referring to the X-Ray upgrade? That requires engineers to place an analyzer inside of each and every camera that would benefit from this? Borgs and drones can't do the upgrade because Analyzers can't be picked up with magnetic grippers and the engiborg analyzer is bugged that it never regenerates if placed inside a camera. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keroman Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 EDIT: To clarify to those who posted before me this isn't about AI cameras, it's about handheld cameras like you can get from the ArtVend or which spawn in several places around the station at round start. This is because of your Malf AI round yesterday isn't it? To clarify: As voxxy detective (yaya!) I was keeping a sec officer (Vah'ris Makin) company while he patrolled the station. We wound up in the locker room and I figured I might as well check the bathrooms while we were there. Door won't open, bolt lights are off, so I figure somebody might be up to no good in there, or has hidden something in there that they don't want found. I used my camera (the one from the detective's office which has 30 shots before needing film), set it to maximum coverage, 7x7, and snapped a few pictures to see what was up. Dark blue APC immediately tipped me off that the AI was malf. Sure there COULD have been a traitor who emagged it in order to frame the AI but the chances of a traitor messing with the door bolts after the fact was slim. At this point the AI started calling out that there were nukies and was the ONLY one to see them anywhere despite them supposedly being in central locations like the gravity generator. All in all using the camera didn't give me that big of an advantage. I could have strolled across the hall and grabbed a welding tool and wrench to cut my way into the bathroom, costing me all of 30 seconds to achieve the same result. I could have gone back to my office and checked the camera feed. I don't really care one way or another if the camera is changed to not allow peeking through walls, just figured I'd give some context to the thread. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 Thanks for the context Kero. I honestly didn't know this was a thing at all! Seems to not be how cameras should work, and isn't working as intended, so I agree they shouldn't have that power. ...genius idea though. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdtwbaj Posted May 25, 2016 Author Posted May 25, 2016 EDIT: To clarify to those who posted before me this isn't about AI cameras, it's about handheld cameras like you can get from the ArtVend or which spawn in several places around the station at round start. This is because of your Malf AI round yesterday isn't it? To clarify: As voxxy detective (yaya!) I was keeping a sec officer (Vah'ris Makin) company while he patrolled the station. We wound up in the locker room and I figured I might as well check the bathrooms while we were there. Door won't open, bolt lights are off, so I figure somebody might be up to no good in there, or has hidden something in there that they don't want found. I used my camera (the one from the detective's office which has 30 shots before needing film), set it to maximum coverage, 7x7, and snapped a few pictures to see what was up. Dark blue APC immediately tipped me off that the AI was malf. Sure there COULD have been a traitor who emagged it in order to frame the AI but the chances of a traitor messing with the door bolts after the fact was slim. At this point the AI started calling out that there were nukies and was the ONLY one to see them anywhere despite them supposedly being in central locations like the gravity generator. All in all using the camera didn't give me that big of an advantage. I could have strolled across the hall and grabbed a welding tool and wrench to cut my way into the bathroom, costing me all of 30 seconds to achieve the same result. I could have gone back to my office and checked the camera feed. I don't really care one way or another if the camera is changed to not allow peeking through walls, just figured I'd give some context to the thread. This isn't the only context it's usable in, there's also peeking into hiding spots, or using it to locate things that are hidden. It can ruin a lot of gud antagging Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keroman Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) Well I guess my main argument against removing the ability is that (unless you're a hardcore validhunter) you're probably only going to use it when something else has tipped you off to potential hidden antaggery. In the case of yesterday's round it was the fact that not only was the door bolted but the bolt lights were off which doesn't happen when the door gets emagged (unless they were already off which isn't something the vast majority of door hackers worry about). In all honesty I never really thought about whether or not using the camera in that way was intended or not. Given the behavior of other items in the game I thought it was just how they were supposed to work and the explanation was, "It's bluespace, I ain't gotta explain shit." If it was truly an unintended use for the camera then I'm sorry for abusing it in such a way that it messed up your round, sdtwbaj. Edited May 25, 2016 by Guest Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtimetripod Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 Ye would jave found that APC one way or the other. Every semi compitent Detective would have started to investigate why is public access area bolted... also such that is lil off from main coridors. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdtwbaj Posted May 25, 2016 Author Posted May 25, 2016 Well I guess my main argument against removing the ability is that (unless you're a hardcore validhunter) you're probably only going to use it unless something else has tipped you off to potential hidden antaggery. In the case of yesterday's round it was the fact that not only was the door bolted but the bolt lights were off which doesn't happen when the door gets emagged (unless they were already off which isn't something the vast majority of door hackers worry about). In all honesty I never really thought about whether or not using the camera in that way was intended or not. Given the behavior of other items in the game I thought it was just how they were supposed to work and the explanation was, "It's bluespace, I ain't gotta explain shit." If it was truly an unintended use for the camera then I'm sorry for abusing it in such a way that it messed up your round, sdtwbaj. I don't really mind being discovered, I was fixing to release the tesla anyway. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 If it was truly an unintended use for the camera then I'm sorry for abusing it in such a way that it messed up your round, sdtwbaj. Knowing the intentions of something coded years ago is impossible. It's not abuse atm, I think the main problem atm (and the reason for this situation) is it's not working as expected - most people wouldn't expect cameras to see through walls. I don't think it need to be removed per se, if people are made aware of it. (And maybe rename it to x-ray camera, or have something in the description, if it's kept). Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 This has been brought up before and...IIRC, there's no easy way to do it, unfortunately. I can't recall for sure though. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
necaladun Posted May 25, 2016 Posted May 25, 2016 If not, I think people just being aware of it will be a big step..but will also mean it's used more I guess. All in all, I don't see this as a massive problem tbh. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK3I Posted May 26, 2016 Posted May 26, 2016 This honestly seems like a broken feature to me, It's likely a coding oversight more than anything else and I'd consider it abuse of an exploit to do things like Kero mentioned. Just because you can doesn't mean you should and whatnot. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted May 27, 2016 Posted May 27, 2016 It does pop up every so often when someone new figures out the x-ray properties, it can be a real round ruiner when folks do it en masse. Really it wouldn't be an issue at all if the view range wasn't 7x7. Limit it something like 2x2 maybe? it'd make it a lot less abusable. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7449-remove-cameras-able-to-see-through-walls/#findComment-64845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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