Keroman Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Over the last few weeks since beekeeping has become a much more popular pastime I've found myself running into issues with a few botanists causing trouble with them. One botanist created holy water bees which eventually got out into the hallway (her fellow botanist opened one of the windoors). She was eventually arrested and brigged for drug distribution (something else she was doing unrelated to the bees), assault (the actions of the bees that escaped), and resisting arrest. Another botanist made Jagged Crystal (a drug which I'd never heard of until last night, surprisingly) bees and they got loose in the locker room while she was attempting to use a hand labeler on a locker with bees in it. She was brigged for creating a workplace hazard (for not only allowing bees loose outside of botany, even unintentionally, but also for having a variety of bottled drugs in her backpack and bringing them outside of botany.) I think we need to add some regulations to SOP and/or clarify Space Law with regards to bees. My suggestion is: SOP addition The botanist may only breed bees containing harmful chemicals (chemicals that can cause any type of damage - not counting the brute damage from bee stings - or can lead to an overdose) if given permission from the Head of Personnel (possibly CMO instead as this may have more to do with crew health). At any time the Head of Personnel may request that bees and queens containing any given chemical be destroyed. The botanist takes full responsibility for any damage the bees cause outside of hydroponics including, but not limited to, vandalism, assault, and manslaughter. Space Law addition Creating a Workplace Hazard should be amended to include bees being released from botany, regardless of the chemicals they inject with their stingers. Normally I wouldn't advocate for a specific action to be listed as this crime is more of a common-sense sort of thing however in the case of botanists who get pissy about getting in trouble when their bees get out and cause injuries it would be very helpful to be able to point to Space Law and be like, "NO EXCUSES!" Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullyBBurnalot Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Fucking bees. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyPing Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Fucking bees. Tully no pls Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPK Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 As security, if the bees get out out of botany, it's a workplace hazard. Kill any escaped bees, take the botanists in, and tell them to either kill their bees, move them somewhere safer, or build a second airlock. If they let the bees out, it's sabotage. If it's Dr. Bees, AI LOCK DOWN BOTANY SET ALL BOTANISTS TO ARREST. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted June 4, 2016 Posted June 4, 2016 Half the time I see bees get let out, it has nothing to do with the botanist, but uptight do-gooders who think they know best for the situation and bust in, letting the bees out (andddd the other half the time it's the Botanist doing silly things that they probably shouldn't). A lot of individuals who are in the "do gooder" position will bitch and whine so much (or they're sec themselves) that the botanist ends up getting arrested anyway, all because someone is mad that the situation didn't go their way. but also for having a variety of bottled drugs in her backpack and bringing them outside of botany.) Uh, they are allowed to have drugs in their backpack; they're not allowed to distribute them, but they're most certainly allowed to have it on their person. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keroman Posted June 5, 2016 Author Posted June 5, 2016 Yeah, that part about the drugs was in contention. Her brig time was never actually extended beyond the standard for Creating a Workplace Hazard. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyet Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) I see no reason to treat botanists differently than xenobiologists/scichemists/etc when it comes to the mobs they can create. If a botanist creates dangerous bees that escape, they should lose their right to raise any more bees, and be required to destroy all their existing bees, since obviously they cannot be trusted to keep them contained. If their bees kill anyone, the botanist should face a manslaughter charge. If the botanist insists on raising a variety of hostile and deadly creatures, like multiple kinds of deadly bees, they should expect to get boinked. No, "someone else let them out!" is never an excuse. You're responsible for the mobs you create. If someone breaking a window unleashes beegeddon, you've failed to secure the mobs you've been creating. Engineering exists for a reason, and is perfectly capable of reinforcing your workspace if you ask. Being a botanist is not an excuse to be terrible and get your fellow crew killed as a non-antag. Edited June 5, 2016 by Guest Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPK Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 If someone's breaking into a room full of bees, I'd think it's their fault the bees got out, not the botanists. However, botany should still build an additional airlock for bees inside of botany, or reinforce their windows with extra glass. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoS Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 As a regular botanist person who likes bees. Here is the list of things that generally causes my bees to escape despite my best efforts to avoid it. - Borgs. (many seem to use botany as a shortcut)(bees will attack them) - Maintenance drones. (usually opening doors/windoors and not closing them) - Other Botanists/People with access. (Not closing doors after leaving them) - People who hack/break their way in to be with bees. (An engineer did this recently, they hacked their way in to "die" by bees) Alternatively many command/sec/etc seem to stupidly walk into hydro when there are bees to do whatever and proceed to then complain about being stung, rush to leave and of course the bee follows them. It is then (apparently) the botanists fault that someone else chose to walk into a dangerous situation with full knowledge of the repercussions. Bee Tips & Tricks. - If being stung, kill that bee. - If being stung in botany, leave botany then kill the bee(s) attacking you. - Proceed to medbay. - Officers: Ask botanists to step outside to talk. - Don't loiter outside hydroponics if there are bees. You'll anger them. - Check the fridge, chances are if a botanist is intentionally doing malicious things the chef wont have anything good to actually use. A good botanist with bees is using them to increase the productivity and health of their plants in addition to using bees to produce difficult to obtain chemicals. I see no reason to treat botanists differently than xenobiologists/scichemists/etc when it comes to the mobs they can create. It is absolutely not fair to even compare bees to xenobiology mobs.Unless they're an antag or someone who's probably gonna get banned any xenobiology mobs are probably either player controlled (Sentient) or are passive and will not aggro anyone. Even slimes wont generally attack unless they're hungry or rabid, which is at that point probably intentional? Bees are not this way. Bees will aggro and sting people who are not wearing proper protection and who loiter needlessly outside of hydroponics (which is a past time many anti-bee-crew seem to enjoy partaking in for some reason). This means if the door opens for any reason that bee will go harass whoever they're currently focused on. Xenobiology is also in a secluded place with no windows/windoors and with a proper airlock system. Hydroponics is in a busy hallway with two normal doors and three windoors that could potentially let bees out if anyone or anything opens them. No, "someone else let them out!" is never an excuse. You're responsible for the mobs you create. If someone breaking a window unleashes beegeddon, you've failed to secure the mobs you've been creating. Engineering exists for a reason, and is perfectly capable of reinforcing your workspace if you ask. I don't really think this is a fair statement. If someone breaks into a place that has bees, walks into a place with bees or otherwise enters a place with bees it is THEIR fault for exposing themselves and other people to those bees/dangerous things. It is unfair to expect a single player to take responsibility and control other player's actions. If someone has to break a window or open a door to release the bees then they were obviously secured before that and the fault doesn't lie with the botanist who clearly was keeping them contained just fine prior to that incident. Shifting the blame is frustrating, even more so if you've actually played botany and done a lot with bees to realize that for whatever reason many borgs/maintenance drones/crew will walk into a room full of bees and lure them out and get themselves stung and then complain about it. Even if engineering adds more protection - in this example it would still be my fault as a botanist that some jerk came and welded a wall down, broke a window or opened a door and a bee stung him. This is of course assuming that any modifications to botany wont be "vandalism" and that you can actually get engineering over at a reasonable time to set something up. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 Maybe make that useless pasture space above the kitchen into a specialized apiary area? Or allow bees to be collected and stored in glass jars if you need to move them around? Unless the botanists are breeding unstable mutagen doom bees or something, it's pretty unfair to blanket blame them for not being careful enough when most of the time beeageddon happens because people barge in. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirbyroth Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 A apiary area for botany would solve most of these problems. And that pasture would make a great spot for it. Slight modification to it so they don't try and go after the chef. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 A apiary area for botany would solve most of these problems. And that pasture would make a great spot for it. Slight modification to it so they don't try and go after the chef. It'd only really need a minimum 3x3/5x5 area, that's something that can just be tacked on in the locker area to jut into maint a little. ... Does pest spray kill bees? probably should. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoS Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 A apiary area for botany would solve most of these problems. And that pasture would make a great spot for it. Slight modification to it so they don't try and go after the chef. It'd only really need a minimum 3x3/5x5 area, that's something that can just be tacked on in the locker area to jut into maint a little. ... Does pest spray kill bees? probably should. The entire point of bees (or at least why i personally use them) is so that they boost the stats of your plants. They cant do that if they're in an area that is away from the main plants. Also the pasture area is for the chef and the chef's animals. Botany does have access to it so they can tend plants back there but ultimately it's for betsy and the chickens + pig. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 The entire point of bees (or at least why i personally use them) is so that they boost the stats of your plants. They cant do that if they're in an area that is away from the main plants. Also the pasture area is for the chef and the chef's animals. Botany does have access to it so they can tend plants back there but ultimately it's for betsy and the chickens + pig. Bee jars should be a thing, or nicotine spray to knock them unconscious so you can carry them around or something. If bees being loose is half as much a problem as it's made out to be they maybe should be more strictly controlled, then again, they're space bees, just swat the bastards. Bit of a non issue unless they're meth infused. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirbyroth Posted June 5, 2016 Posted June 5, 2016 You could have a way for the bees to get to the plants while the bulk of the swarm guards the hive like good lil bees should do. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GelatinousGlob Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 The biggest problem with bees is people trying to enter botany to either attempt to kill the bees or arrest the botanist. Just the other week I got a 1 week botany jobban because the HoS forced their way into botany, knowing full well I had 5 apiaries full of bees, got stung to shit while shooting me with lethals, then ran out into the hall releasing the majority of the bees into the hallway, then complained to admins until I got in trouble because he died from all the chems in his body reacting. Before then I had multiple attempts by people to break into botany and I had repaired the windows multiple times. Bees are perfectly fine as long as the botanist isn't purposefully leaving the door open. 95% of the time bees escape because other people open botany against the botanist's wishes and leave the door open. Plus bees are pretty damn easy to kill, but people are dumb and try to run away from them. Botany could use some more room to accommodate bees and plants while allowing some extra doors to be built. The way some people act with bees is the same as if I busted my way into xenobiology and broke open the pens and tried to beat a slime to death with a crowbar, quite simply it's lunacy. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirbyroth Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 Perhaps installing privacy shutter for botany to close when people start trying break down the windows. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keilden Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 Would you blame the virologist if a random person broke in there and dragged out infected monkeys? Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farya Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 Would you blame the virologist if a random person broke in there and dragged out infected monkeys? Virology is very secluded and secure part of the station. You need medbay access to even reach its entrance. Botany is divided from hallway with only glass windows. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keilden Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 Would you blame the virologist if a random person broke in there and dragged out infected monkeys? Virology is very secluded and secure part of the station. You need medbay access to even reach its entrance. Botany is divided from hallway with only glass windows. People wanted to compare Botany and Xenobiology so I just added in Virology in the way diffrent areas. Link to comment https://www.paradisestation.org/forum/topic/7513-the-bees-theyre-not-in-my-space-lawsop/#findComment-65493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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