Streaky's hopefully low-code pAI suggestions.

[Kirbyroth]

 

Ian is the decedent of Lassie confirmed lol. lol if you think them moving people from danger is bad i saw Ian help fighting the blob last night.

 

Anyways PAIs arnt going to wounder the station on their own. Moving around in their master department is fine though. If need to go fetch a tool or item across the hall while their master busy with something is useful. Like Botanist having them fetch some chems from med chems. Or getting some research items for scientists.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

All the player controlled NPCs who actually could do stuff have been heavily cut down in their abilities (e.g Nymphs, Drones). I think they are all as boring and useless as the pAI. I know they are meant to be different from normal players and they already come with the insane disadvantage, in that they barely enjoy any protection via server rules. But since they all lost the abilitly to do stuff i don't want to play them anymore. I do understand the sentiment of admins not wanting to police them, but i as a player have to disagree with that because it makes them a silly excuse for what they were.

 

Why do i as a normal player who is playing a drone have to run back and forth 20 times to move all the stuff, that i could just have transported in a box or a locker (think control boards or atmos pipes, don't get me started on fucking atmos pipes)? Only because some griffer could use it for god knows what? I don't see how that even helps against griffers, if i want i can still fuck with all the apcs, air alarms and and break stuff or even attack players.

 

[Da Dman234]

 

"Have no responsibility" is not a very harsh law. Enforced, sure, but it's REALLY not a harsh one. And Posibrain has the same laws as all cyborgs, but that's just it. you return to the match as a fuckin CYBORG. That's basically a respawn button given cyborgs are a round-start role you can spawn into. Not to mention as a positronic brain you might not even be Borged, I see plenty of posi-brains be turned into a new flippin Station AI or Piloted Mechs.

That's not very "Death is a penalty" unless we start REALLY nitpicking around what "Is or is not a punishment" due to the law restrictions. You're still a walkin, talkin, RP'n robot who has defined jobs an roles.

Drones are quite literally not allowed to interact with anyone on the station, and there is exactly ONE posibrain on the station that observers have first dibs on. Very rarely are more made because of the extremely high tech and material level required. I exclusively play science and I can say I hardly ever see these made, so no, dead players don't usually get to play borg unless their own brain is placed inside of it.

 

And really, Death shouldn't be a "Penalty", at least not in THIS sense. There's no "I WON SS13!" Because there's nothing to win or lose or to punish, the name of the game is roleplay, even Goonstation and other low RP servers still have roleplay in there to a degree, the objectives of both crew and antags are ther eto push roleplay along, Antags are ther eto spice up the round to make for roleplay beyond "Work Simulator 2556". Having a "Penalty" is that you died and can't be cloned, why do we need more punishment then that? What purpose does it serve to point at people and go "He died, he's terribad, he shouldn't be allowed anymore fun."

Why do you keep bringing up leaderboards and winning? I've in no way shape or form implied that's the case. Are you really going to make me explain why dying should carry big penalties and something that can be easily made should remain weak?

 

Setting things on tables happen, people forget to grab things, it happens a lot. Basic all-access door access is NOT asking for the moon, nor is it asking for the ability to wander the station freely. We're talking the ability to wander Hallways and the Dorms.

With basic door access PAI's could quite literally be halfway across the station from their master for whatever reason. I still have yet to see a valid reason for that other than "I forgot him" or "I need him to get a single item I'm too lazy to get". If you're forgotten not only do I believe you're doing a crappy job as a PAI, but you also have a PDA and radio to call him back for christ's sake, so that's not a valid argument in the slightest.

So, for the third time, PAI's should not leave thier masters side. You have yet to provide even a semi-decent reason as to why they should be able to do so, because allowing them to would not only make more potential problems with antags, but also with PAI's not liking their masters and simply leaving.

 

No. They are not different. pAI are just "Minor roles" for dead people to occupy to faff around without responsibility and waste time right? Well that's the SAME ROLE as what respawning as a simple mob is for, to faff around an give dead people/observers something minor to screw with to occupy themselves.

Only one of them can "Freely wander the Station" as well as manipulate objects (I have personally seen Ian's make a fuckin yakkity sax with objects to keep them away from antags or deliver shit to security.) Ian may not be able to talk (Without using some weird bugs.) But he can do way more then that. Ian can drag PEOPLE. AWAY From Antags or from dangers. You know how many times I have watched that corgi haul in a dead HoP to medical?

 

The ONLY APPRECIABLE difference, is one has an in-built radio and doesn't need to do glitchy exploits to speak human words.

Yes, they are. Are you saying you join as a PAI with the same intention as if you join as Ian? Ian has no expectations placed on him, and is not meant to assist his master. If he's roaming the station and chooses to do so then that's that, but he is in no way required to, nor do you see him frequently doing so. PAI's are meant to stay with and assist their master, and are currently given the proper tools to do so. It's not fair or in good taste to cite Ian shittery as a reason that PAI's should be buffed.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

First off, 'D kinda appreciate if you cooled your jets a bit.

You're gettin' randomly aggressive over this. Long post =/= me flailing on my keyboard in a huff, so you can totes chill out with the "In poor taste" and shit, cuz the moment this stops being a civil debate is the moment I'm just gonna peace out cuz it's *really* not worth it over minor pAI suggestions that in all likelihood are not gonna get coded in anyway.

 

That said, moving on to the topic at hand:

there is exactly ONE posibrain on the station that observers have first dibs on. Very rarely are more made because of the extremely high tech and material level required.

It's almost as if I suggested upping the tech/material cost of pAIs if some of these suggestions went through and you totally ignored those points to hammer in this one. To paraphrase "It'd be worth upping their tech/mat cost for the sake of getting some of these improvements."

Add in more data and material theory (Foldy flippy forms are clearly advanced matierals if they can also become robots.) and add a Gold/Silver cost.

 

Why do you keep bringing up leaderboards and winning? I've in no way shape or form implied that's the case.

The SEVERAL places you've directly mentioned 'Death should penalize people' is sort of mentioning it. Because that's BASICALLY saying "You lost the game, you should be punished for it with X or Y" and because you dragged that notion into the debate by bringing that subject up. But, I clearly failed in my explanation while trying and failing to make the post at small of a wall as I could and since there's uncertainty as to why it was mentioned, so I'll try to fix where I fucked up:

 

IF you die an cannot be revived, you already HAVE your big penalty. You cannot be revived. Your time as a crewman of the Cyberiad has come to conclusion, you don't get to do crewman things anymore, that IS your penalty. Adding this "These roles shouldn't be able to do anything decent because they're minor because they're just for ghosts to rejoin the game" on top of it, is wholly unnecessary especially when it's not like the argument is to give pAI Station AI level access or power, but basic door access that literally everything on the station gets, including random animals or *CONTRACT TERMINATED CREWMAN* (AKA: Even people that have had the hammer brought down on them ICly by Admins can do this function. Why shouldn't THAT be more/as punishing then 'I am unrobust and died'?).

 

And it's also not BOUT "But they shouldn't leave their master" That literally doesn't even SLIGHTLY factor into it, because a rogue pAI is: 1: Going to do nothing and 2: Prolly get job banned for fucking off into deep space because he got tired of the HoP an is ignoring his directive. This is something everything and EVERYONE can do. All the things forever can do it, so NOT doing it, makes no sense and is inconsistent as all hell.

A fuckin' Corgi shouldn't be able to open airlocks, it's a dog that has no idea how to door, and yet it is a functioning mechanic because it is quality of life that makes someone's playtime NOT frustrating as shit an in general let's 'em play the game as long as they're not bein dicks.

Does it really *REALLY* Impact the round THAT much and if so please explain why cuz I do NOT understand even SLIGHTLY why it shouldn't happen. (And no "Because they shouldn't leave their master" is not a valid reason, because mindless Dogs also shouldn't be able to open an ID-based airlock system and should stick by their master too, and yet...

 

So, for the third time, PAI's should not leave thier masters side. You have yet to provide even a semi-decent reason as to why they should be able to do so, because allowing them to would not only make more potential problems with antags, but also with PAI's not liking their masters and simply leaving.

For the third time, this is still not valid reasoning because it applies to nothing else in the game. Just because you repeat it, doesn't make it more valid then the first time. But if you want a reason then see the above. Because "But then they'll leave." is not a valid reason because that's blatant disregard for your directive "Serve your Master" (Your ONLY ONE too, unless the owner opts to add one), if you fuck off into outer space because you don't like them, then grats on doing the exact same thing as a Drone ignoring their laws and receiving the same punishment. It's Quality of Life that is so low impact that I cannot believe THIS is one of the huge sticking points to all of this, I sort of figured it'd be the 'Crew monitor' suggestion not hallway doors.

"Allowing more trouble for antags"

If we're gonna pull the 'If you get forgotten you prolly suck' card, then I can pull the "If you get chased down in a hallway by a pAI an that's why you lost, you probably suck as antag." one. Solution: Kill the pAI, they're super fragile 2-3 whacks oughta do it. They're hilariously breakable in mobile form so if it wants to chase you down, you get to fulfill the antag wet dream and crush the little fucker under your heel. The problem is now solved permanently.

 

If he's roaming the station and chooses to do so then that's that, but he is in no way required to, nor do you see him frequently doing so

You mean like how pAI can be unbound/have no master an is thus capable of roaming if set free or the death of their owner? "Ian Shittery" was not the point, you're arguing out semantics and ignoring the context and point. I don't think pAI's should be able to drag items, I don't think they need the ability to haul their master's into medical.

The point is and was, if this DIRECTLY COMPARABLE Side role, in the form of a fuckin dog can open an airlock door so that he has quality of life to be able to walk places, then it's not asking for a tremendous power leap to CONSIDER the possibility that it might be okay for a pAI to be able to touch their face to a door too.

 

TL;DR: IF they're going to have a mobile form AT ALL. IT probably should be able to be MOBILE. Else it's better off to kill it altogether because it's pointless. You're MORE Mobile being on their person at all times, hell encouraging pAI to be in mobile form more often is a NERF to them, because now that "Living Death alarm" can be separated from his master and not tattle on your every move.

 

[Da Dman234]

 

First off, 'D kinda appreciate if you cooled your jets a bit.

You're gettin' randomly aggressive over this. Long post =/= me flailing on my keyboard in a huff, so you can totes chill out with the "In poor taste" and shit, cuz the moment this stops being a civil debate is the moment I'm just gonna peace out cuz it's *really* not worth it over minor pAI suggestions that in all likelihood are not gonna get coded in anyway.

In no way shape or form was that intended as aggressive, merely what I saw it as. If you took offense to that then I apologize, that was not the intention. That being said, I feel like I've made my point in my previous posts, so I'm going to discontinue this little debate and chalk it up to differences in opinion, since this is going nowhere.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

First off, 'D kinda appreciate if you cooled your jets a bit.

You're gettin' randomly aggressive over this. Long post =/= me flailing on my keyboard in a huff, so you can totes chill out with the "In poor taste" and shit, cuz the moment this stops being a civil debate is the moment I'm just gonna peace out cuz it's *really* not worth it over minor pAI suggestions that in all likelihood are not gonna get coded in anyway.

In no way shape or form was that intended as aggressive, merely what I saw it as. If you took offense to that then I apologize, that was not the intention. That being said, I feel like I've made my point in my previous posts, so I'm going to discontinue this little debate and chalk it up to differences in opinion, since this is going nowhere.

 

I can agree to that.

And I'm sorry if I saw something that wasn't there an assumed you were getting irate. In hindsight, was sorta hypocritical of me to be like "STOP ASSUMIN I AM MAD" an then assuming you were the same, so for that, I am sorry.