Should roleplay really take a backseat?

[Radithor]

 

Hi guys, bit of a rant ahead

 

So I am a lurker, I post every now and then but I mostly like to read the forums, and what I have been reading lately is the rising issue of paradise station's metagaming along with powergaming and the loss of the RP's aesthetic. I come out of the forum shadows to put my in my view as the 'average-joe' of ss13's roleplay issue, a player who has been here long enough to not be a newbie but also who has stayed here for a short enough period to not be a veteran.

 

I'd like to imagine there are a quite a few players like myself, for example we probably know how to do R&D but not pump the reseach levels to 4000 in 10 minutes, or we know how to break into doors but not so much subvert the A.I to murderbone a target, what I mean is we are still working out the game but know enough to 'survive'.

 

I come out because I notice the usual discussion about these issues has points risen from the everyone, good points in fact, but also I have read a few points with some contradiction. What I read on one thread was that roleplay was put aside to make the game more 'fun' in the name of effeciency so people could play a round with a decent length and get something done besides having to leave the station so 15 minutes in because the tesla got loose and eats the station. People have stories they are following that go from one round to the next, and a good story requires time, but at the same time there is a lack of people who can fufill roles such as an engineer or medical doctor decently as the other nooblets are running in grey uniforms hacking doors.

 

A vicious circle begins to form, players can't interact with other players in certain job roles because they are too busy doing more than one job to prevent catastrophe so they can have some time to roleplay but they can't roleplay because they're doing too many jobs and trying to 'win' so they can roleplay or some personal goal. Relationships are formed but because of the gap between experienced and inexperienced players, the experienced end up only roleplaying with the experienced because they have someone to keep up with them, same goes with the newbies who play with newbies because they have people who don't rush a ahead and not allowing them to achieve their learning curve. Time is strained, 2 hours don't seem long enough at this point, antags are caught quickly through metagaming so the round can end 3 hours in with decent roleplay.

 

Then comes the cons of all these fruitless motions. Antags begin playing like poo because everyone has got an eye out for the slightest bit of evidence they are there, we got a rune in maint, "We have cult" is hollered over the comms and security suddenly starts jamming holy water down everyone's throats, secret rounds are no longer secret because we put roleplay aside and the antag is discouraged unless they're Sam Fisher's and Mac Gyver's lovechild. I noticed the rounds that have more success in the sense of 'fun' are the ones where roleplay is involved, I noticed vox trading rounds are considered fun because well the vox negotiate, have to interact with people they never usually roleplay with, think carefully how to get the goods they need. One time I played a cortical borer, it was so fun because I met someone I usually don't roleplay with and actually got to roleplay without the stresses of trying to keep the job afloat because I haven't had the time to really figure it out.

 

One example where effeciency was placed over roleplay, after several long minutes of reading BB code and figuring out paperwok on the station when I played IAA, now IAA is primarily roleplay which requires a level of paperwork. I created 'warrants', warrants written through the intention that if a person does not comply with the warrant stamped by a member of command then they will be considered a criminal and under the mercy of legal means. However the purpose of the warrant was quickly thrown aside because "We don't need it." as the mentality associated with antags is that, "If I vaguely find a slither of evidence that X is any of the the antags possible in a secret round then I can arrest them, bugger the roleplay, just follow SOP and you won't get job banned." This makes the antag not want to roleplay, first of all, and secondly they get thrown in perma because they haven't been able to creatively decide how to hide their goods as security meta'ed the hell out of them.

 

Second example of roleplay reduction is in science, I am terrified of science, I tried to R&D, did it for 15 minutes and the RD flies in saying I'm not doing a good job, kicks me out and maxes all the reasearch no roleplay no help just a powergaming orgy, I try to get back into the job otherwise I am no better than a greytider. I also found that once a player finds you incompetent in a role they disregard your ability in everything else, berate you like a 12 year-old on an x-box game then you're done...

 

Tell me, is it considered roleplay if a player shouts over comms "The Engineer is so fucking dumb, didn't even set up tesla, fucking dumbass." Game speak being used over the comms is toxic, it makes you want to abandon the role entirely. The role is abandoned, noone wants to play the role because if you screw up once, well the entire station craps on you. Now imagine if you were on a real space station, everything professional as expected in a mega-corporation, noone uses the comms like a discord text chat, work gets done, everyone develops at there own pace, command roles are taken seriously, people can and will interact with other players, build relationships, make their own characters.

 

I found I have yet to create a solid character because I am too busy trying to figure out the game but at the same time being robbed of the time to learn so others can roleplay without suffering the drawbacks of not maintaining the station.

I would like to remind people that it is equally fun to have a few drawbacks, not enough minerals for science? Well instead of going to mining yourself and racking in the diamonds you could spend some time with another player, learning of their character, interacting with yours. The lesa is loose? Make this a beautiful moment where one of you are going to die to save the others, a heartfelt goodbye as the hero walks into the chaos with a tear running down his cheek while his loved one is held back by others from trying to run after him.

 

A lot of people have forgotten why roleplay is fun, you become your character, you are no longer you. Now I'm not saying that roleplay and efficiency are in competition but we can't have one without the other. You create a story that you would eagerly get back into instead of single-handedly making the station run smoothly. I encourage a lot of players to not let roleplay take a backseat but sit beside efficiency of the station so that the drawbacks of roleplay are no longer a problem.

 

So from what I imagine is that people can learn, through everyone learning ,the station's stability is more likely to be possible, antags would be more creative in their missions, people will interact more and no longer in their bubbles of safety, roleplay stories will have actual flavor, characters created and recognized, toxicity dampened and the station more friendly to deal with.

 

Ofcourse this is just my input, the opinion of a normal neutral paradise station player, I don't mean this with any ill intent to other players but this is what I have experienced and felt about roleplay overall. Thoughts?

 

[Jakers457]

 

I kind of skimmed over the post, so pardon me. But I think it's in an awkward place on this server due to the fact that fun is a subjective thing, and that server is built around the idea of having fun. So with being mediumRP or whatever, finding the balance between a naked assistant dryhumping a beepsky and having two hours of chairRP seems pretty hard.

 

My first server was BestRP, but it was kind of a shitshow most of the time. Security was awful (you guys are spoiled here, albeit the vicious valid hunts,) Medbay was deemed redbay as you'd get put into a cryotube without it being turned on and the Captain would have a quilt draped his head so he looked like a ghost. Seriously, I just ended up doing barfights and hospitalizing people so I could play the round without being harassed by balds. Eventually I got bored, the departments slowly got more dysfunctional with small pockets of people trying to roleplay.

 

I then went to a server by the name of Aurora, played an Engineer on my first round there, and people actually acted like Engineers (for a while anyway) and it was pretty nice. I think I stuck with that server for a year or so before roleplay became too... choking. If you were Security, looking for an armed and dangerous individual in the tunnels? God forbid tazing them on sight, despite clearly seeing they have a gun and you being in a bottle neck. You'd get ahelped or bitched about for doing what you're character would do on instinct, rather than listen to a villainous monologue or whatever. The whole concept of telling a story became more of some people having the mindset of 'how does this benefit my roleplay' which was either whispering to eachother in the corner, or expecting a back and forth between antag and crew.

 

I'm not shitting on those servers by any means, they're just different ways of running things and that I'm just not a fan. But goes back to my original point, it's very hard finding a balance between the two. Thankfully there are a good amount of people here, who care about their characters and do play out their roles. Sure you get some... questionable people now and then, while the greytide is real. As you've already said, the biggest hindrance to roleplay is the massive valid boners that some people get. People really like to win, but that's what they find fun.

 

So to TLDR; embrace the chaos, get to know the other characters that roleplay and also! Use the mentortab for doing things. And when it comes to having to do multiple things at once so that station runs? Don't, hindering your own enjoyment for the sake of others is silly.

 

[SpaceTimeNow]

 

Ofcourse this is just my input, the opinion of a normal neutral paradise station player, I don't mean this with any ill intent to other players but this is what I have experienced and felt about roleplay overall. Thoughts?

For me It perfectly descripes the situation of paradise right now. I have been playing on this server since day one so if feel some kind of responsibility, but a lot has changed and this is sadly what the community has become. I really wish we could change again, but sadly i have not much hope for that.

 

[SomanB]

 

Just to get this out the way....I think you are one of the VERY few people who consider Vox rounds fun. The vast majoirty of the playerbase considers Vox rounds to be one of the worst roundtypes, because "hihi we is tradies" is amazingly BORING.

 

As for the rest, I personally don't find "chair RP" to be much fun. It comes off as very stilted and forced, the vast majority of the time. I'd go so far as to say cringeworthy. I avoid it, because, if anything, that's not how you'd realistically interact with your co-workers. If I wanted that level of role-playing, I would play a game that caters to it. Using SS13 as a glorified chat room just isn't much fun.

 

As for new people, the vast majority of the jobs on station are covered on the wiki, under "guide to", or job pages themselves. when newbies run up and say "teeech me dis!", it comes off more as "I'm too lazy to wiki", than "I want to arrrrpeee you." Trying to get someone to IC teach you the mechanics of a job, in-game, in-character is brutally, brutally slow. I have little time, or inclination to do such things, because *I* logged in with the goal of playing the job I was assigned, not be a teacher.

 

And yes, for some jobs, you will get kicked out/replaced if you are super slow. Upgrades need to go out promptly, the engine needs set up fast, and the worst place to learn surgery is on someone who's depending on you to get them back into the game.I'm not going to spend 45 minutes watching a newbie bumble through an engine setup (while likely screwing it up), just so they can learn how. I'm going to tell them to back up and watch me while I get the job done.

 

[Dumbdumn5]

 

After reading the original post, I can concur with a number of points made. R&D being maxed out while I take it slow only to have somebody rush in and max everything without so much as a "Hi" or even the "You suck at this, get out!", just silence. For me, the only thing roleplay has to be put aside for is rules, but that's because I'm an administrator who has to be some big scary guy with a hammer.

 

For roleplay, I try a combination of "chair RP" and my own blabbermouth style that very rarely gets responded to. I try to talk anywhere I have space to. During surgery, if the patient is awake, I talk to the patient, during sec, I talk to the prisoners or if I'm caught myself, the interrogators, I BS with command and randoms who come into the bar and chat up the people eating the donk pocket I just warmed up, but I only get replies from people I end up already knowing. It's a strange feeling to have somebody just walk off without a word, but you can never really tell if it's intentional or they're just busy and chat is being spaced during travel or work. I'll write more when I have time, but, try to make things interesting by trying to start conversations anywhere, you don't have to a sarcastic jackass like me, but any words can spark a long talk session.

 

[Toroic]

 

I personally think OP comes from a very different, casual style of game and seems to be missing the fundamental nature of ss13 as a disaster simulator, not a 2D second life.

 

First comes competence, then roleplay, then the ability to do wacky shenanigans. If someone is not competent as a chemist and we don't have mutadone 40 minutes into the round (and 10 min after I ask for it) the only RP we're gonna have is me yelling at you to pull your shit together and threatening a demotion to assistant.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

And yes, for some jobs, you will get kicked out/replaced if you are super slow. Upgrades need to go out promptly, the engine needs set up fast, and the worst place to learn surgery is on someone who's depending on you to get them back into the game. I'm not going to spend 45 minutes watching a newbie bumble through an engine setup (while likely screwing it up), just so they can learn how.

 

So... you're going to not let them do the role they took to try and learn in, because they don't know how to do it all that well yet.

But you're also going to do nothing whatsoever to fix that problem, and just shove them off.

 

I understand not wanting to spend your round having to teach someone else how to do things, that's fine. Not everyone is in a mood to teach like all the time an some people want to join a round to have their round be enjoying, not playing at being a college lecture. You don't HAVE to teach anyone a darn thing, you play to have fun, no one will blame you for having fun an not taking time out of your day.

 

... But the EXACT thing you DON'T like, you're doing to someone else. Yeah. You logged you with the goal of playing the job you were assigned, not being a teacher.

...... And then you shove some newbie out, preventing him from doing that same exact thing, because he wasn't super tops leet pro right off the git-go.

 

If you don't want to teach new people that's fine, but don't -sabotage- them trying to self-learn when you don't want to take the time to teach them either. People have to learn, and the wiki is nice but it is *NOT* The end-all and be-all of learning SS13, it has several finer points not labeled and even some not finer points. There is no instruction on it talking about the Tesla engine as far as I know. It ONLY talks about the Singularity. Some some new engie, who has never engie'd before, would have no idea there's no major differences in setting up the Tesla engine compared to the Sing.

 

So maybe "Read the wiki" is not the ultimate solution, and those people who are 'failing their way through RnD' or 'Scrubbing up the engine set up' are trying to get better at it. Especially when RnD upgrades not being sent out is the most first world problem in all of SS13, the station runs perfectly fine without them, they're neat bonuses for Science being on the ball, if people have gotten to the point they can't live without them, then that's on them, not the fautl of the guy trying to learn how to do more stuff/how more of the game works.

 

This is EXACTLY how you get a lot of people going "I have never done that department before, I'm too scared to try". We were all just as "Scrubby" once upon a time, but nobody elects to remember that part when they forcefully throw people out of RnD, or in some cases outright FIRE someone for not being the best.

 

[Vivalas]

 

It honestly seems like the OP would fit in better on a HRP server. I played on BS12 for about 3-4 years before coming here and its recent death saddens me. I had so many great memories with that station and the merc rounds were the best (I fucking played as a space hitler wrestler named the Fascist Fist as the whole merc team tried to wrestle the station for the champion belt. There are different kinds of servers because people have different tastes. I used to play HRP almost exclusively but started leaning to Paradise for something new, and I loved it. The pace was perfect, and, I've said it again and again, the perfect mix of RP and action. Well things have changed a bit, and that's not entirely true but I still like it.

 

I really play in cycles. I used to switch between goon and Bay when I got tired of RP or got tired of mindless violence. I love engineering, med, and science on HRP because the RP is so fucking great (especially in science if you're creative, xenoarch used to be my honeypot). That's really the main reason I play command and security almost exclusively on Paradise, the other departments feel so meta'd out there's almost no need to play them.

 

But rose-tinted rant aside, you probably should try a few rounds on Bay or Polaris. You might really like it. I wish there were more meta restrictions on Paradise, but I don't think it should be full HRP. When I first started playing here that balance was perfect and we've started shifting more towards the LRP end (3 big things: tesla, goonchem, and cryo auto-eject / magic defibs).

 

[MrRogueAce]

 

I was thrown out of RnD by the RD once, dude said I was the worst person ever because I had no idea what I was doing, just causally taking things and seeing if they up'd the tech levels, and that got me really mad. I couldn't play the rest of the round after that...

I can set up both the sing and tesla in under 2 minutes, successfully, I can do surgery just as fast (unless it's recently added things that get confusing), but RnD is hard for me because nobody will teach me and there's nothing on the wiki about the order you're suppose to scan things (for some reason I have no clue about).

 

[SkyPing]

 

I was thrown out of RnD by the RD once, dude said I was the worst person ever because I had no idea what I was doing, just causally taking things and seeing if they up'd the tech levels, and that got me really mad. I couldn't play the rest of the round after that...

I can set up both the sing and tesla in under 2 minutes, successfully, I can do surgery just as fast (unless it's recently added things that get confusing), but RnD is hard for me because nobody will teach me and there's nothing on the wiki about the order you're suppose to scan things (for some reason I have no clue about).

 

Here ya go, Ace

 

[Kyet]

 

I was thrown out of RnD by the RD once, dude said I was the worst person ever because I had no idea what I was doing, just causally taking things and seeing if they up'd the tech levels, and that got me really mad. I couldn't play the rest of the round after that...

I can set up both the sing and tesla in under 2 minutes, successfully, I can do surgery just as fast (unless it's recently added things that get confusing), but RnD is hard for me because nobody will teach me and there's nothing on the wiki about the order you're suppose to scan things (for some reason I have no clue about).

Try this: http://monster860.github.io/rndTool.html

 

[Dumbdumn5]

 

I was thrown out of RnD by the RD once, dude said I was the worst person ever because I had no idea what I was doing, just causally taking things and seeing if they up'd the tech levels, and that got me really mad. I couldn't play the rest of the round after that...

I can set up both the sing and tesla in under 2 minutes, successfully, I can do surgery just as fast (unless it's recently added things that get confusing), but RnD is hard for me because nobody will teach me and there's nothing on the wiki about the order you're suppose to scan things (for some reason I have no clue about).

Try this: http://monster860.github.io/rndTool.html

Bah, that's cheating!

 

[Radithor]

 

Well I took some time to read all the replies and I have more of an understanding.

 

Although I would like to clear something up, I am not saying do away with the action and focus only on rp, if I did then I would go on a text based roleplay forum and spend my life tapping away at the keyboard. Like many others here I enjoy a lot of qualities paradise has to offer, the action being a big plus, I get seriously amped when an alien is chasing me down and I barely escape, hell even when the tesla is loose I get anxiety if there isn't a locker nearby. Though based on the posts I would like to point out some things.

 

I'm going to tell them to back up and watch me while I get the job done.

 

This^ is understandable, from SomanB, I wouldn't imagine disregarding older players because I mean they have been here longer, they know what to do to have their fun, but one main thing in paradise I learnt is that in order to get better at the job you have to do it yourself not watch someone else, for example R&D is a highly demanding job, pretty much one of the points of the station's existence, lore wise but shouldn't that mean everyone should get a fair chance at it atleast? I mean the reason roles such as A.I, Captain, HoS or what have you that are harder roles ARE there for more experienced players, then again that is restricting the older players to those roles as much as the newbies to the easier ones not being given a chance to tinker, I am curious as to how the gap between newbie and veteran will be resolved, perhaps tutorials? I heard you can make your own server and practice there but I and maybe some others are not tech savvy to do that, I'll check that out

 

I personally think OP comes from a very different, casual style of game and seems to be missing the fundamental nature of ss13 as a disaster simulator, not a 2D second life.

 

I have been playing SS13 for about 3 years on and off, but paradise for a year after I found it. I am aware of the nature of this game but I am more curious as to why this particular server, compared to the others is so oddly dynamic. I see characters here with interesting backstories and at the same time the players themselves can build 5 engines at once without breaking a sweat or I could be on bath salts and seeing things strangely. I am curious as how a player can achieve that 'balance', clearly the game has balance, the system works, but the players from different levels of experience do not have balance with one another and the only way I can imagine someone forming a relationship with other players IC to bridge this gap is through RP, it gives time to learn, time for action as well...

 

But rose-tinted rant aside, you probably should try a few rounds on Bay or Polaris. You might really like it. I wish there were more meta restrictions on Paradise, but I don't think it should be full HRP. When I first started playing here that balance was perfect and we've started shifting more towards the LRP end (3 big things: tesla, goonchem, and cryo auto-eject / magic defibs).

 

I just might look into those servers but you hit the nail on the head of what I am thinking with that last bit.

 

I was thrown out of RnD by the RD once, dude said I was the worst person ever because I had no idea what I was doing, just causally taking things and seeing if they up'd the tech levels, and that got me really mad. I couldn't play the rest of the round after that...

I can set up both the sing and tesla in under 2 minutes, successfully, I can do surgery just as fast (unless it's recently added things that get confusing), but RnD is hard for me because nobody will teach me and there's nothing on the wiki about the order you're suppose to scan things (for some reason I have no clue about).

Try this: http://monster860.github.io/rndTool.html

 

Don't worry MrRogueAce, I accidentally botched an E.X.P.E.R.I.M.E.N.T.O.R run-through, I recall the other player had level 11 criminal tech, then he went SSD, not knowing what the machine actually does...well let's just say it was a dark day for science when a clueless newbie touches someones work...Ofcourse this wouldn't have happened if I had time to tinker with it, understand it, but I am pushed aside for the sake of SCIENCE.

 

Tnx for teh link!11! ,tzo<3

 

I would like to hear an opinion that doesn't revolve around "git gud" concepts and I am not asking other players to change the way the play for the sake of others, just maybe something from the veterans about how they managed to make characters that they are able to roleplay with, without botching their role on the station... I think it is some solution to this gnawing background issue.

 

I would appreciate if someone would correct me if I am wrong here, hell tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can atleast get somewhere.

 

[Dumbdumn5]

 

-snip-

It depends mainly on the attitude of the player behind the character. For me, I'm a manual medbay guy, not much for chemistry, but hell on genetics and physical surgery/treatment. I try to spark conversation constantly and make comments on what I see, so instead of looking at a sheet of paper from the scanner and saying mentally "Huh, broken leg, I better fix this up" I'll say IC "GEEZE! How'd you bust this one up?" or if I see somebody walk in almost burnt into crit, instead of slapping them with some burn meds immediately I'll ask how the hell they got fried or lit up like a Christmas tree. I try for humor in every area, anything that could be commented on, I comment on, but mostly because I'm a blabbermouth myself. When things in the shift lull, I go to the bar or library to talk to people, any people, regardless of whether I know them or not beforehand, but I always keep an eye on the monitor and my radio to see if somebody could be busted. If you're typing something already and you get stopped in the middle of it or have to run, try sending what you were going to say in full, but with a "-" at the end. Try to ask people about their story, how they ended up on the station, basic stuff you'd ask somebody you've never met before and have some kind of interest in. They might tell a lot or a little, but if you ask, it's more likely they'll ask you the same question. Be outgoing, go and try to grab somebody's attention through appeal, make them laugh and then drag them in close for a talk session. You don't need to talk for half the shift, sure, but you can do it in between work. Call a conference if you want to have a chat with somebody or hear some ideas as a head of staff, man the desk and chat up others if you're working medical, or if you're in genetics, try blabbing to your partner. Department radios are a lifesaver and conversation maker, be active, talk into it, if not to find people, then to hear yourself talk. Don't force yourself to act as the character just because you're playing the character, use some uncommon sarcasm or wit in your speech at times, or if you find yourself in the middle of a good show, try to roll with it once you get wrapped in it, there was one time before I knew Hawke very well, and he used to call me Satan, because I would spin chairs near him all the time, so we go back and forth about me being some kind of demon or something, and I eventually end up saying something about virgin sacrifices into a volcano, sure that's insane, and there's a lot of ways to respond to that, but Hawke rolls with it and one ups me by saying one of, to date, my favorite lines. "I know a guy who knows a guy who breeds virgins." follow by "I could hook you up.". It's not a common thing to do, but it's a ludicrous example of rolling with something that could be brushed off as just loony or otherwise unremarkable.

 

As a general statement, talk when you're on the job, even if nobody is listening, because sometimes, there's one guy who'll shoot you a reply. Try to type while walking and following people, turn off hotkeys every once in a while and type with the left hand while using your right one to walk, if you don't have a right hand, use the stub, if you don't have a left hand, try your nose, it's pretty precise, or usually is, etc.

 

Make something from the little things even if you feel like you're stale, because I get a laugh every once in a while, and I've been doing the same routine for years now. Good luck, and remember, there's always at least one person who can laugh at your bad jokes, and while it may be yourself, at least it's someone.

 

(PS: For engineering advice or botany, contact Bad Apple for the former and Shellwee for the latter, they can walk AND talk!)