Remove taser electrodes...?

[Jakers457]

Perhaps reducing the stun time to that of a stun prod or leg sweep?

[liran424]

 

What we have now with the hybrid tasers is balanced. Electrodes are slower than disablers (it might not seem so because you use it at point blank range ), don't have infinite range as disablers, drains the shit out of the gun's powercell (meaning you can't spam then and have to be precise, also use it when the antag is "unaware" ).

 

[spoiler2]Most of the arguments for nerfing tasers reminded me of an old question (or maybe because I watched Star Wars just now): "did Han-Solo had a chance to shoot first before the alien could reach to his gun and fire?" and if he did (which he did btw), why does it matter? Han had the upper hand because he was quick on the draw.. and the alien didn't stood a chance because ,apparently, a laser blast to the torso kills you. You see where I`m going with this...[/spoiler2]

 

Edited July 20, 2016 by Guest

[Farya]

Security is nerfed already. Its have nerfed belt and no webbing for example. No need to nerf security more. Honestly security could use some buff but not codewise - rulewise. So much greyshirts like to mock and irritate security and players who play them. They know perfectly that OOC wise they could not be repayed with same treatment in exchange. And its just too long to write a complaint on forum. So shitters could annoy secs as hell unpunished. While IRL police can beat the shit out of you if you annoy them enough.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Guest

[Doukan]

 

Security is nerfed already. Its have nerfed belt and no webbing for example. No need to nerf security more. Honestly security could use some buff but not codewise - rulewise. So much greyshirts like to mock and irritate security and players who play them. They know perfectly that OOC wise they could not be repayed with same treatment in exchange. And its just toolong to write a complaint on forum. So shitters could annoy secs as hell unpunished. While IRL police can beat the shit out of you if you annoy them enough.

If I'm being a nuisance the warden should have every right to swirlie me half to death and break my fingers, anything is better than being put in the naughty corner being bored for 15 minutes.

 

I'm unsure if we have a "behave like an antag get treated like one" clause anywhere since EoC is used for everything these days (it's just like the patriot act, in spaaace!), if sec had better internal oversight instead of relying on the admins to bwoink anyone crossing the line I'd be fine with justified shitcurity.

 

The thing that makes the current stun system not sit well with me more than anything else is that once you're in sec's hands you're probably in for good due to how prisoners are treated, it's not directly related but a different atmosphere in the sec department would go a long way towards electrodes being fine as they are IMO.

 

[GelatinousGlob]

 

There is also doing the reverse of this, instead of nerfing tasers, what if other weapons did more damage? The way I see it if tasers are unbalanced you can either nerf them, remove them, or buff other short range weapons which is basically any melee harm weapon. Increase the damage with spears, glass, knives, toolboxes (or give blunt weapons greater bone breaking but m not sure thats possible) and possibly add more makeshift and melee weapons.

 

What about other medium range weapon possibilities? They would be a bit farther out there but chinese meteor hammers, flails, and others could use a short range projectile code like the taser to do damage, it just won't have the pull back animation. Also medium range makeshift bolas would be cool that could have a real short stun, or medium range boomerangs which could return if thrown short range or lost if thrown far. Yo-yos could be a greytide crappy weapon they use to annoy each other and perhaps traitor yo-yo with spikes? Or a Garrote disguised as a yo-yo. A weighted yo-yo with a chance to knockout or stun with a head shot.

 

Really tasers are in a league of their own. Its pretty bad when you see nuke ops using tasers to stun then shoot people over just shooting people straight. Or where fights completely revolve around disarming whoever has the taser and using it yourself.

 

I think removing the electrode and using only disabler would be interesting because it allows a few moments for someone to retaliate even if it only causes superficial damage.

 

[Doukan]

 

I still want tasers to have a small chance to induce heart attacks/deal a tiny bit of brute damage to simulate hitting the floor.

Might see it being used a bit more situationally, IRL in the UK they're kept in special little lockboxes and everything for those very reasons, though I imagine 25XX edition tasers are a bit more refined it'd be great for them to be more robust without being shitty stun inducers.

 

[Farya]

 

I still want tasers to have a small chance to induce heart attacks/deal a tiny bit of brute damage to simulate hitting the floor.

Might see used a bit more situationally.

Heart attacks would add a bit of realism. And such chance must be increased for people with assisted heart. I think nerfing tasers this way would be better. IRL police can't use tasers unless its necessary. And they obviously can't shoot kids/old people with them.

 

I can even see some situations with antags - undiscovered changeling zapped by taser, changeling fake his death, officer get bwoinked by HoS for accidental murder.

 

[Doukan]

 

Heart attacks would add a bit of realism. And such chance must be increased for people with assisted heart. I think nerfing tasers this way would be better. IRL police can't use tasers unless its necessary. And they obviously can't shoot kids/old people with them.

 

I can even see some situations with antags - undiscovered changeling zapped by taser, changeling fake his death, officer get bwoinked by HoS for accidental murder.

My thoughts exactly.

 

1-5 brute damage when tazed would be nice too, ever seen someone get dropped like that IRL? They never fall gently.

Ideally for me, tasers would stay instastunning with a slight range reduction, officers would spawn in with disablers and more hybrid tasers (4-8?) would be added to the armoury (the one with the barriers not the secure armoury, they aren't lasers) to mark them as more "high risk" and be dished out at blue alert.

 

Little features like that are what make the game so !!fun!!.

 

[Farya]

 

We also might have stand-alone tasers like CM have in code. We could put them into armoury while hybrid tasers would be research weapon. Cargo also still could order them.

 

And I think it would be better to increase heart attack chance when you tase people who is already have stun from electrode to prevent abuse of tasers in such manner. If you want to keep people down - use baton, pepperspray, flash. Would be neat if flash while still not droping people will keep them down if they are flashed while already stunned by other means.

 

Batons could use different work in different intents. Not only harmless stun Help and shitcurity Harm. Well like prode people with baton, hit with baton lightly and robust people with full force.

 

[liran424]

 

And I think it would be better to increase heart attack chance when you tase people who is already have stun from electrode to prevent abuse of tasers in such manner.

 

wut? doesn't it encourage the abuse?

 

[Doukan]

 

wut? doesn't it encourage the abuse?

Officers who did that would have Internal affairs come down on them like a tonne of bricks, HoS and command too.

"death in custody" should probably be added as mitigating factor to space law.

 

[Farya]

 

wut? doesn't it encourage the abuse?

Officers who did that would have Internal affairs come down on them like a tonne of bricks, HoS and command too.

"death in custody" should probably be added as mitigating factor to space law.

There is manslaughter already. But we can probably add "excessive force" law for security members using unadequate means to subdue criminals. Like tazing people on sight during Green or repeatedly batoning people when you can use flash or spray. Beating people who submit or surrender wilingly as well. And Manslaughter/Murder laws could have "unauthorised use of lethal force" modifier - officers will be punished more severe for that crimes.

 

[Shadeykins]

 

I'd personally love to see heart attacks added as a possibility when tased.

 

Certain officers overuse the shit out of tasers and stuns once they have someone down, to the point where it isn't even necessary and is just for being spiteful/dickish.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

I'd personally love to see heart attacks added as a possibility when tased.

 

Certain officers overuse the shit out of tasers and stuns once they have someone down, to the point where it isn't even necessary and is just for being spiteful/dickish.

I'd be willing to try this.

 

[Coldflame]

tasers immediately become the best lethal option in sec's arsenal

[Spacemanspark]

 

I'd rather sec have lethals instead of instastun.

Mostly because they have to moderate that shit, or they have IAA or admins on their ass about it.

Whereas instastun they can just go "Fuck you and your round"

 

[Kluys]

 

Soooooo heres my small post on this whole subject after skimming over it (I am a busy man ok)

I think the main issue here is people that feel like tasers are OP against normal crewmembers, Yes, They are. Security isn't your enemy, the antags are. if you don't commit crimes security being on your arse won't be that common. If you do commit crimes it is your choise to get your ass handed to you.

 

Trust me when I say this, nerfing security isn't a good idea, improving the behavior of certain security players is. I've seen the effects of nerfing myself. It doesn't just affect the behavior of security officers. Back then when the nerf was in place we would have players who were technically within the rules but who were constantly causing shit on the station every single shift. They were to robust for most sec officers to catch, usually relied on makeshift stuff to be a littlebit stronger and only caused shit in an unfunny way. (not so much slippy proxmine in the closet as much as it was disarming a sec officer and stealing all their shit every shift)

 

[Vivalas]

 

That's pretty much my thoughts whenever someone complains about sec being "OP" when they're not an antag. They're supposed to be OP vs. normal crew. If they can't even handle simple shitters easily, it defeats the purpose of them existing entirely. Nerfing security will just cause officers to find even more drastic measures to defend themselves.

 

I do like the heart attack/ brute damage idea though. Both as incentive for officers to not use tazers as a first option, and as an incentive for people not to greytide. It should be made VERY clear though that if someone suffers a heart attack due to a tazer after being given ample warning and other nonlethal options have been employed, it is entirely the fault of the offender, not the officer.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

tasers immediately become the best lethal option in sec's arsenal

 

Invariably it's also going to lead to perfectly valid arrests suddenly turning into lethal ones because the Great Dice in the Sky said "fuck you".

 

I'd also rather not hear someone screaming over comms about "Shitcurity, taser! Dying, heart attack!" just because it procced the heart attack. People already have enough of an excuse to be shit to security (whether they deserve it or not), I'd rather not give *actual* legitimacy to this attitude when sec does otherwise legitimate takedowns.

 

[Spacemanspark]

Then use the disabler mode and you won't have any issues.

[Coldflame]

'make tasers kill people' is not distinct from 'remove tasers'.

[davidchan]

 

I can understand the desire for tasers dealing minor burns and potential heart attacks, but it's just such a bad idea in practice.

 

If the heart attack isn't instantly lethal, sec has no means to check for internal heart damage aside from oxyloss caused by it, and even if they don't assume you're faking it, security doesn't give a shit what your injuries are many a times I've been brigged/perma'd or found people in the brig/perma with broken bones, skulls, internal organ damage and other potentially fatal injuries. Security doesn't care, hell they prefer it if you're in soft crit because then you can't move and cause problems and they'll let you bleed out slowly before throwing your corpse out the door once your time is up.

 

Security barely thinks twice as it is when spamming a taser to take out one person, think of how many times you've been hit by a stray electrode when someone it yakity saxing past you. Now imagine if that annoying stun had a potentially lethal side to it, and how much salt it's going to generate as the sec players will insist it was a valid if regrettable kill because you were in the way (despite standing perfectly still before they even showed up.)