Game mode changes

[kabumpe]

 

Hi, Im here to address an issue that has probably been brought up several times before, but since I havent seen any of them I figured Id give it a try.

 

So as it is Im often reluctant to play SS13 because I feel like its sort of a gamble for whether or not the round will be fun. The reason for this is how the game modes are handled, which I personally think is not very well optimized at all for the whole idea behind the game.

 

Look at it this way, from my experience the majority of the rounds are stealth-type rounds, which are basically the same, but with flavor between changeling, traitor and vampire, even if its not the majority my point stands. None of those roles are particularly op from the get go as far as viability goes, which means you have to be smart and careful about it, and if you are unluck you get dealt with extremely quickly. So almost always a portion of the antagonists get taken out within the first 20 minutes of the round, this happens not only because people get unlucky, spotted by the AI or a crewmember and such, but also because you dont get antagonist roles very often so you dont practice too much with them. That then leads into a rather pointless remainder of the round, since nearly every antagonist, if not all, has been taken out. Of course, theres always tracking that last antagonist down if there is one, but that most of the times turns into a rather drawn out and dull game of cat and mouse, where they usually fuck off into space or dont even reveal themselves at all.

 

Now this situation I find to be extremely negative for the working of the game, because at that point there is very little purpose to a great number of jobs. Security basically just stands around or beats on a random greytide, which since the server went unlisted is basically gone, medical has no one to cure or clone, engineering has no explosions, sabotage or hacking to fix, and so on. It effectively turns into a game of 'wait for the shuttle' while you stand idle or walk around the station in search of something to do.

 

This same point brings up a second argument, which is the viability of Extended as a game mode. Im well aware that its supposed to be an 'RP game mode' but in reality, thats not what it is, its a sit idly and hope something random happens game mode. Its even only a viable game mode for part of the jobs, as I stated before, there is a great amount of jobs that have a reactionary nature, mainly security but they come in many shapes. If you have nothing happening in the round other than the station functioning normally, then there is nothing for them to do. And sure, there is always the argument 'you should go out and RP' but theres only so much you can do in the game, its not that flexible and 50 minutes of RP content is hard to find. Moreover I personally believe that goes against the nature of the game, its supposed to be survive in space station 13 and theres nothing that factors towards that in extended. The point of the professions in the game isnt doing their normal thing, its not getting your occasional person drunk as the bartender, its trying to defend your bar against a crazed cultist invasion. Its not completing your RnD in 5 minutes, its providing useful and essential equipment against serious threats.

 

Going into a more direct approach, I personally think the game modes should be rebalanced so theres less boring idle and more activity on the station. No one likes to walk around the station aimlessly hoping a greytider breaks a window as a security officer, its boring, no matter how you try to argue about RP. This isnt a pure RP game, it has mechanics that are vital for it to function. And sure, theres a ton of people that argue that they often dont want to deal with antagonists and stuff, and just want to do their own thing. But nothing stops you from doing that in the majority of the rounds, because stealth rounds HARDLY EVER -force- you into breaking from your normal job. You can do as much RnD, mining and stuff, on most rounds, excluding Blob, Nuke Ops and Cult, even with Aliens if you want, as long as theyre not nesting in your department.

 

Ive once seen someone say 'People who dislike extended are people who need constant entertainment and activity' Isnt that the whole point of playing a game? Entertaining yourself? Ideally you want to have a steady rythm of entertaining activity, rather than waiting 20-40 minutes in between.

 

Onto my actual suggestions now that Ive written an essay about this. Id suggesting shifting Extended into an admin forced game mode, in the case they want to do something special. That way, if people really want an extended round they could ask for a vote. I know that is a rather drastic measure, so I have a second suggestion, make extended visible when it gets rolled. I relate to this a lot because I mainly play security officers, but I guarantee you its the case with a great number of jobs. You shouldnt be forced to waste a round worth of your time looking around the station for evil doers because the game mode rolled extended and you dont know. Keep every game mode hidden except extened, make a message saying its extended when it gets rolled. Additionally, I beg you guys to do this atleast for a -test-, just make it visible for a little while, and see if people continue to play on extended or if everyon leaves. See what percentage of the playerbase actually LIKES extended, I know I could be wrong but I think a great majority of the players dont like it.

 

I would also suggest increasing the proportion of antagonists that spawn, there are several reasons for this. First is that the great majority of the rounds fizzle out because the antags had no idea what they were doing and get taken out super early, then you spend the rest of the shift in extended mode. This way people get to practice their antagonists more often and gain more experience. The second reason is that it increases the interactibility of the rounds, when you get 3-4 traitors its basically a sec round. You get a handful of people who get to interact with the antags for a little bit and thats it. If you increased the number then the crew would have a bigger part on it, there would be more people to catch, sec would be harder instead of steamrolling the antags, and people would have an opportunity to participate in the game mode IF THEY WANT. The key is -IF THEY WANT- because you still would be effectively exempt of the stealth round antags unless you want to get involved with them. There would still be a small amount of targets, and an even smaller chance that your assassin can actually take you out of the game. Dont want to deal with antags? Lock yourself in your office and do your job. Meanwhile people who like to be part of the action would have a better chance of helping out. Id suggest atleast doubling the number of antags, preferably two and half, three times, but that might be overboard for you guys.

 

Lastly, this is something that is mechanically more complicated but its a much less drastic change compared to the other two, and I think its absolutely essential. Make rounds end when the antags die/get borged, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. As I stated above, MOST of the time you take out the antags rather quickly and then its extended for the last of the shift. Stealth game modes arent traitor, changeling, vamp, theyre half traitor, half extended. There NEEDS to be some sort of mechanic for the round to end when the antags are gone. Even if its just when theyre all dead simultaneously, that would help tremendously, please consider this, PLEASE.

 

Lastly, Id just like to say that I love this game and Im writing this because I want to play it even more than I already do, and I want to keep on playing it for much longer. I think this would make the game more fun for everyone, including the people who like chill RP rounds that I find horribly and utterly boring. This gives a better chance to have fun for -everyone-.

 

Thank you for reading everything. Also, if there has been a poll about this before I sincerely hope you guys take this as an opportunity to review it and see if things changed or not. Or atleast try to implement some of the ideas. I really think theyre essential.

 

[liran424]

 

now that Ive written an essay about this.

 

If I were your teacher I would give you an A+.

 

But seriously you have some good points and some bad points... you even put them in nice little paragraphs. I`ll expand on this tomorrow. mainly commented to bump

 

[kabumpe]

 

now that Ive written an essay about this.

 

If I were your teacher I would give you an A+.

 

But seriously you have some good points and some bad points... you even put them in nice little paragraphs. I`ll expand on this tomorrow. mainly commented to bump

 

Eheheh, thanks

 

[liran424]

 

Look at it this way, from my experience the majority of the rounds are stealth-type rounds, which are basically the same, but with flavor between changeling, traitor and vampire, even if its not the majority my point stands. None of those roles are particularly op from the get go as far as viability goes, which means you have to be smart and careful about it, and if you are unluck you get dealt with extremely quickly. So almost always a portion of the antagonists get taken out within the first 20 minutes of the round, this happens not only because people get unlucky, spotted by the AI or a crewmember and such, but also because you dont get antagonist roles very often so you dont practice too much with them. That then leads into a rather pointless remainder of the round, since nearly every antagonist, if not all, has been taken out. Of course, theres always tracking that last antagonist down if there is one, but that most of the times turns into a rather drawn out and dull game of cat and mouse, where they usually fuck off into space or dont even reveal themselves at all.

 

the majority of the rounds are stealth type rounds because they have higher chance of accruing unlike Cult, nuke ops, and wizard that are in Low Priority Queue. The main reason for that is mainly because stealth type rounds are more "easy-er" for the player compared with what's in the Low Priority Queue. As you stated "you don't get to be antag very often so you don't have much practice with them" and you're right about that, but you're not right about being "unlucky"... stealth rounds encourage the antag to think before acting, to plan out his objectives and most importantly timing (as in wait for the right moment and don't just blitz your objectives). Because most players don't have much practice with antagoning, stealth rounds don't have much pressure on the antag as much as lets say... nuke ops, if you don't have idea in what you're doing... or suppose to do you pretty much screwed (mostly) the entire operation. But in stealth rounds.. if you screw something up, you (sometimes) get a second chance.

 

Now this situation I find to be extremely negative for the working of the game, because at that point there is very little purpose to a great number of jobs. Security basically just stands around or beats on a random greytide, which since the server went unlisted is basically gone, medical has no one to cure or clone, engineering has no explosions, sabotage or hacking to fix, and so on. It effectively turns into a game of 'wait for the shuttle' while you stand idle or walk around the station in search of something to do.

 

This same point brings up a second argument, which is the viability of Extended as a game mode. Im well aware that its supposed to be an 'RP game mode' but in reality, thats not what it is, its a sit idly and hope something random happens game mode. Its even only a viable game mode for part of the jobs, as I stated before, there is a great amount of jobs that have a reactionary nature, mainly security but they come in many shapes. If you have nothing happening in the round other than the station functioning normally, then there is nothing for them to do. And sure, there is always the argument 'you should go out and RP' but theres only so much you can do in the game, its not that flexible and 50 minutes of RP content is hard to find. Moreover I personally believe that goes against the nature of the game, its supposed to be survive in space station 13 and theres nothing that factors towards that in extended. The point of the professions in the game isnt doing their normal thing, its not getting your occasional person drunk as the bartender, its trying to defend your bar against a crazed cultist invasion. Its not completing your RnD in 5 minutes, its providing useful and essential equipment against serious threats.

 

Not true (maybe on low pop but that's another story). security aimlessly patrols the halls and maint until they decide that cargo exists and order those annoying JUSTICE HELMS. science finishes research in 15 minutes, fabricates tons of upgrade parts in 5 minutes and then goes on an upgrading spree of the station. medical just do drugs medical goes to the bar or starts working on rare chemicals. engineering raids maint and if they're in the mood they go on space adventures. and there are much more.

 

 

Going into a more direct approach, I personally think the game modes should be rebalanced so theres less boring idle and more activity on the station. No one likes to walk around the station aimlessly hoping a greytider breaks a window as a security officer, its boring, no matter how you try to argue about RP. This isnt a pure RP game, it has mechanics that are vital for it to function. And sure, theres a ton of people that argue that they often dont want to deal with antagonists and stuff, and just want to do their own thing. But nothing stops you from doing that in the majority of the rounds, because stealth rounds HARDLY EVER -force- you into breaking from your normal job. You can do as much RnD, mining and stuff, on most rounds, excluding Blob, Nuke Ops and Cult, even with Aliens if you want, as long as theyre not nesting in your department.

 

As you said earlier. "you don't get to be antag very often so you don't have much practice with them"... well what did you expect? vampires going on a rampage? traitors buying 2 E-swords and going yolo? there's a reason we categorized them as stealth rounds. Blob, nuke ops, malf AI.... basically gamemodes that are in Low Priority Queue require the crew to change their normal routine in order to save the station from these threats while vampires or changelings are mainly security concern.

 

Id suggesting shifting Extended into an admin forced game mode, in the case they want to do something special. That way, if people really want an extended round they could ask for a vote. I know that is a rather drastic measure, so I have a second suggestion, make extended visible when it gets rolled. I relate to this a lot because I mainly play security officers, but I guarantee you its the case with a great number of jobs. You shouldnt be forced to waste a round worth of your time looking around the station for evil doers because the game mode rolled extended and you dont know. Keep every game mode hidden except extened, make a message saying its extended when it gets rolled. Additionally, I beg you guys to do this atleast for a -test-, just make it visible for a little while, and see if people continue to play on extended or if everyone leaves. See what percentage of the playerbase actually LIKES extended, I know I could be wrong but I think a great majority of the players don't like it.

 

Extended has it ups and down... I don't really.. have a solid opinion on it. shifting it into an admin forced gamemode is a good idea but I'm not an admin, so they'll have to give their opinion on the matter. In my opinion we should add an "event" option in the 2 hour mark vote that starts an event (xeno infestation, nuke ops, blob, rev) but it's a secret so nobody knows what it is.

 

I would also suggest increasing the proportion of antagonists that spawns.

 

there will always be 5 antags in each round. because low pop (10-39 people on the server)... and another reason that eluded me.

 

Lastly, this is something that is mechanically more complicated but its a much less drastic change compared to the other two, and I think its absolutely essential. Make rounds end when the antags die/get borged, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. As I stated above, MOST of the time you take out the antags rather quickly and then its extended for the last of the shift. Stealth game modes arent traitor, changeling, vamp, theyre half traitor, half extended. There NEEDS to be some sort of mechanic for the round to end when the antags are gone. Even if its just when theyre all dead simultaneously, that would help tremendously, please consider this, PLEASE.

 

Encourages valid-hunting.

 

[kabumpe]

 

the majority of the rounds are stealth type rounds because they have higher chance of accruing unlike Cult, nuke ops, and wizard that are in Low Priority Queue. The main reason for that is mainly because stealth type rounds are more "easy-er" for the player compared with what's in the Low Priority Queue. As you stated "you don't get to be antag very often so you don't have much practice with them" and you're right about that, but you're not right about being "unlucky"... stealth rounds encourage the antag to think before acting, to plan out his objectives and most importantly timing (as in wait for the right moment and don't just blitz your objectives). Because most players don't have much practice with antagoning, stealth rounds don't have much pressure on the antag as much as lets say... nuke ops, if you don't have idea in what you're doing... or suppose to do you pretty much screwed (mostly) the entire operation. But in stealth rounds.. if you screw something up, you (sometimes) get a second chance.

 

 

Luck does often play a major factor, Ive more than once gotten busted because someone happened to waltz in at a critical moment, or you could get picked for a random search, the AI could be staring at you the exact moment you decide to drag that one person into maint, amongs other things.

 

Not true (maybe on low pop but that's another story). security aimlessly patrols the halls and maint until they decide that cargo exists and order those annoying JUSTICE HELMS. science finishes research in 15 minutes, fabricates tons of upgrade parts in 5 minutes and then goes on an upgrading spree of the station. medical just do drugs medical goes to the bar or starts working on rare chemicals. engineering raids maint and if they're in the mood they go on space adventures. and there are much more.

 

Most jobs can get their job stuff done very quickly when compared to the duration of the round, even things like complicated chemicals and upgrading every single machine on the station. Not only that, as someone who has play SS13 quite a bit, take upgrading the whole station, making every possible chem, for one round, two, then five, then ten, then fifty. Do you see my point? The base job mechanics dont offer that much depth of content, even the ones more creative like grenade testing.

 

 

As you said earlier. "you don't get to be antag very often so you don't have much practice with them"... well what did you expect? vampires going on a rampage? traitors buying 2 E-swords and going yolo? there's a reason we categorized them as stealth rounds. Blob, nuke ops, malf AI.... basically gamemodes that are in Low Priority Queue require the crew to change their normal routine in order to save the station from these threats while vampires or changelings are mainly security concern.

 

 

I dont think you got what I meant, Im talking about extended and post-antag stealth rounds.

 

Extended has it ups and down... I don't really.. have a solid opinion on it. shifting it into an admin forced gamemode is a good idea but I'm not an admin, so they'll have to give their opinion on the matter. In my opinion we should add an "event" option in the 2 hour mark vote that starts an event (xeno infestation, nuke ops, blob, rev) but it's a secret so nobody knows what it is.

 

 

I think this is very nice idea, but Id say it should happen earlier as I dont think Ive seen any extended rounds reach the 2h mark. Not on this server.

 

 

there will always be 5 antags in each round. because low pop (10-39 people on the server)... and another reason that eluded me.

 

 

Thats what Im saying, change the system so theres more antags per population bracket, of course scaling it so you dont get absurd half the crew is traitor rounds. I dont know the exact numbers or how the system works, so I cant give a suggestion on the number.

 

Encourages valid-hunting.

 

I dont think this is a valid reason to not do that. Every antag has to deal with valid hunting constantly no matter what. Its not because the round doesnt end that valid hunting happens less, because people continue to valid hunt exactly as much until the shuttle docks. They dont know if there are antags left or not, so they always valid hunt, its a reality and something that is part of playing SS13 at this point, and should be dealt with adminstratively, not leaving a mechanic on that is detrimental to the entirety of the crew because it should decrease valid hunting in theory, when it doesnt even do that. In short, there isnt a decrease in valid hunting because people dont know whether theres antags left or not.

 

Even if there -was- an increase in valid hunting it would certainly not be too major and I strongly feel it would be absolutely worth it to have more dynamic and satisfying rounds. After all, if you get valid hunted right now, you get pissed off because you finally got antag and you got fucked by some scrub. If you get valid hunted after the changes, it will have significantly less impact since you will be getting antags more often and more fun rounds in.

 

Anyways, thanks for the reply, its nice to have some activity here.