Armored Vests and Coats

[Rurik]

 

I propose that most of all armored vests, such as Bulletproof and Security vests be able to be attached to coats/jackets, or vise versa, while still retaining the benefit of the armored vest. This would mean that, for example, a detective can wear his trench coat and his armor in conjunction with each other, in the same slot. The main purpose of this is for cosmetics and the ability to hide armor vests under some types of coats/jackets. From a practical perspective, it also does not make much sense to not be able to wear a armor vest and a coat over it.

 

Of course, armored vests wouldn't be able to be attached to armored coats/jackets as that would be stacking armor values. Armored vests would also not be able to be attached to any sort of exosuit such as hardsuits or space suits. The reason why armored vests would attached to jackets/coats and not be able to be attached to jumpsuits is because then somebody could wear another armored vest or coat over a armored vest; Thus stacking armor. For some armored vests, such as Ablative or captains carapace, would be entirely up to you peoples as I can see how that may be a balance issue.

 

Please let me know if there are possible issues with this idea, why you disagree/agree with it, etc.

 

[Dumbdumn5]

I'm voting yes, as I think this feature would add a bit of style and some cool undercover cop such and such, as well as letting civvies try to hide a bit of armor, or maybe giving antags a way to conceal it if it were stolen. The problem I can see with it, however, is usage of already armored jackets and coats and stacking the protection values, assuming the armor would simply add to, not overwrite the protection variables already on the jacket/coat.

[saywat_the_15th]

 

Damn phones :^)

 

Vote accidentally went to no, soz.

 

[Coldflame]

 

 

this would be cool as shit, but it should only be available for cosmetic outerwear (lawyer gear and such)- should probably also appear on a shiftclick

 

[Farya]

 

Yes, its cool. Also make it possible to wear armour over biosuit(at least security one) and emergency firesuit like on goons. It would be very visible obviously.

 

And we could just remove armour values from amoured jackets to balance this out - you either wear armour under it or not.

 

UPD.

I dont think we should allow to wear any armour BUT standart vest underneath other clothes. Only basic vest look small enough to be hidden under clothes... somewhat. You still can see the vest under some unbuttoned jackets or get some message one examine. "It seems there is something inder his labcoat" We could also probably add RnD/uplink stealth armour vest - thin vest of armour you can attach to your jumpsuit or wear under exosuit to get some hidden armour values.

 

 

 

UPD2.

can we make shoulder holster of BS and detective to not show up on examine when wearing closed jackets and longcoats? It would make sense actually.

 

[Rurik]

Yeah I figured that this feature would be incompatible with any sort of jacket/coat that gives bonus and is not purely cosmetic, such as the HoS's armored coat or the Warden's armored jacket. Also as Coldflame and Farya mentioned, it should also mention something of the sort on examination. Furthermore, a stealth armored vest which Farya mentioned could be a pretty cool idea.

[Fox McCloud]

 

It also means that you're conveniently able to get a ton of extra protection, for free, just because you're wearing a coat.

 

DZD did extensive math on this, and it's a ridiculously huge additional advantage, to the degree that you have to dramatically nerf armor stats for it to be balanced against vests.

 

[Rurik]

 

It also means that you're conveniently able to get a ton of extra protection, for free, just because you're wearing a coat.

 

DZD did extensive math on this, and it's a ridiculously huge additional advantage, to the degree that you have to dramatically nerf armor stats for it to be balanced against vests.

 

A bit confused by what you mean here. You know a lot more about this then I do, but from how I see it there is no difference between having a armored vest or a armored vest and a unarmored coat, except cosmetics. Does every coat/jacket have armor values? I assumed most did not unless it said so in the description upon examination.

 

If that is the case, and every coat/jacket has armor values, then this theoretically can be circumvented by the highest armor value always overwriting the other smaller values, thus eliminating stacking armor values. Of Which, I assume, the highest armor value would always be the vest.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

Every single piece of clothing in the game has some sort of armor value, no matter how minute it may be. Depending on what coat you are using, the cumulative armor values can go anywhere between just what the vest offers (in case of unarmored clothing) to hilariously broken super-armor (in case of anything Security can use as coats).

 

And if the higher armor value is to overwrite the lower one, not only would that kinda miss the point on having two layers of protection, but would also require some heavy snowflaking if you want to have it overwrite just SOME items.

 

[Rurik]

 

Every single piece of clothing in the game has some sort of armor value, no matter how minute it may be. Depending on what coat you are using, the cumulative armor values can go anywhere between just what the vest offers (in case of unarmored clothing) to hilariously broken super-armor (in case of anything Security can use as coats).

 

And if the higher armor value is to overwrite the lower one, not only would that kinda miss the point on having two layers of protection, but would also require some heavy snowflaking if you want to have it overwrite just SOME items.

 

I see the issue, now. Do you see any way to possibly circumventing this problem without heavy snowflake code? Only way I see to possibly circumvent this is make the feature be incompatible with armored coats to prevent broken armor values. However that sounds easier said then done I wager.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

 

That was the snowflaking I was referring to. Most coats are, code-wise, included in the same category, and the only values that change are the armor ones. You would have to individually disallow the use of these vest underlays for each individual piece of armored clothing.

 

Granted, there are not THAT many of them, but its still a bit of a sloppy implementation that falls a bit short of maintenance guidelines. It would be easier if "armored" coats were a separate category of clothing altogether, but, to the best of my knowledge, they are not, so a blanket "no vests here" would simply not work.

 

[Rurik]

 

That was the snowflaking I was referring to. Most coats are, code-wise, included in the same category, and the only values that change are the armor ones. You would have to individually disallow the use of these vest underlays for each individual piece of armored clothing.

 

Granted, there are not THAT many of them, but its still a bit of a sloppy implementation that falls a bit short of maintenance guidelines. It would be easier if "armored" coats were a separate category of clothing altogether, but, to the best of my knowledge, they are not, so a blanket "no vests here" would simply not work.

 

I see, in that case it would appear there is no way get around it without some sort of snowflake code. I had hoped that this possible feature would of been easier to code, but it looks that is not the case. Thanks for the insight.

 

[TullyBBurnalot]

I mean, that said, most armored clothing offers decent protection against most damage types, and even specialized bulletproof armor offers some Stab Vest-style protection. Its all about knowing when to break out what.

[FlattestGuitar]

Adding to what Tully said, it would be impossible to implement this without completely overhauling the system for armor. You can't have armor values only on some of the limbs that a suit covers. It's all or nothing.

[Rurik]

 

Adding to what Tully said, it would be impossible to implement this without completely overhauling the system for armor. You can't have armor values only on some of the limbs that a suit covers. It's all or nothing.

 

I do not think that armor values for only some of the limbs is needed or necessary at all. The main goal for this idea is to let some types of armor vests be hidden under some types coats/jackets as well as the cosmetic look of having, say, a trench coat and a body armor vest at the same time. That's it, as for intended goals.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

Well, if you put your vest underneath a coat, your arms don't get magically covered with armor.

 

One of the problems we had to work out when I was adding the security jacket was the random chance of hitting an arm instead of the torso, making a jacket that has armored arms, but the same armor values a much more powerful part of the security arsenal.

 

You can't just ignore something like this, I'm afraid.

 

[Rurik]

 

Well, if you put your vest underneath a coat, your arms don't get magically covered with armor.

 

One of the problems we had to work out when I was adding the security jacket was the random chance of hitting an arm instead of the torso, making a jacket that has armored arms, but the same armor values a much more powerful part of the security arsenal.

 

You can't just ignore something like this, I'm afraid.

 

If thats the case, then it would seem not only would there need to be snowflake coding to prevent absurd armor values, but the armor system would also need to be completely revamped?

 

If that is the case the coding and the work that would need to be done may be starting to outweigh the benefits.

 

[Farya]

 

Maybewe can just remove armour values from coats alltogether or just make them the same civilian clothes have? In case of HoS coat HoS could just start with speshul HoS armour vest worn under the coat. Maybe SWAT styled or something.

 

And honestly its ridiculous that some coat with armour plates inserted provide more protection then some armoured hardsuits without slowing down at all. And HoS have three such coats.