Gift of the Free man. (Scientist specific traitor item)

[Lorenzo_The_Marauder]

 

Alright, so i was thinking about a potential new chaplain weapon and figured that it would see more action as a traitor item.

 

Basically it would be a reskinned crowbar (not a pocket crowbar, like the one in robotics) That deals extra damage against all roles that start the shift with a loyalty implant, blueshield, captain, officers, HoS etc. And reduced damage against anyone else.

 

Large crowbar deals 12 damage by default

Damage against security could be triple = 36

Damage against anyone else could be half = 6

 

I did some testing to see roughly how many hits it would take to kill someone, depending on who you're attacking.

All tests were done using human mobs, which were hit in the chest until the death message popped up.

 

Against Non loyalty-implanted crewmembers = 42 hits

Default crowbar = 22 hits

Against mplanted crewmembers(Test was done with an npc wearing sec officer gear including the uniform and vest) = 12 hits (9 hits without the vest and uniform)

 

For comparison, against unarmored (human) targets aiming for the chest. It took approximately:

 

Esword = 11 hits

Double Esword = 8 hits

Sleeping Carp = 22 hits

Captain's Rapier = 18 hits

Meat Cleaver = 10 hits

Katana = 7 hits

Fireaxe = 53 hits

Fireaxe [wielded] = 13 hits

 

Coding difficulty? just add a different flavor text. Code the dynamic damage system, add it to the traitor uplink. I don't know EXACTLY how hard this would be to implement, but it's not nearly the scale of say lavaland or moderate map changes.

 

Why this would be a good idea to add? It's a stealthy alternative to an energy sword, it discourages murderboning, and it forces everyone involved to think of different ways to approach the situation. The amount of TC or other details can be discussed and revised as needed.

 

 

The "hits to kill" numbers are apparently all inaccurate, i'm leaving them up just to provide a /barely/ accurate comparison between the different weapons.

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Guest

[Lorenzo_The_Marauder]

 

Currently, more testing is being preformed. This post will be updated with the new numbers to ensure an accurate estimate.

 

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Second round of testing: Humans (No armor)

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Strengthened Crowbar = 10 hits

Weakened Crowbar = 43 hits

Default Crowbar = 21 hits

Esword = 9 hits

Double Esword = 7 hits

Sleeping Carp = 20 hits

Captain's Rapier = 17 hits

Meat Cleaver = 10 hits

Katana = 6 hits

Fireaxe = 52 hits

Fireaxe [wielded] = 11 hits

 

[Sothangel]

Could be a good addition. Not sure how much it should cost, but it suits the role well and doesn't seem like it'll be a go-to thing.

[DayZ Me Trolling]

 

Oh man, I can't wait to be three hit by a traitor using a crowbar :>)

 

On a more serious note, if your crowbar was to do 36 damage per hit on implanted crew members, that would take three hits to get them to 0HP and crit them. I don't see that viable my man.

 

[counterfeitguise]

 

Oh man, I can't wait to be three hit by a traitor using a crowbar :>)

On a more serious note, if your crowbar was to do 36 damage per hit on implanted crew members, that would take three hits to get them to 0HP and crit them. I don't see that viable my man.

 

Against implanted crewmembers (Test was done with an npc wearing sec officer gear including the uniform and vest) = 12 hits (9 hits without the vest and uniform)

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[DayZ Me Trolling]

 

Oh man, I can't wait to be three hit by a traitor using a crowbar :>)

On a more serious note, if your crowbar was to do 36 damage per hit on implanted crew members, that would take three hits to get them to 0HP and crit them. I don't see that viable my man.

 

Against implanted crewmembers (Test was done with an npc wearing sec officer gear including the uniform and vest) = 12 hits (9 hits without the vest and uniform)

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

It was specifically stated that it should do 36 damage versus implanted members, that isn't 12 hits to crit someone, I may be wrong here please do correct if I am.

 

[FlattestGuitar]

 

I just want to point out, the values are completely off here.

 

The way force is calculated on our codebase will sometimes vary thanks to the max damage values on different limbs. As far as I'm aware, often times the damage won't overflow properly, making an item deal less damage than it should.

 

While in practice this means that you'll need more hits to actually down someone, I'd suggest using pure force values for theorizing here.

 

[Lorenzo_The_Marauder]

Pure force? What am i doing wrong here?

[FlattestGuitar]

 

You need 150 damage to ensure a person dies.

 

You quoted your crowbar as killing a person in 10 hits, while dealing 36 damage per hit. I'm assuming you didn't account for oxyloss, as that'd be incredibly hard to do.

 

Even if take a look at a 200 damage model, the number is theoretically at around 6 hits, not counting the completely random offset, which shouldn't be taken into account at all with a sample this small.

 

So, yeah, I'd just look at the code and use the values provided by the code. For the crowbar, that means a kill in 5 hits.

 

[DayZ Me Trolling]

Yeah, that is what I was trying to get to, you did a better job at explaining it than I did. But if it's a 5 hit kill, it should crit around 3 hits, and that's not really balanced.

[improvedname]

But why would you ever buy a crowbar that can cause major damage on implanted crew but esword does it job better plus its for everyone and more reliable

[Sothangel]

Because the point is it is targeted - Less visibility (It's just a crowbar) but more damage against specific people.

[improvedname]

This will make people just paranoid near crowbars

[Lorenzo_The_Marauder]

Shit, is it a good idea at least? If it's worth continuing to work on then i'll need some help tweaking the values/effects/price Etc.

[FlattestGuitar]

 

I like the idea.

 

Maybe not the execution here, as it's kinda weird, but dealing more damage to security and less damage to non-security would be interesting.

 

[Lorenzo_The_Marauder]

If you have any suggestions, please write them down here so i can remember what was and wasn't discussed. A lot of people seem to like this idea and a LOT of people have some pretty good ideas for this.

[scrubmcnoob]

 

Seems a bit broken and overpowered imo.

I think 4 hits will crit some one with 36 damage each hit.

 

Idea is bland to be honest.

It's just a crowbar that does more damage against loyalty implanted people. What is interesting about that? Just to kill more people?

And may I ask why a crowbar? I don't see much of a symbolic value from a crowbar in regards to the science division. Maybe have something plasma related?

I'm all for another traitor specific science item but maybe something that doesn't do 36 damage for such a concealable item? That is a ton of damage for a pocket crowbar.

 

[Dinarzad]

 

And may I ask why a crowbar? I don't see much of a symbolic value from a crowbar in regards to the science division

 

I think it's a Half Life/Gordon Freeman meme/pun/joke.

And it's against loyalty implanted people because pick up that can.

 

[Desolate]

Just going to state.. scientist only antag item? I'm pretty sure science doesn't need more ways to Powe game than they already have.

[Lorenzo_The_Marauder]

 

Just going to state.. scientist only antag item? I'm pretty sure science doesn't need more ways to Powe game than they already have.

 

I meant this as an alternative to memechems and such. The values and other functions of this item are nowhere near "final" So if you've got a better idea then lay it on me.

 

[Lorenzo_The_Marauder]

 

I'm all for another traitor specific science item but maybe something that doesn't do 36 damage for such a concealable item? That is a ton of damage for a pocket crowbar.

 

And it's not a pocket crowbar, it's a /crowbar/large. Only two are on the station, and they aren't exactly "tracked"

 

You can't equip it anywhere, even your belt slot. The idea is that it's just a strong crowbar Ala half life, it's either in your backpack or in the skull of a security officer. Again, NOTHING save for the general idea is final, if you have a better idea than to scrap it by all means lay it on me.

 

[counterfeitguise]

 

maybe not scientist specific. people will always use memechems when given the chance. or they'll use it in conjunction with memechems.

 

it can be sorta like the hungry toolbox, maybe. that much damage needs a very heavy con minus it being unconcealed.

 

[improvedname]

But a force like 43 or 36 can gaurantee a bone break plus with steakth too since it looks like a normal crowbar

[Farya]

Better give it slightly better damage for everyone, chance of bleeding and ability to slowly force powered airlocks for a very short time(especialy when AI shorten timer). Its full length red crowbar after all. But forcing attempt have a chance of failure and crowbar itself fit only in backpack. critical failure with forcing could be fun too. crowbar slips out and you hit yourself with it.

[improvedname]

 

Better give it slightly better damage for everyone, chance of bleeding and ability to slowly force powered airlocks for a very short time(especialy when AI shorten timer). Its full length red crowbar after all. But forcing attempt have a chance of failure and crowbar itself fit only in backpack. critical failure with forcing could be fun too. crowbar slips out and you hit yourself with it.

 

Yet it be better if it just forces bolted doors open

 

Then just being a deadly as fuck weapon against sec/command high force means higher knockdown rate and bone breaking if you target the right spot you can make your target helpless like targetting his hands for EX:I attack a officer first hit hits his hand it breaks because he has to react fast he draws a weapon in whatever hand is active and drops it if the broken hand is active

 

Altough i would be up for a large crowbar that forces open bolted doors as traitor item with chance of failure it sounds like a cool idea

 

Altough if we gonna add this can we make the sprite look like a little bigger then normal crowbars

And maybe with the red stripe in the middle